Clutch Issue... again....

Ok, before I take the car in and let the air cooled experts charge me big bucks for an engine drop and new clutch/tranny, I need to ask one more time if I am missing something.

When I start my car up and it is still cold, the clutch action is good, goes into gear and takes off very well, shifts into all further gears and down again with no trouble at all. Once the car really gets to full temps it starts turning for the worse. I have to force it (VERY notchy) into first and sometimes second gear while stopped, once it gets going its great, but sometimes I feel like I am going to break the stick trying to push it into first gear at a stop light. I have tried double clutching etc and nothing works. I have adjusted and readjusted the clutch cable and lubed the bowden tube etc., but nothing seems to be working. When I get home and shut down the engine, the whole thing goes away, it shifts smooth as silk when not running.

Is this something that I just need to bite the bullet and get yanked?

Does this sound like transmission or clutch?

I am thinking that this CB Performance Ultra Performance engine might have been a little too much for the standard Kennedy clutch, so if I do have to replace the whole shabang, is there any suggestions as to what to replace it with (less than 1000 dollar suggestions please, otherwise I am giving massages to my wife for a month)?

James

Not sure, and I might be reaching, but since it's ok when cold and progressively worse when hot, could it be that the tolerance of the pilot bushing and the tranny shaft is too tight. As the bushing heats up and expands, could it be grabbing the shaft therefore bypassing the disengaging action of the clutch? If it is, an engine pull is necessary.
Have you tried a call to Henry?
Just a thought.

~WB

Henry is on vacation, the whole place is shut down till the end of next week. I pretty much figured an engine pull was necessary. The only issue is its not as easy to drop as most since the exhaust has to come off to do it (something about the crossover or something), but I am fine with that. I figure at 85 bucks an hour and engine already out, I would just replace the clutch now. The parts are pretty cheap and since they have to rip it apart and search for the problem, it might be economically cheaper to just replace rather than search. While they have it down I will get a valve adjustment and a general going over.

James

Just a thought, but you may want to see what type lubricant is in the transmission. It may be that as the transmission heats up, the fluid inside is changing viscosity, getting thicker, making shifting increasingly more difficult.

Definitly easier than an engine pull and trans / clutch replacement.

So. Hokay. You'll be able to see the pieces now; look for what looks like soot on the inside the bell housing, in line with the plane of the parts. Take clutch parts out (pretty self-explanatory when you're in there) and look at the surfaces. If you've got oil on the disc, it'll be really smooth and shiny. It should feel a little rough and be dry if it's not the culprit. My bet is it'll be smooth and it's time for a new one and to solve the other problem while you have the engine out.
If the main shaft pilot bearing is bad, the replacement parts you'll need will probably be a Stage 1 1700-lb. pressure plate (about $110-$120; should be perfect for your engine) and a Diakin (Sp?) clutch disc without the shock-absorbing springs in the middle of it. Just a smooth disc ought to run $35 or so -- and you'll be out the door for less than $200 spent.

Anybody wanna back me up on all that? My pieces are different, and my experience is limited to this engine/swing axle combo and the shoddy 1641/IRS I had before it ...

I'm going to take an educated guess, but I'm not a "qualified" VW mechanic. (I'm still learning, too.)
I think it could be one of two things. Either way, your engine will have to come out, but you may be able to do it at home, if you get Lane to quit taking vacations long enough to come over and help you out ...
I think either your flywheel could be getting oil on it from a leaking main seal or your main shaft pilot bearing is fouled up and is dragging the main shaft. Both of those cease to be a real problem once you're in motion, but they'll make it seem like your clutch is covered in honey coming off the line.
Here's what'cha do:
If it's oil on the flywheel, when you push the clutch, the disc will stick to the pressure plate. Check for free play in the cable by sticking your hand up to the wishbone-shaped lever that actuates the throw-out bearing, and pull on the cable. There should be five or six inches of free play in it. If the pedal starts to move the lever about an inch to an inch and a half off the floor, the adjustment is good and you can move on. That'll mean the bearing isn't sticking to the pressure plate; no greasy mess there.
If you've got access to a floor jack, you can do the clutch disc check at home. It really shouldn't take more than an hour or so to remove the whole engine from the car, if you're taking your time, maybe having a glass of sweet tea ...
After you've got the car's butt in the air, put jackstands under the torsion tube and move the floor jack to the middle of the bottom of the engine and start disconnecting things, including the tins. Maybe tag them as they come off, and have a Phillips screwdriver and hose clamp handy for your fuel line ...
There are only a couple-three bolts holding your engine onto the bell housing. Take those guys off and balance the engine on the jack. Pull it to the rear of the car where the tins used to be, and you'll have a few inches of clearance between the engine and the bell housing. You'll be pulling the engine off the splined shaft protruding from the tranny.
Still with me? (more)

Thanks everyone for the brain picking... I thought it could be the fluid is low or needs to be changed out as well. The clutch doesn't slip unless I start it slipping and gun it before it fully engages (once) and never slips while stomping on it, so it actually could be oil on flywheel etc... in the end the advice is leading me to what I suspected in the first place. I do not trust myself to drop an engine without someone there that knows what the heck they are doing, so I am going to take it to the mechanics and see what they can do. The nice thing is this shop has a great reputation and will allow me to spend the time with them and watch what they are doing so I can do it myself (possibly) next time. Sounds like they should be able to do it in about 4 or 5 hours and with about 300 bucks in parts, so I should be able to get out with less than a grand. Once thats done, I hope the car will be much more enjoyable to drive.

