CMC Speedster?

Sounds good, Ted. For a reference, back in Sept 2010 I bought an older IM speedster in Boise, Idaho and was able to drive it East to Ottawa, Canada after putting on four new tires and a tie rod end. I paid $6,500 for it which was a bargain. It would not have been worth over $10K as it sat. Stock 1600 engine, no frills.

So, with that as a base, you may want to check out the fit and finish of the car you're looking at. How do the doors fit, how does it shift, stop, start etc. Any massive drips under the engine, tranny ? How is the interior...complete and in not bad shape ? Drum brakes all round? Generally, does it look like a nice project that never got finished for various reasons or some piece of crap that someone created and everything turned sour? Does it look right...everything straight ? What type of top is on it...condition ? Under the front hood...finished or empty but with a fuel tank ?

Alan Merklin in PA has refurbished many of them and may be able to give a good opinion on the current value.  I don't know your location but a visit to physically examine the car would be a very good idea if pics sent to you make it look promising.

If all the above looks to be headed in the right direction, I don't think $4-5K would be too far out of line. Do some work, throw a bit of cash into it and you'd have a good basic runner worth about $10K +. Put a better engine/tranny, brakes etc. into it and you'd have something worth maybe in the upper teens.

Mine's been in garage over 20 years and chrome is still ok.  About all the chrome that's there are the windshield posts ($90), the license plate light ($80) and the hub caps ($100).  All other is aluminum which can be polished.  I personally don't like the Vintage gauges - but there are numerous VDO alternatives.  Unfortunately they are all slightly smaller in size.  Nearly all came with a colored gel coat finish which even if faded can be brought back to life. 

Originally the kit without pan, wheels, trans and engine was $8k (plus shipping).  Finished in nice condition they go for around $15k plus or minus depending on finish quality and engine size.  You'll always want a more powerful engine.

Well, at the risk of losing it to someone else, here it is. He wants $9999.00 or best offer *this weekend*. He just posted the photos this evening and banks are closed tomorrow. So unless someone travels with a stack of cash, I don't think it'll be 'gone' tomorrow.

The orange 'glow' on the car is from an outdoor light.

It looks to be some sort of runner. I don't think it's anywhere near a 10k dollar car. Maybe half of that would be still too much.

What do you guys think? Am I off base?

Ted

So, there are so many things here which are different from what he said originally. It's on a 63 pan, not a 69. This would mean swing axle and king pin front end. Most likely drums. It's registration is expired. That's a dual port motor, with dual carbs - not single port. The windshield is mounted, etc. etc.

I don't know. It looks like if a guy could get it cheap enough it might be an okay start. But I'm talking like... 3k max.

You guys know more about these things than I do, you tell me.

Thanks again,
Ted

this looks a lot better for about the same price

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/cla...etail.php?id=1557446

Yeah, I've seen that one for a month or two. The issue there is that it's half way across the country from me. The black CCM above is in the same state.

So, is 10k for that car reasonable? or is he dreaming?

Ted

I did a lot better.  If you follow samba you will see many a lot cleaner than that one. I have purchased several cars from a long distance but never without seeing them with my eyeballs eventually.  (got burned on a shipment once) First I have a local shop inspect the car on my nickel.  Then comes the list of all the issues. If price is arrived upon I PayPal a decent deposit.  ( Paypal cause if there is an issue Paypal is like a credit card)  THen I fly to pick up car.  Never been disspointed.  I bought an IM, a 993 as well as boring cars.  IMHO that car is just too rough.  I got one for quite a bit less and it was running, fender flares etc.  ANd despite how close to complete I have invested thousands to get it to where I want it.  I would maybe give  $5 to $6k.  Sorry but you will not get it for $3k.  I am not a masochist and I would give $5k cause you would have enuf in the budget to have a lot of work done by someone else.  WIsh I could be more optimistic. Oh and I sold a $22k IM five years ago.  Buyer in santa barbara used same system.  Pics of that car are still here.  Boo hoo do I wish I had not sold that car.  It would be easily worth $25-28K today.  But back then I needed the cash.  Not to drone on but here is another method that I have used.  First thing every AM I check every major city in the far west.  When a new listing hits I do what I mentioned earlier.  I have the cash when I get on the plane.  I got a Spec Miata race car like that for a good price.

