CMC speedster exhaust

I really like the Hideway exhaust. Sets up high and sounds perfect--slight low tone on acceleration and quiet at cruising. Yes, the muffler is pulled for adjusting passenger side valves but that can/will be fixed (Thanks Dr. Clock) in spring by moving the hanger to the 2x2 frame to be able to get to cover. Muffler comes off in 5 minutes anyway. 

is there  a model number for this exhaust? who makes it? what diameter pipes is it?

I have a built 1776 and using a Vintage Speed exhaust.  I really like the look and the sound.  May not be as good of performance as some, but works very well for me. 

James

Looks great! Didn't I just see the rear view pic of your car in an advertisement for an engine builder in Texas?

I have an A-1 in my CMC with a center outlet. I did notch the body for the outlet. You can get it directly from A1 or from aircooled.net. Tell them it is for a Speedster replica.

I ordered mine when my engine was a 1776 and got 1.5" diameter. That size also works now that my engine is 2110.

Ha, still have original CMC supplied Anza/Monza quad tip muffler on my 1641 cc CMC.  Would like to upgrade.  Can ya post photos of exhausts with detail (part #/mods reqd)?  I like the snake look - I do want to retain heater boxes (not sure why since I'm in FL now).

@Zekester I installed A-1 Sidewinder exhaust on both of my VS. My previous VS came originally with 1776cc on which I later installed jugs/pistons for 1835cc, 1:25 rockers, dual single-throat Kadrons, A-1 Sidewinder with flanged heater box connections. Here are some pics & video for visual & audio reference.

On my current VS, standard 1915cc, I also have an A-1 Sidewinder. Its probably best to contact Tiger Vasquez (Owner/proprietor) at A-1 Performance Exhaust directly for your particular set-up. Hope you find this info helpful. 

A-1 Muffler, 721 Main St. , Santa Ana, CA 92701

Owner, Tiger Vasquez (714) 836-7201

(They do not have a website)

WOLFGANG posted:

Ha, still have original CMC supplied Anza/Monza quad tip muffler on my 1641 cc CMC.  Would like to upgrade.  Can ya post photos of exhausts with detail (part #/mods reqd)?  I like the snake look - I do want to retain heater boxes (not sure why since I'm in FL now).

Sell it!

I have a sidewinder with side exit on my car. CMC. It's been on 3 or different motors. It sits a bit low for my car. Now... that's really on me. The back of my car rides pretty low. I'm going to raise the hind end a bit and see if that improves the bonk factor.

Sounds greeaat. I run a 2054 stroker from CB Perf with head work from a builder in San Carlos.  I keep thinking about having a custom setup built by Vintage Speed. I want something more a'kin to the 911 'sport' muffler. Similar to what James has except for me?  I'm not a huge fan of the chrome tips & stainless steel. I just want flat black 3" stainless pipes sticking out the back. All go. No show.

I just recently replaced the exhaust on my CMC.  Went with the EMPI version of the sidewinder.  It has the down turned pipe that exits under the car.  I should have said HAD.  I have always wanted a center exit exhaust, so I took the car to a local exhaust shop and had the guy cut off the down turned pipe and route to the rear center and put on a stainless twin tip.  It sounds awesome, quiet at cruise but melodic on acceleration.  My original exhaust and typical CMC fitment required notching of the body and bumpers.  New bumper has yet to be installed (thanks Dr Clock) but will require no notching like original.

Oh, and you can adjust valves without removing muffler.  Does delete heater...

I'd put a heat shield on.

Probably not a bad idea Bill, and where the original monza exhaust cutouts were, I also always thought about doing it.  Fortunately it never became an issue.  However I am considering doing it on this setup if for no other reason than to give it a more finished look.  There is still some body work to be done back there to make it mirror on the floor ready!  I did fab up some heat shields for the j-tubes, so that part is taken care of. 

Oh, one more thing, and I assume all of the under car exit exhausts are about the same... With the original down-turned tailpipe, under the valence, the entire back end was like a drum.  The drone was not at all pleasant.  Maybe a bug or ghia is different.  Certainly metal and fiberglass do not have the same acoustical qualities, but I do not know how anybody could stand that noise for long, and certainly not in a car with a roof.  But now, extended past the body, it sounds absolutely wonderful.

