Clutch adjustment, cable replacement, hydraulic clutches, etc.

I had a wonderful drive to/from work yesterday in the Speedster, but I noticed the shifting getting difficult at lunch, and near impossible on the way home. I really got some practice with my double-clutching. Finally as I pulled into the garage (a side-loader) and had to back up to get lined up, it quit releasing altogether. I got it into reverse, and the car very slowly moved backwards. After that, it wouldn't go into first, so I pushed it into the garage. I've adjusted "the big wing-nut" before, and figure that will resolve the problem for now, but it seems to have stretched a fair amount in a short time (last adjusted back in December), so I am afraid the cable may be about to go. I know where I'll be in the morning - under the car. This brings up several questions:

1. Where can I get a replacement cable that's the right length for our shorter cars? I'll probably want to carry it with me in the trunk.

2. Could it be a bowden tube issue, or is it likely the cable? Just what the hell does the bowden tube do, anyway?

3. Has anyone installed a hydraulic clutch release, and if so, was it worth the trouble?

Well, better now that on the road to Carlisle .....
Not sure if your Special Edition speedster has the exact clutch cable configuration as a VS - CMC etc. best to contact Carey as he can best diagnose your clutch cable problem.

The Bowden tube allows for a bend in the clutch cable so it will not chatter. ~Alan

Thanks for the bowden tube info. Carey can probably hook me up with a new, shortened cable, if I need one. Heck, I should probably get one just for safety's sake. And yes, much better now than on the way to Carlisle.

I am curious about the hydraulic option, although I know it would be expensive. Let's see now, less than $10 for a new cable versus approx. $300 for a conversion to hydraulic. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Lane,
That much play in that little time is a sure fire sign it is getting ready to let go. i.e. don't drive too far from home until it is fixed. :)


The clutch cables are made specifically for us by the same Brazilian manufacturer that makes the VW cables. This keeps you from having to shorten a cable. I keep a ton in stock.

It is not exactly a roadside fix, so you might want to do the swap as a preventative measure...


Could be that the Bowden tube has popped out of the aluminum sleeve at the forward end, but very unlikely.

The Bowden tube is a flexible tube that allows the clutch cable to flex but not change lengths. Everything in the clutch cable "system" is attached to a fixed point, but the engine is on rubber mounts so it can "twist" under load. IF the clutch cable ran directly to the clutch arm, and was straight, as the engine twisted, the clutch cable would suddenly be pulled by the movement of the engine, rapidly becoming shorter and longer... creating a heavy chatter.

I LOVE hydraulic clutches. We have a kit here that is a retro fit to the existing pedals. The kit isn;t too cheap, and install is several hours, but once it is done, you never have to worry about cables again. That said, Chuck would tell you 6 of one 1/2 dozen of another... cables break and hydraulics leak, but I've have yet to have a single hydraulic clutch failure yet...

IF you want to go hydraulic, call my cell and we can work something out.

Damn... get a phone call while typing and things get answered for me. Alan is on top of it.

So... does this mean I get a free SE speedster at Carlisle :) ~Alan

Here's representative images of Bowden tube (2) with a "spec" (1)
1) http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=401034

2) http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=343519

Ok, a telephone call with Carey and here's the plan:

1. Fiddle with it tomorrow to check the bowden tube and adjust it again so that it's drivable for short distances.

2. Carey's shipping me a new cable with the wheels. It'll be installed as a preventative measure.

3. He and I will talk about the hydraulic option as a long-term solution while at Carlisle.

Gotta get it drivable cuz the weather is perfect now!

UPDATE TO THE UPDATE!!!!!

I just went out to measure the free play and noticed a little pin sticking out of the clutch pedal arm. The pedal itself felt a bit loose. I pushed the pin back in and now all is well. Looks like I may need to put some JB Weld (aka "smackumpuckey") on that bad boy.

I'll still get the replacement cable and consider the hydraulic option, but I'm glad this is not a critical problem. The weather's too nice to have the car laid up.

Good catch, Lane! It's still good to keep a spare. I keep a spare clutch and throttle cable in the car always.

~WB

Ya Mr. Anderson a fine job you've done !

Hey Lane, that find is right up there with having the arms on the throttle linkage come adrift or having my steering box come loose and rotate while driving. You just can't get this stuff from a factory built ride. What did they call that again - Oh yeah - - THE MADNESS!