THought I would give my system a try and found a couple of really nice cars in the $17K area.  I also found "your" car http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/cto/4243879791.html.  You could not be in a better place.  I have seen many really nice cars in the $12-16k range.  And Troy Sloan is in San Jose and he has nice cars.  Better to buy a nice car even if you have to make some payments rather than a roach that you will never be happy with.  That car needs help but if you have time to pull engine and rebuild and do all that interior and cosmetic at that price it looks ok.  I bought mine in Reno without starting it and it also had flat tires.  But I knew I could deal with the motor and I just sanded and buffed the paint and it is really nice, IMO.  WOrking on ride height and putting in new seats etc but I drove it in the summer.

Oops.  By that price I meant $5-6k.  I am not scared of swing axles cause I like decambered wheels.  And you can replace the front end, but at ten grand he is dreaming.

Hey Bluz,

Thanks for the replies. I agree with you that 3k is almost as big of a dream as his 10k. I think I was being a pissy bitch when I posted that.

I think if I can get it for 5k and the pans aren't shot it might be a decent foundation. I mean, all the 'big parts' are there, it's a running roller, and I'm not paying anything extra for bits I don't want. The list of things to change/fix is pretty long. Long enough to make it affordable.

I have a call out to the owner of the car. We'll see if he returns it. He had the car listed about a month ago for 11,399, but didn't have an photos. The car is in SF, basically 'on' the coast. If he returns my call, I'm going to head out and have a look. See if I can swing a deal.

I didn't know Troy was in San Jose. I thought he was in Fresno. I should drop him a message and see if he'd be interested in showing me some of his cars. Maybe he'll be willing to give me some pointers on what to look out for.

Thanks again, Bluz.

Ted

I bought a 1988 unfinished CMC kit sitting on a 1973 IRS pan with even more stuff included than what's being offered there for $3K about three years ago.  The body was not mounted (still on the crate) and i assumed that the engine and transmission were throw-aways...you should, too.

That said, offer him $3K for it for removal the next day (unless you show up with a trailer to take it with you same day).   If he doesn't bite, I would go as high as $4K but no more.....it simply isn't worth more than that.  You'll end up putting $10K-$12K more into it before it's done (and probably a year or two of your time).

Good luck

I made it from Fresno to San Jose in the Sand Speedster in just over 2 hours, haha.  Hey TRP I have one of Troy's cars and am in San Jose.  Let me know if you wanna go for a ride.  I'll be killing time later today.

...and WRT that $9,999 car I think it iis wildly overpriced as others have said.  You'd probably be better off getting a new kit from Vintage and having a solid base instead of inheriting someone else's headache.

Troy,

BluzB  was just trying to get you closer to Steamer's Lane. Less than 1 hour from San Jose. Surf's up.

I drove out and saw the black beauty today. Ooooh boy. If he gets more than 5k for that thing, he's found his sucker.

It wouldn't start. Most of the bolts were your home depot variety. The entire thing smelled of mildew and moisture. The lower side of the pan wasn't welded as cleanly as the top. It was simply spot welded. So you could see the 'seam' really clearly on the bottom. The rust was pretty evident on the underside edges of the pan. The top of the passenger door was pretty busted up on the rear corner. The bumpers (both front and rear were really off center, by about 2 inches to one side. 

Transmission was pretty wet with some sort of oil. Same with the underside of the motor. 

It's a shame to see this one so far gone.

I was really trying to like this one, but I think it'd be a long road to hoe. I'm going to pass. 

Ted

I thought I read somewhere that the Vintage body had a misshapen front end? One fender/side is shaped correctly but the other side bulges out more than it should (or something of that nature.)

I'm not saying that's true, it's just what I thought I read on this board.

Is this not true? Just some sort of dirty rotten rumor penned by someone with an ax to grind? 

T

I had also read this but it is a very slight defect from what I remember.  I have not been able to see any defect on my VS.

After seeing those pictures, that a bunch of parts that might be worth $2500.  I cannot imagine $5k for it.

That's kind of what I figured. More hype than reality. 

The way I see it, the old adage holds true: Buy the best example you can find to start with. This would NOT be the best example.

