Stan... Pat has been waiting for your call since 2005, come on you want to ... pick up the phone and dial that number 
I agree with Pat. I tend to over inform according to some customers as to building or tuning their car. A shop must build to what the customer wants but also informing them of all the options including any ad ons down the road. Customer's demographics play into this, because a customer in the mid west, southern ca and northern ca may have different needs. Any of these three should be built for cross county road trip too.
i spend hours answering emails, texts, and phone calls over engine combos, tuning, and trans ratios. It's all good down the road as giving good informative information helps everyone
Thank you everyone! Stan I appreciate you taking the time to write your history and I’ll definitely benefit from your adventures (Misadventures?) I’ve had a nice chat with Pat the other day and will go with him for my motor....now just keeping my fingers crossed for my taxes to come out the way I “need” them to!
I’m leaving for Vietnam this week but the plan is when I’m back next month I’m making some calls and spending some money. But no doubt with everyone’s help from this site I’m spending my money wisely (perhaps that’s an oxymoron in this hobby? 😉)
Thanks again everyone. Pat- I’ll be in touch.
Bake
Wow. That is integrity---so rare these days. Pat it's easy to see why your reputation is so stellar.
I've seen Stan's engine story a couple times here and I'm always, always awestruck. And yeah, I'd have been a Pat Downs customer last year had not Carey Hines offered up a mild, 1200-mile Raby engine for reasonable money. I remain very confident that it was the best decision I've made so far on this build.
Pat Downs posted:Part of my job as an engine builder is try to advise customers of what is the best choice for their driving style. I lose more sales than I get do to the fact that I’m honest and I won’t sell you something that I don’t believe will be reliable. There are WAY to many engine builders out there that want your money, not your happiness in the car of your dreams.
When I was looking for a new engine for my car I called CB and talked to Pat. I explained what I needed for the type of driving I do 99% of the time and he convinced me that I would be happy with a 1904cc . He was correct, I've been very happy with the torque and it's quick enough to have some fun with around here. Pat didn't get my business this time only because they're 3000 miles away. I found a reputable builder only 100 miles away and he used the CB build kit with a new magnesium case and I'm happy so far. Very honest and helpful even if they don't build your engine.
Having "white knuckled the Blue Ridge mountains" while sitting to Stan's left, I can say that his current engine leaves little on the table in performance. I've ridden and driven many VW / Porsche based vehicles and was never more impressed. Throttle snaps were instant, Cornering flat, Breaking didn't feel squirely, and it went like a bat out of hell...... I've built VW engines (way back) and owned C.B. engines.... Wish I had had Pat Downs experience earlier....
You are too kind, Leon— a gentleman and a scholar.
Ditto what Marty and Stan have said. If I'd spent that kind of money, nobody would know either!
I, on the other hand, am either extremely smart or lucky or both. $6k back in 2001 for my little 2165cc gem from Jake. This was long money back then, but an absolute bargain today. Plus a couple hundred for the crankfire ignition and shimming the cylinders to drop compression 3/10s of a point.
The point is weigh your options and do it once, and do it right.
Stan, since you and some of the others have these big ole motors, I was wondering about cooling it. When I put my 3.44 gears in the car lost a lot of its pull. My engine now is a 2110 from Pat that made 148 hp on his dyno. It seems a little marginal now.
I’m thinking about going to a 2332 and wanted to know if the setup I have now will cool it. I have a Setrab cool pack mounted on the bulkhead but I made mounting brackets that moved it down and away so the air is being pulled through the cooler and exhausted out the bottom of the car. It cools the 2110 really well. Do you think a larger engine will be OK with this cooler?
Fpcopo VS posted:Stan, since you and some of the others have these big ole motors, I was wondering about cooling it. When I put my 3.44 gears in the car lost a lot of its pull. My engine now is a 2110 from Pat that made 148 hp on his dyno. It seems a little marginal now.
I’m thinking about going to a 2332 and wanted to know if the setup I have now will cool it. I have a Setrab cool pack mounted on the bulkhead but I made mounting brackets that moved it down and away so the air is being pulled through the cooler and exhausted out the bottom of the car. It cools the 2110 really well. Do you think a larger engine will be OK with this cooler?