Panhandle Bob posted:

Looks great! Didn't I just see the rear view pic of your car in an advertisement for an engine builder in Texas?

@Panhandle Bob

Yes, Randy Brown in Comfort, Texas (just north of San Antonio) is who built my engine.  He is using a pic of my car in his ads on The Samba.  Randy is a semi-retired, old time VW trained mechanic that once owned a shop and now builds engines as a hobby.  He loves 1776s and Type 4s.  Randy goes the extra mile to build a bulletproof engine such as using a counterweighted crank and balancing the rotating assembly, along with other typical upgrades.

I am very pleased with my engine.  Not a drag car, but better performance than an original.  Randy is not a budget price engine builder, but his quality is well worth the money!

James 

And there’s another one we need to know about!   They’re all over the place.....Old engine builders who know their craft but don’t want to have too many “in queue”.   Just enough to keep them busy.  

Thanks, James!

Sounds like Randy might be a good option (along with Pat) when I get to the new engine. Will have to see how far this one takes me or my patience runs out and I want more power. Looking for something larger than a 1776 so we will have to see. 

I can't  speak for the other A1 exhausts, but I have purchased 2 Sebring exhaust for my IM so far from Tiger personally...it took 6 months each instead of 3 as promised, neither of them didn't  fit as well as it should..for the Sebring at nearly $1000 US each, I expected reasonably decent quality. The body had to be cut on both my cars and the last one, the quality was so bad with the exhaust tip all jagged and unfinished not to mention the after sales warranty basically non existent. I would definitely order from now on from Vintage Speed for both quality and after sales service from hereon. 

Trust me...you don't want to see a close-up of the exhaust tip...

@James said- "I am very pleased with my engine.  Not a drag car, but better performance than an original." 

So...what did you build?

Not too exciting, Al.   It’s a 1776 with a bunch of CB parts, some budget bigger valve heads and ICTs.  It has a CB 2280 Cheater Cam, CB Maxi pump with filter, counterweighted crank and a Vintage Speed exhaust.  The complete rotating assembly was balanced by a aircraft shop in San Antonio. 

I was looking for a simple, reliable engine that required minimal maintenance.  Randy Brown is known in the central Texas VW community for building solid, reliable engines.  I enjoyed building and working on the car much more than building and working on an engine.  In my corner of the world VW expertise is sparse and I didn’t want to get into issues that would keep me from enjoying the car.  I had been done that path with a 1915cc that I previously had in a sand rail.  I had an issue with #3 plug fouling and was never able to find a local resource to help me after I had tried every possible thing I knew to try.  

This engine is very peppy, runs unbelievably smooth and doesn’t leak.  It’s not a monster, but like everything else in the car, it is built for functionality and reliability.  I did not cut any corners on this car, all new parts and everything is above average.  I’m very happy with the way it turned out.  

Seag8r posted:

I just recently replaced the exhaust on my CMC.  Went with the EMPI version of the sidewinder.  It has the down turned pipe that exits under the car.  I should have said HAD.  I have always wanted a center exit exhaust, so I took the car to a local exhaust shop and had the guy cut off the down turned pipe and route to the rear center and put on a stainless twin tip.  It sounds awesome, quiet at cruise but melodic on acceleration.  My original exhaust and typical CMC fitment required notching of the body and bumpers.  New bumper has yet to be installed (thanks Dr Clock) but will require no notching like original.

@Seag8r Got a pic of the muffler w/new pipe?

Bill Prout posted:

Seag8r posted:

I just recently replaced the exhaust on my CMC.  Went with the EMPI version of the sidewinder.  It has the down turned pipe that exits under the car.  I should have said HAD.  I have always wanted a center exit exhaust, so I took the car to a local exhaust shop and had the guy cut off the down turned pipe and route to the rear center and put on a stainless twin tip.  It sounds awesome, quiet at cruise but melodic on acceleration.  My original exhaust and typical CMC fitment required notching of the body and bumpers.  New bumper has yet to be installed (thanks Dr Clock) but will require no notching like original.

@Seag8r Got a pic of the muffler w/new pipe?

This and I'm curious how the exhaust performance is.