I will let you know what it ends up being... a prize goes to the one who guesses closest.. lol.

Thanks again.

James

Three hour job at $60 hour; $180.00.
Parts at $120 and $35 each, plus a 15 percent markup; $168.25.
Subtotal; $348.25
Tax at 6%; $20.90.
That makes my prediction for your total $369.15.

You'll have enough of your grand left over to get the woman's back massaged by someone who does it for a living ...

The shop I have gone to in the past is 85 an hour, and they say its about 1.5 hours to pull the engine out as the exhaust is in the way and has to be removed. Maybe I will look around, but I really trust these guys. They sponsor a club racer meet every wednesday night at their shop and talk trash and drink beer... gotta love that.

James

The exhaust removal is a 5 minute job on a rack. The pipes do not need to be seperated, the three bolts that hold the pipes to the header are removed and the two nuts on the muffler supports are undone and the entire piece swings away as a unit.

The flat pieces that hold the engine surround rubber are "screwed" to the frame (they are rivited on older cars, I don't know about yours). If they are rivited, they can be reinstalled with self tapping machine hex heads. The engine engine can be removed without taking off the (or just one) carbs.

If they're pulling the engine, then recommend that they use a motorcycle jack, but they'll probably end up using whatever they want.

If YOU pull the engine, then I would strongly recommend using a Sears motorcycle jack, as it has two horizontal arms meant to cradle the motorcycle frame, but they fit perfectly on both sides of the VW engine oil sump. Not only that, but they hold the engine safely and FLAT without jiggling around during removal and, more importantly, re-installation. The transmission input shaft glides right in to the clutch disk splines (since it's level and not cocked out of alignment) and the engine lines up with minimal screwing around.

gn

I won't be pulling the engine here until I see it done at least once, and then still have someone around that knows what they are doing. My plans for this winter are to have a 4 post lift installed in the garage...we were going to buy a new house with a 3 car garage, but to do that I had to sell the IM, and that would defeat the ONLY reason "I" wanted to move. Eventually I am sure i will get to the point where I feel comfy dropping the engine, but not at this point. Maybe I can convince Henry to come to the east coast for an inspection of the IM dealership here.. lol.

James

Jim:

It takes a few times, but eventually you reach the point where it's really not a big deal to pull the engine. Once you get it out, you realize how really easy the designers made it to work on a VW, and these cars are really no different.

Of course, the ultimate in engine pull ease still is in a Dune Buggy, but many folks can pull a Speedster engine in around 30 minutes, and put it back in under 45 minutes - and that's just working normally with one person.

Once you get it out and start doing what you wanted to do in the first place......now THAT's another story!!

gn

A few years back, when I was learning the ins and outs of clutch springs in my 356B ('cause my clutch was shot, and so needed a new one) and not being expert in the nuances of clutches and diaphragm springs, I got so I could get the engine out or put it back in in about 15 mins. Practice makes perfect, don't you know, and I was having a hell of a time getting the clutch to work right. Required many ins and outs. Just like folks here, I was intimidated at the thought of yanking the engine at first, but just took it a step at a time. Once you learn where the bolts are, and the right tool needed to turn them, (a ratcheted box end wrench seems the ideal tool) it works pretty easy. Gotta have a hydraulic lift though, and the tip about using a motorcycle jack is a good one. It can be a one man job, but having two always helps -- you'll need someone to hold your beer while you're under there working those bolts.

Set the car up on stands, a good and yank and a wiggle the motor is out and onto an old tire in 9 under minutes.
A what ? ...a .......lift, hyd/jack and a helper too?
What's this some sort of Teamster job ?
Best we ever did was a 1500 motor R & I for a blown clutch on the shoulder of Rt 3 in Clifton NJ.
Just a few hand tools, a concrete block and a few short 2x4's to level things out a bit.
Two 4 foot 2x4's as levers to reinstall the motor and be on our way into NYC to complete our beverage run.
Some of us still remember all the fun that was :)
OK, I also now have a shop scissor lift so my tired bones don't creak as much....

Alan, you rock! Basic wrench mentality: do not be affraid of it; just undo stuff until it's all on the floor, then remember how it all goes back.