Hey All,
I've got a CMC flared fender model kit that I bought partially done. She's very pretty. After installing the engine/tranny (69 Ghia dual port/beetle donor), the engine sits too high in the compartment. The engine cover leaves no room for a filter on the engine's stock carb.
Did I do something stupid? is this common CMC build defect?
Please help.
Thanks in advance, Craig
Replies sorted oldest to newest
You may get more responses if you copy this to the Speedsters/Vendor Specific forum. This is the Spyder forum and I doubt that it gets as much traffic. There are lots of experts here, so I'm sure someone can help you.
It's often because when the center pan tunnel is cut to shorten the pan, it is not aligned properly (up and down). Instead of being flat, it's welded in with a slight uphill run which results in rear trans/engine mounting forks being higher and hence the engine sitting couple inches higher. It also could be that the stock carb is simply too tall with the air filter. The solution is a carb filter like the original Ghia used, a short filter or dual carbs. Some have simply hacked a hole in the rain shield for the air cleaner (the industrious re-fiberglass it back but higher to clear the filter.)
Butt sag can also reduce the head space in the engine compartment. If you are using Kadron/Solex carbs, Kaddy Shack sells a short carb manifold.
Post a picture, we like pictures!
Butt Sag = if the gap at the top of the rear of your doors is 1/2-3/4" and it's still a nice fit at the bottom you could have butt say. It occurs then the rear heavy piece of fiberglass was not fiberglassed to the piece above the exhaust per build manual and the weight has caused the feeble rivets holding the back up to elongate and slip down. Fortunately, it's a $20 2-3 hour fix.
It could cost you maybe an inch of lost clearance.
Your chassis is shortened out of horizontal plane , all it needs to be screwed up is a few degrees. I ran into this on 3 speedsters now, PM me and I can explain how to check this and a couple of fixes. I'll need detailed pictures too.
Wow! these responses have been great.
Here are the pics, you can see the alterations I made to parts of the engine could they could "fit". All these years I hadn't even considered the guy I'd bought from had screwed up the pan re-weld. ha, you can see how far off it is. No wonder he sold it without the motor.
I guess I'll have to pull the body back off and re-weld correctly.
Thanks again guys, I really appreciate the help.
- Craig
Wow. Never seen that done to a fan shroud...
Yeah, but everything clears. haha
Your door gaps look fine - no butt sag (yet). Move the plastic fuel filter out of engine compartment - or you won't have to worry about clearance at all! Did you add that 3" piece to exhaust so the tips would clear rear splash pan?
New use for duct tape! Should have used to chrome ventilation duct tape for some bling.
Those hinges appear way too close together. Below is the page from the CMC build manual that has the hinges right at the edge of the air cutouts. I actually flipped my hinges from side to side to gain an extra inch either side. It does not hit the shroud at all. Maybe a picture of the side where the engine tin is in relation to the chassis side support rails --- think mine line up with the bottom of that rail (I know it is not above it). Build manual is in RESOURCES for donating members.
your engine seems really high. did you do anything to the trans or frame horns?
seems to me that something isn't right here.
and that mod to your cooling system is, and don't take this personally, a terrible idea.
1) it looks like (and is) a huge hack - which WILL reduce the value of your car.
2) drastically reduce the volume of air flowing to your oil cooler, #3 and #4 cylinders. this means you will have hotter oil temps and 1/2 an engine that has head problems.
I like the "Phone Dials"!
I know it isn't pretty, or healthy for the engine, I did those hacks mostly just to take it for a spin. I hadn't even considered that the person I'd bought it from could've misaligned the re-weld after shortening the pan. Now that I'm aware of that issue, I'll true up the pan and give the jury-rigging the boot.
And thanks about the Phone Dials, the seats are also from 924, and VDO Gauges from a 914.
At my folks place up in WA I've got a rear configured and a mid configured 901 tranny along with the 914's FI 2.0 engine. Someday...
For now, I just wanna be able to get it licensed and finally drive it.
too embarrassed to tell you how long ago I bought it.
Don't be embarrassed - Wolfgang bought his in 1988.... It's still getting there and not yet registered.
I bought mine in 1993 and had it on the road in 2000. There's always something new to do to it.
It was November of '88 so almost '89! Ha, been thru 4 sets of wheels - OEM steel, chrome Mangles, Porsche 914 Pedrinis, and now Porsche 914 2L Fuchs. 2 sets of tires - from sitting. And 2 maybe 3 sets of gauges - Vintage CMC crap, VDO might design, and probably next 914 gauges.
Yeah, and now you (and it) live Way down South, in Florida, where the rust and chrome pitting is accelerated so you better hurry up !
Haha - Yeah, I moved mine to Vegas, where nothing ever rusts.
I bought the kit with the pan 1995, a 914 donor soon after. Then, after mulling over the idea of converting the type 4 motor to a type 1 for a while, I picked up a 69 Ghia dual port at a "bug in" in 2003-ish. That's when I hacked away the shroud. Since then, a lot of storage and moving and planning. Plenty of planning
Craig - The 914 T4 engine will fit without converting it to upright cooling! So you could keep thermostat and heater boxes - plus save close to $1k for the DTM kit. Here's picture of a flat pancake T4 engine in a Speedster. It is actually easier to work on then when it was in 914 and easier than a DTM upright. So no shroud issues any longer! You may have to move the rear frame 2x2" steel tube back a few inches for the cooling fan setup (and maybe add air intake behind license plate).
Wow, Thanks Wolfgang! If I'd known know that 914 engine didn't need to be converted 20 years back - lol.
And thanks for the pic from the manual. I do have a copy. I had originally started to mount the hinges that distance apart, the holes I drilled are still there. I don't remember why I changed it. Maybe it'll become clear now that I'm starting to take that project off the back burner.
I recall mounting my hinges with the engine out and me in where engine would go. With the hook in the hinge it took many beers to figure where to mount the firewall brackets so the hook cleared the upper body when opening. I don't think the build manual even gives a starting point. Since you need a new shroud any way go with a 36hp dog house shroud. They come with/without heater ducts. $85.
http://www.jbugs.com/product/8673.html