Good work Lane! Glad you are going to be driving in the nice Spring weather! Don't you love it when you figure a problem like this out it out!

Very good catch, and very uncommon. The more common failing is a cracked clutch fork. that gives away suddenly. and you lose half the throw of the petal. I had one that one side broke clean an it took out the clutch and pressure plate. A nice clack y rattle as i remember. And yes,, I had had been pushing the car pretty hard as I was playing around when I dood it..

Every time one of you guys has a clutch issue. I remember that sick feeling..

Lane,

Good catch. But practice your double clutching. Remember our drive up to the hill after Old Town Mexican Cafe so we could switch cars?

I adjusted it after that and it ran for a while and then broke about 2-3 weeks later. Had to do a cable replacement and it was easy/fun. Get a cable from Special Edition for sure.

Dave

Thanks, Guys. Yeah, I'm glad I saw that little pin. Whew!!

Barry, I'm going to be driving up to Aaron White's B&B in Lake Lure to meet him and Tom Raymond the first weekend in April. I believe Aaron and you have spoken. Since you're in NC, you should think about driving over and joining us.

Lane,
Take a real close look at your clutch pedal around the pin hole. The common cause of the pin coming out is a cracked clutch pedal.
If cracked, Remove the pedal assy. & weld or replace it. If cracked or loose It Will get worse~

Greg

Will do, Greg. Thanks for the tip.

I drove the car a lot today, as the weather was almost perfect. A bit on the cool side, perhaps, but too nice to let the car sit in the garage. Shifted like a dream.

I have a great many iffy's on that idea..

If I have a job I will most likely have a work schedule conflicts.

If I get the mileage motor in it before then I need to road test it some to re tune it.

AND If my Mom don't fall and get hurt again before then..

If all that works to my favor?

Or if I win the lottery before then. and can say to heck with work and hire a care giver ??

TOOO many if's!! Really!!!!!!!!!! I wouldn't count on it! Sorry sir!

I know the fix is already in for this thread, but I came across this today and figured it wouldn't hurt for future reference. (Lane, my nephew had exactly this issue years ago with the whole pedal breaking off as well; he limped over to my house with a rigged-up Vise-Grip for a pedal. I taught him well..."duct tape and Vise-Grips" -don't leave home without 'em!!!)

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=118305 (good exploded view)

Don't for get the ball of string and a spool of mechanic's wire. Wire to wire up anything that try's to fall off. and string for a back up throttle cable..

Amen Barry.

I bought the short version cable directly from VS and keep it as a spare in my trunk just in case.

Barry - you mean like THIS...

While coming back from a balloon festival late at night, riding the back roads, the accelerator went to the floor. I said to my wife "What kind of shoes do you have on?" Sandals. Why? Do I have to walk?" I was looking for shoe laces. as it was i took the leather laces out of my dock sider shoes, tied them together, ran it over my inside shoulder and worked the accelerator to get us home. I have also used shoe laces tied to wiper arms the passenger pulling back and forth to move wipers. Now as a precaution I also carry thin nylon cord like used on blinds along with spare cables.

Damn!

ANOTHER thing to add to my spares kit.

Topsiders!

Rocky, been there done that. May I suggest "parachute shroud line"? I've carried two ten foot sections in every vehicle I own for over 40 years. Used as a throtle cable in a 16 foot outboard boat once - it was either full throttle or idle - not a lot in between, as I am sure you know by now. Good for tie downs in the truck bed or on a motorcycle, and held a hood down on a friends car so he could drive home and avoid a tow.

Barry,

Are you coming this weekend? Going to take these drivers on a different drive...Green River Cove Road, Blue Ridge Parkway up and down to Little Switzerland and down via Buck Creek Gap. I have some routes that that make the Tail look like a "sissy" drive. A lot more elevation changes and total hairpin turns. Green River...you go down not up! The local boys will run you over if you go up! Got to lookout for the pick-ups with flapping fenders and drivers with matted beards! Deliverance again, but with Speedsters!

You have ridden with me in the past

Aaron, you probably got my email. Me coming - at least with the Speedster - is kinda iffy this weekend. It depends on whether I can fix the clutch once and for all in time. If not, I'll come up with plan B. It might involve a Japanese car, though.