The displacement increase would only be a touch more than 10% so chances are it will be ok. Of course, the only way to know for sure is to do it.
PS- And yeah, that's the trade off when you go to a longer r&p- it loses it's "zip". More displacement will bring some (but not necessarily all) of it back.
Thanks Al. Ah what’s another $10 grand anyway. No luggage rack on the hearse.
I went down that rabbit-hole (please refer to the cautionary tale I posted previously). There are a lot of reasons to get a big engine-- but in my experience, "building out" so that an engine you really like can pull the gear you wish it would is a great way to incinerate a LOT of money for less gain than you'd think.
The money is far better spent on the transaxle. If your car will accept a 5-speed, I'd do that 5x before I got a bigger engine. If it won't, you can just shorten up your 4th with a .93, and you'll love what you've got again. A stock 1-3 and a .93 fourth with a 3.44 and a 2110 is a really nice combination.
That’s exactly the combination I’ve got Stan. Stock 1-3 and a .93 4th. I guess it feels like it lost so much because my old transaxle was supposed to be a 3.88 but was a 4.12. Pat even used the smaller early Panchito heads so it would have a flatter torque curve and it does.
Since you have already done this I will have to think it over some more. A 5 speed would be a lot cheaper, especially since the transaxle I have now would be worth quite a bit to sell.
You had a 4.12 but thought it was a 3.88, so you went to a 3.44. (Sounds familiar...oh yeah—I just did that with the Spyder box...seems like a lot of trannies advertised as 3.88 r&p have the 4.12. But anyway)
Why not just put a 3.88 in it then?
I got the 3.44 because I couldn’t believe how tight my car was winding at 70 with what I thought was a 3.88. After my guy pulled the box apart and found out it was a stock beetle trans, not even a .82 4th it was too late, I had already sent him the 3.44. At this point, I’m not pulling it out again. I have been working on this thing sorting it out for 3 years and I’m going to enjoy it for a while. The 3.44 is great on the road, it’s just a little steep in town. I was thinking about changing the engine because it was a lot easier to pull it than the trans. Stan has me thinking though. I also remember Pat telling me the 2110 is good for Speedsters because the thicker sleeves cool the best.
Personally a big fan of the 3.44 and in Bridget (1820 lbs with me aboard; 10 percent less HP and torque than you have) I'm doing 60 in a little under 6 seconds. That feels plenty quick to me.
I also like being able to get to 60 before shifting to 3rd. My car is rev-limited to 6k so with the 3.88 it couldn't happen, which means, given the vagueries of VW shift linkage, the 0-60 time would probably be slower even with the higher ratio.
That said, I'm sure that if I ran this engine with a 4.12 box before switching to the 3.44, it'd probably feel sluggish.
I really liked my 2110cc it is a great engine for sure and yes the 3:44 can seem sluggish from the get go but absolutely great on the highway. IMO
Sluggish, eh? You and/or your car should probably go on a diet. Spyders don't have a problem at all off the line, might be the 1500 pound all-up weight.
I definitely need to diet but I fit in the car OK
I have started building allot more bigger engines using the 044 Panchito head. The head has such good cooling capabilities, it allows me to make more power without creating additional heat compared to the older 044 head casting. I can build a 2332cc with 8-1 compression and make a streetable 175 hp and 180lbs of torque.
Wow. That’s amazing.
The only thing I regret about buying Cary's swapped-out Raby engine is that I missed out on Panchitos.
Don't despair, Ed. You, too, can have have your Panchitos, and eat them too:
Los Panchitos Recipe:
edsnova posted:The only thing I regret about buying Cary's swapped-out Raby engine is that I missed out on Panchitos.
Jake Raby's engines clearly are that of the finest in the industry and on the planet(amongst a short list of few others)....I am sure that your powerplant does not suffer from PANCHITO DEFICIENCY
at all. You are one of the lucky few to have JAKE under the hood!