Clutch problem

What symptoms do you have? What exactly is happening, what are you feeling/hearing?

 

There are many things that could be wrong, cable frayed, broken welds on clutch cable tube inside chassis, clutch pedal hook broken, cross-shaft forks broken, pressure plate failure, clutch disc worn/failed, oil on clutch, etc.

Thanks very much for your prompt reply!

I hear a creaking sound as I apply pressure on the clutch pedal.  It's not completely floppy the clutch pedal but definitely not as much tension as before.  I wanna say the creaking sound is somewhere between the Bowden tube and clutch pedal.  I videoed the lever near where the bolt ends while applying the clutch pedal fully down.  (Not that I have a reference point from before). It doesn't seem to move much whether I put 1,2 or 3 nuts between the Bowden tube.  So the tension in the cable comes far too late to pull the lever down fully.  Something else must be loose which creates a slack in the clutch cable.

I would imagine if the hook had broken come off the clutch I would not be able to yanks the clutch up and down using the cable.


Many thanks again for your help.

A

Cross shaft.

Hi, is this the cross shaft?  http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m77tdYfs7NA 

If so, is this why the lever doesn't move as well?

Thanks,
A

Yes, That's the throwout bearing cross shaft. When they break, the break right at one of the arms where the throwout bearing would attach. This allows the 'fork' part to flex and thus not engage the throwout bearing.

 

I'm not sure I follow your "is this why the lever doesn't move as well" question.

 

When you step on the clutch, the clutch arm pulls the clutch cable, that then pulls the cross shaft arm toward front of the car, this then should engage the throw out bearing to push in on the pressure plate. If when you step on the clutch, if the arm moves but you still don't have a clutch - then you'll need to pull the motor to see if one of the fork fingers have broken off.

If you step on the clutch and that arm doesn't move, then you've got a problem in the arm/cable.

 

Easy peasy,

Ted

A broken cross shaft would still have normal movement at the lever arm.

 

Your lack of lever arm movement combined with the creaking noise sounds to me like you've broken a weld on the clutch tube inside the central tunnel. If you have enough access, you can try to remove the access plate on the tunnel just in front of the rear seat (rear shifter bushing access) and with a camera and bright enough light try and see if you can notice the tube flexing as you operate the clutch pedal.

 

Here's a view inside the tunnel: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/for...hp?p=1516250#1516250

 

Personally, while I don't believe it is, I do hope it's the cross shaft as that's a much easier fix the trying to repair the cable tube.

Thanks very much!  I fear it is the clutch tube.  Pulling the engine or welding back the clutch tube both sound like a job for a mechanic with the right tools unfortunately for me.

I agree with Justin. If the cross shaft arm is not moving much with relation to the amount of 'throw' of the clutch pedal - then it's not the cross shaft.

 

This reminds me of my 71 Ghia. One day my clutch quit working. I poked around and couldn't find the cause. After a bit of head scratching I found the clutch pedal 'arm' had a pretty large crack in it. When I pushed down on the clutch pedal, the arm would flex at the crack. The pedal would go all the way down to the 'floor' but the lever would only move about an inch.

 

You could check your clutch pedal arm and make sure it's not cracked or otherwise flexing.

 

Ted

Thanks Ted!  The pedal break would be 'ideal' so to speak.  I poked around a bit today (without removing the pedal set) and couldnt see anything obvious.  I'll have another look.

Thx,
A

Alessio...there's another scenario that could cause the problem and it's easy to figure out. There are several welds along the clutch cable tube and the one closest to the rear of the tube is visible coming out of the metalwork exactly where the FRONT of the Bowden tube meets the clutch cable tube.

 

Easy to check and if this is the case, I have an easy fix. Get someone under the car ( or a video camera ) and observe closely where the front of the Bowden cable fits into the clutch cable tube. Have a second person depress the clutch pedal. If the front end of the Bowden cable pushes the rear end of the clutch cable tube forward, the clutch won't work because the clutch cable advances forward within the Bowden cable and cannot exert force on the cross shaft arm.

 

Do this test...if it is what I describe above, I'll then show a simple fix with a pic or two. Good luck....

Cable fray?

How can I tell if it's cable fray?  Will check the weld tomorrow.
Thanks,
A

Yup...if it is a broken weld on the tube it can easily be fixed....let us know and will post details

 

The only way to know for sure is to remove the clutch cable and inspect it. That requires removing the pedal cluster, but will give you a chance to closely inspect the clutch pedal, pedal hook, and cable. You can also get a finger in there and maybe feel if the front tube weld has broken loose. But if it turns out you do have to weld on the cable tube, you'll want to remove the cable anyway.

