Checked alignment yesterday

Nice! 

So here's a question: Does he align the rear and if so just how? My read is the back wants a little bit of toe-OUT (not IN, as on the front), and--on IRS units anyway--there is some provision for camber as well. But my alignment guys scratched their heads when confronted with it & I could not help them.

Now, I've seen Samba-ites speak of elongating the slots in the torsion arms and/or stuffing shims up in there. But that does not seem right to me.

What say you?

I've never done anything about rear wheel alignment.  I have read that nothing is required but I don't know.  My alignment didn't mention the rear however it was checked against the specs as mirrors were mounted on the rears just like the fronts and was within limits.  Seems I've read that some bugs rear wheels were set at the factory and couldn't be adjusted ---don't quote me on that--I just don't know and hope we hear from someone here who does.  I do kinow my car goes straight down the road hands off, if it's a flat road and the steering wheel has no sign of any wobble---just solid as anything. I haven't driven many other Speedsters but none I've driven compares with mine as far as driveability, smooth ride and steering like it was on tracks.  You are welcome to drive mine if you see me at Carlisle.

I do know that my rear tires with about 7,000 miles on them look brand new and still have the rubber tits on the edges. 

My rear torsion arms do have slotted holes.. good thing too as the guy I bought my car from was going to part it out originally and when he put it back together to sell to me there was about a two inch difference in wheel base from one side to another.. Thought I must have purchased something that hit a nasty curb or some other mishap. The torsion arms are adjustable at least on an IRS set up. Cant speak for Swing axles

Jack- What was the caster?

Yeah, I was wondering about his Caster, too.

Ed wrote:  "

Now, I've seen Samba-ites speak of elongating the slots in the torsion arms and/or stuffing shims up in there. But that does not seem right to me."

If, by saying "torsion arms" you mean the rear spring plates, then, Yup - that's how it's done.

Normally, these cars were built to pretty tight tolerances (they're German, after all...) so when they were put together, minimal adjustment was necessary.  

After a lot of years, though, things get out of tolerance so the way you adjust the rear (and IRS is easier to adjust than Swing arm) about all you can do is slot the spring plates and/or put in wedge shims (now made from anything suitable that's handy) to bring it to where you want it.

Personally, on a swing axle car I would NEVER have rear toe-out, it will make your car swap ends!

Zero toe or a slight bit of toe-in(1/16") is all that is needed. The spring blades should be slotted to allow some movement, my car has adjustable fabricated trailing arms to allow adjustment like the spring blades. Basically, set the rear ride height first to get it where you want, whatever camber you end up with. Then set the toe-in in back. Always work back to front, the front keys off of the rear alignment. If the rear axle isn't parallel to the front, your car will dog-track, that's why you need to set it first.

Then move to the front, set ride height if your beam is adjustable. Then set front camber. Finally set toe-in. Check the caster, should be 3 to 3.5 degrees or so. For hi-speed driving about 5 degrees is good. On cars with a removable beam, you can add caster shims(and longer bolts). If the beam is welded in like on my Spyder or Beck Speedsters, you can buy aftermarket caster/camber shims. These allow a larger range of adjustment than factory and install on the upper ball joints.

Specs? I ended up with -3.5 degrees camber rear, and -1.5 camber front. Toe-in is 1/16" front and rear. Caster is 5 degrees. Admittedly my specs are more aggressive than most, but I like the way the car turns in and handles. YMMV. 

On a non-aggressively driven car, stick close to stock Beetle specs.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/for...ewtopic.php?t=206764

To elaborate a little more on caster- the factory setting (about 2 1/2? degrees) is barely adequate for a stock beetle driven at minimum freeway speeds (60-70mph). VW kept caster to a minimum so the car was easy to steer in the parking lot for the 98lb. ladies that were part of the target market.

 Any time a car is lowered with the beam (center adjusters, cutting and rotating the center points or removing torsion leaves) you've reduced caster. Even when drop spindles are used, if the front is lower than the back then caster has been reduced. With the way these cars get driven (think higher highway speeds and twisty canyon/mountain roads) just about every VW based Speedster built could use one set of thin caster shims under the bottom tube (Gene Berg's thin shim adds about 1 1/2') for the high speed stability it will provide. Even if you normally adhere pretty much to the speed limit, even a momentary blast of playfulness could end up in disaster.

As a somewhat foolish young man I drove a lowered bug (down 5" in front, didn't know about caster shims and dropped spindles weren't around yet) as transportation for years. The car was somewhat "darty" at 60mph and the first (and only) time I took it up to over 100mph the steering was so sketchy it scared the begeezus out of me. A crosswind had me in the next lane before the steering would react.  Al  

Sounds exactly like my '57 Oval I had back in '67.

Went like the hammers of Hell, but was almost un-driveable over 80mph (but you could turn the wheel with the palm of your hand in a parking lot).

The big "handling Improvement" back then was to knock off the hubcap clips and run your rear wheels turned around so they dished out.  Looked cool, but did almost nothing for handling.

"If I knew then what I know now......"

My caster is stock for a '60-'68 Type I Beetle at 3.33 degrees plus or minus 1 degree.

Great post with specs and explanations, Danny--thanks for that--it's a "keeper".

One note---I misspoke in my first post,it wasn't less negative camber that was done to compensate for steel belted rafials vs. bias ply tires, it was toe in.  He uses 1/32" front toe on each side rather than 1/8" to 1/16" to adjust for radial tires.  Sorry for that error! (My camber is stock at .4 degrees negative)

Good stuff. Thanks, Gordon. Yeah: "spring plates."