Alas, I keep looking.

Thanks again, guys.

Ted 

It is all of you guys fault.  12 yrs ago I bought a Marlene CMC factory built all ford running gear with V8 for $2500.  At the same time there were little speedsters for sale nice for about $5k.  We have created a monster  ; - )

Oh wow. So... the ad has been deleted. 

Could it really have sold?!

Wow.  I'm not sure how to feel here. Did I dodge a big dirty bullet or did I just miss a rare opportunity? 

Wow...

I'm in San Jose. But the car is gone!!!!!!!! No more ad.

-=theron

It needed the Butt Sag fix for sure!  That matt black look is in - you can spend extra and get a brand new Mercedes in matt finish.  Truely a neglected car.  But if someone wanted to build their custom Speedster it would have been a good project for under $3k. 

That cmc was worth $2899 tops

Hey Ted, good decision to pass on that car. There will undoubtedly be others in better shape available.

FWIW the fender bulge in older VS, it's true. I have a '95 VS that has a slight defect on the passenger side front fender. If you weren't aware of the defect or looking specifically for that particular flaw, its almost imperceptible. The problem with the body mold process had been fixed many years ago. 

Troy--somewhere I learned that the mold for the Speedster was taken from a car that had been repaired--I guess because of a wreck and that front area of the passenger side side was not straight.  If you sight down the side of a VS you can see that up front, the side is not exactly straight but turns very slightly outward.  Someone not familiar with autobody work would never notice it. Over the years bodies continued to be made made from that same mold without ever fixing the mold to correct that issue.

My VS  won two best of shows with that turned-out fender so it is so subtle that the judges never noticed it.

An interesting part of Speedster lore I guess.  

You know Fender Custom Shop makes what they call "Relic" Stratocasters. They make the guitar then purposefully set out to destroy it and folks pay high $$$ for them. This could be a "Relic" Speedster - you could advertise and sell it as such.

Yeah, I think that car had enough Patina for 3 more cars. If I'd have had a flatbed with me I think I may have talked myself into paying too much for it. It would have been an excellent project for somebody without two kids and a full time job.  Would it be rude of me to call the seller and ask him what he got for it?

Oh well, if that's my only 'the one that got away' story I acquire along this journey - I think I'll be okay.

FWIW - that was CMC #2105. Who wants to bet that we will see it again someday?

Ted

p.s.

Thanks for the info on the VS cellulite issue. Seems like a non-issue for a simple guy like me.

Even if you do call to inquire I would think you wouldnt get a real selling price  we will see it again as soon as the buyer realizes what he bought

My OCD mind wouldn't let it go. I called under the premise that I wasn't aware it had sold.  He apologized and said he sold it for $6500.00 cash, not an hour after I had left.  He was telling me 7k was his bottom dollar. So it kind of makes sense... sort of. Maybe that's the real number, maybe it's not.  It's none of my business really.

*shrug*

We'll see ole #2105 again, I'm sure. Hopefully the buyer joins here and we can help  get 'er back on the road and transformed into a reliable ride for years to come.

No sour grapes,
Ted

To follow up Crosby's comment on the right front VS fender bulge:

From the front it's almost imperceptible...but from the rear, on your knees, sighting down the line past the door there's a bulge just past the right wheel well as the shape curves toward the headlight. At a standing height looking down it isn't perceptible unless you're as paranoid as I am!

So do the JPS cars have the same bulge?  I have been under the impression that Vintage and JPS get their bodies from the same supplier.

I'm pretty sure I've seen it on both, Troy.  It's only noticeable if you know what and where to look.  It's not objectionable.

Just curious, how many different body suppliers are out there?  I thought the JPS bodies were different from the Vintage or CMC because of the frame and that there is enough room under the hood for the spare to mount in its original location? 

Hi,

JPS purchases the bodies from VS.

The same molds for fiberglass are not used forever - they get retired or destroyed. If a defect was known in the mold surely it would be remedied.  For Example - Early CMC versions had dimple for cutting and placing bits - later old casting didn't have those.

Checked yesterday, my 2007 build definitely has it.  It is probably much more noticeable if you have the thin chrome bode-side moulding.