All - This weekend the pin backed out again. I'll spare you the details, but in an attempt to fix it once and for all I broke a tap off in the hole. I have to remove the pedals and probably replace them. Hope to have the new pedals by Thursday so that I can install Thursday after work. I'll remove them tonight and see if I can fugure out a way to get the tap out, but my tools (and skills) are limited, so I may have to punt. I've ordered the new set as a backup.

Lane
"I've ordered the new set as a backup."
Did you order the Tools, the Skills, or the Pedals?
Seriously...
After you remove the Pedal assy. You should be able to drive the Pin out of the assy.for clutch pedal removal and replacement.

Greg

Except for the fact that the pin is now a broken-off, hardened steel tap!

Broken off jaggedly at one end inside the hole, and just short of coming out the other side, so it doesn't have enough length to serve as the pin. I'm not sure that I have anything capable of getting out a hardened steel tap.

Greg - I searched for skills, but couldn't find them for sale online, so I'm screwed. :-(

Sounds like a visit to Ken Erwin, to me.

You will NEVER get that tap out of there. Remember that it's threaded in AND tight enough to break off. If you try to drill it out, the drill will slip off to the side and try to drill an alternate hole beside the tap.

Not good.

Pull the pedal cluster and take it to Ken. Have him trash the shaft in the middle of it and get a new one from Ken. And have him put it together for you with the proper pin to hold it all together. Hopefully, the holes in the pedal arm are still OK.

Lane: pls tell me where you can order a new set of skills . . .

Gordon is right, the tap will not come out gracefully. New pedal ass'y ~$100, I think. Good luck. You could get the tap out eventually, but the result will leave a really big and ugly hole. You'd have to drill a clean hole through the mangled part, turn a bushing to fit the new bigger hole, press it in and drill the right hole in the bushing in the right place. I have seen this sort of thing done. Absent the lathe and drill press needed to make all that happen, you could hire a machine shop to do it, for which they will charge probably $250.00. Can you say: junk yard? I saw a table at Carlisle last year w/ many pedal ass'ys for sale, cheap. But you don't want to wait 'til then.

As to the original estimate of the problem: clutch cable going bad, consider this. My car was delivered new with a too short cable. The cable was a new, shortened cable, as per what the builders buy, as noted. HOWEVER, according to JPS, my hybrid tube/pan chassis was assembled just a little different, and so the pedals were a little too far away, and so the std shortened cable was a little too short. The fix: bought a regular bug cable (way too long) and cut the aft bend off at the right place to provide proper adjustment length when fit w/ a new threaded rod. Went to a sail rigger and had him swedge on a threaded rod so that the total length was just right, as per my careful measurement beforehand. Cost: very reasonable. One hick-up, however: the sail fitter had only english threaded rod, not metric. We used the english size closest to the metric and tried the wing nut at the riggers and it looked like it would be fine. Turned out it was not quite fine enough. Under load from pedal push, the threads slipped. Second fix: Using the wing nut w/ spherical contour to fit the pressure plate arm hole correctly, I used a proper threaded english jam nut (a Nylock) to fix it in place. Works fine. Lesson: Be sure you know exactly how long the clutch cable needs to be to fit your car and leave room to adjust. A ready made one might not be just right, so you'd have to make one, sorta like I did. Or: I am the only person in the universe to have a non-standard distance between pedal and clutch. ;-)

New pedal set ordered. I think the vibration caused by drilling holes for a set of aluminum pedal covers while the pedals were in the car is probably the reason for the initial failure. I'll clamp it in a bench vise (that I just bought) and install the covers before the new set goes in the car. Looks like I'll be busy Thurday evening.

Kelly - Carey has already sent me a spare cable cut down for the correct length. Some service, huh?

Lane,
If you ain't running , I'll think about letting you drive my James Bond vehicle. Just thinking about it, mind ya, She's the centerfold in a UK magazine, what else, but..."Cars of James Bond".

Sweet!!! I saw one of those at Carlisle, Miata drive train, right?

Anyway, the car should be good to go. It's back together and everything seems ok. It's raining too much (and I'm too tired) for a test drive. I'll find out for sure in the morning. I may take you up on the offer to drive the Lafer anyway.

Shipping sunshine and mid 70's your way....Good luck....

Lane, perhaps after your experiences you can help.
Tried to adjust my clutch today. The wingnut looks and feels like it is right at the end of the cable, and I can't turn it clockwise. Is there a trick to relieving some of the tension?