 

It won't be a cable fray. Metal won't stretch and contract like a rubber band - Come on!

Had another look in daylight.  Indeed it does seem the weld has come loose from the clutch tube.  The Bowden tube moves a little back and fourth when the clutch is pressed.  I'm just not sure if it's the outer weld or further inside.  My guess is it's further inside the tube.

Any quick fix for this or is it a mechanics job?

Thanks again,
A

If it's not the weld at the rear of the chassis where the bowden tube attaches (easy repair from outside), it would require removing the carpet and seats, cutting access hole(s) through the side of the tunnel, rewelding the tube, and welding the hole(s) back up.

A quick non weld fix....pull shifter to see where the weld broke..at that point you can dill a hole above and below and pass a hose clamp around the tube....done

Cheers!

David Stroud mentioned, up above, that he has a non-weld fix for this problem.  I've looked at it closely when I had the same problem as you and were it not that I have a welder in my "tool kit" I would have used his fix - it's pretty cool.

 

Dialog Dave and see what he did.

 

Also, it's a long slog but I mention the same failure and what I did to fix it here.  This page also includes Dave's fix:

 

https://www.speedsterowners.com...sion-mounts-1?page=4

 

 

Thanks for that, Gordon and Alan.

 

I think someone once posted a cutaway photo of a VW tunnel. Any chance someone knows where it is and could repost it here ?   Thanks...

This one you mean?  http://www.vwdcqinc.org.au/vwd...ges/tunnel1small.jpg

Here's one that's east to locate

 

Someone had a cutaway SIDE VIEW pic of a tunnel a while back.

 

Wolf...Please identify where this hole is. It would be so much more useful to everyone trying to learn. Something like....this is a right side view of a hole in a VS tunnel...just under the emerg brake linkage. It's the first of three clutch cable tube welds....etc ....Make any sense to explain what you show ? 

It's the right side (passenger side) of tunnel just below rear of the emergency brake handle - in front of the seat belt mounting bolt. It also welded with a tabup by the pedal assembly and at the very rear where it exits for the bowden tube.  Here's less elegant repair attempt.

 

Just from a chassis strength/stress standpoint a round hole is absolutely better. But from a practical standpoint, it does limit your working space.

 

Here's that site for the cutaway side views: http://www.vwdcqinc.org.au/insideabug

It's got cutaway galleries for a 63 beetle, 69 Type 3, and 71 super beetle. Only real difference between the 63 and 71 is the heater control knob.

 

The front clutch tube bracket is just rearward of the rearward mounting bolt of the pedal cluster. You don't want to cut the front access hole where it would extend past that because the right side of that bracket is welded to the right side of the tunnel.

 

The middle clutch tube bracket is about 2-2.5 inches rearward of the e-brake handle's hinge pin and about 1-1.5 inches above the bottom of the tunnel. The bracket is only connected to the left side of the tunnel so you can open the hole right over that location like the round hole pic above. The fuel line is on that same bracket so take care.

I learn something new every time i visit this site! Thanks for sharing that tech tip, Justin! 

If you have the patience, a square hole with rounded corners gives more room, yet still retains more structural strength than with sharp corners if you're going to make a cover-plate and not going to weld the patch back in when you're finished.  

I say fix it and weld it closed, then chassis rigidity concerns are moot. If it ever breaks again, you'll know where to cut. Just saying.

 

I had a Subaru where the captive nut was spinning/stripped for the trans crossmember. Of course it was in a void(two layers of steel) in the driver's footwell. After much swearing etc, I got a big holesaw in there, drilled it out, replaced the nut, welded it to the floor, and welded the cut piece back in. Let it cool, paint it, and cover it back up with the carpet. Yeah it took forever and sucked working in the footwell. But it was fixed, permanently. Some yahoo tried to ram the bolt in with an air gun, never a good idea.

Yeah my buddy who's an old VW specialist mechanic suggest to weld it back.  Sometimes quick fixes can cause other problems.  It's such a pain though to have to do this everytime a weld comes loose.

Thanks this was very useful.

I keep my speedster in the SF Bay Area so if anyone is around with there's we should go for a cruise.

You might consider putting in a hydraulic clutch.  I tolerated the cable clutch for one driving season.  Then you wouldn't have to open it up now or I the future.

Keep in mind that the broken weld previously held for probably 25/40+ years....  I should go that long without mishap....   I'm just sayin'...