Can't find much about this exhaust and I struggle to see the differences compared to an A1... Is the collector really that different??

Bill Prout posted:

Seag8r posted:

I just recently replaced the exhaust on my CMC.  Went with the EMPI version of the sidewinder.  It has the down turned pipe that exits under the car.  I should have said HAD.  I have always wanted a center exit exhaust, so I took the car to a local exhaust shop and had the guy cut off the down turned pipe and route to the rear center and put on a stainless twin tip.  It sounds awesome, quiet at cruise but melodic on acceleration.  My original exhaust and typical CMC fitment required notching of the body and bumpers.  New bumper has yet to be installed (thanks Dr Clock) but will require no notching like original.

@Seag8r Got a pic of the muffler w/new pipe?

Sorry for the delayed response, holidays...   Here is a pic of the new pipe welded to muffler and extending to the tip. The guy cut off the downturned pipe right at the muffler and stuck this one on.  I would have preferred it go over rather than under, but after a couple of attempts he just could not make those bends.  Have to say I was a bit shocked by the surface rust already when I got under there to take the pic.  Comes with a coating they say will burn off and they do recommend painting or powdercoating, which I had planned to do three weeks from now when I drop motor to replace the shroud.  

*LongFella posted:

Bill Prout posted:

Seag8r posted:

I just recently replaced the exhaust on my CMC.  Went with the EMPI version of the sidewinder.  It has the down turned pipe that exits under the car.  I should have said HAD.  I have always wanted a center exit exhaust, so I took the car to a local exhaust shop and had the guy cut off the down turned pipe and route to the rear center and put on a stainless twin tip.  It sounds awesome, quiet at cruise but melodic on acceleration.  My original exhaust and typical CMC fitment required notching of the body and bumpers.  New bumper has yet to be installed (thanks Dr Clock) but will require no notching like original.

@Seag8r Got a pic of the muffler w/new pipe?

This and I'm curious how the exhaust performance is.

Can't find much about this exhaust and I struggle to see the differences compared to an A1... Is the collector really that different??

As far as performance goes, it is hard for me to say.  It certainly feels better than it did with a disintegrated 4 tip monza, but I have no numbers to substantiate.  For me it was an economical way to solve an problem until I build a bigger motor.  Mine is only a 1679, so an exhaust larger than 1 1/2 seemed stupid.  Just before this went on I also added dual kaddies.  So between those and this, it really came alive compared to the stock single carb and aforementioned monza.  The collector is not as clean I am sure as the A1, but it looked okay to me.

Seag8r posted:

*LongFella posted:

Bill Prout posted:

Seag8r posted:

I just recently replaced the exhaust on my CMC.  Went with the EMPI version of the sidewinder.  It has the down turned pipe that exits under the car.  I should have said HAD.  I have always wanted a center exit exhaust, so I took the car to a local exhaust shop and had the guy cut off the down turned pipe and route to the rear center and put on a stainless twin tip.  It sounds awesome, quiet at cruise but melodic on acceleration.  My original exhaust and typical CMC fitment required notching of the body and bumpers.  New bumper has yet to be installed (thanks Dr Clock) but will require no notching like original.

@Seag8r Got a pic of the muffler w/new pipe?

This and I'm curious how the exhaust performance is.

Can't find much about this exhaust and I struggle to see the differences compared to an A1... Is the collector really that different??

As far as performance goes, it is hard for me to say.  It certainly feels better than it did with a disintegrated 4 tip monza, but I have no numbers to substantiate.  For me it was an economical way to solve an problem until I build a bigger motor.  Mine is only a 1679, so an exhaust larger than 1 1/2 seemed stupid.  Just before this went on I also added dual kaddies.  So between those and this, it really came alive compared to the stock single carb and aforementioned monza.  The collector is not as clean I am sure as the A1, but it looked okay to me.

Thanks! How was the fit when installing?

A decent header and dual carbs will really change an engine (as you've already found out). And you are right; any larger than 1 1/2" would have been silly. I'm sure it's not built quite as nicely as the A1 Sidewinder, but the Empi Sideflow Merged Exhaust does look like a reasonable alternative. Do you have any pics where we can see the whole thing installed? Maybe from underneath? I like the center exit. Al

Seag8r posted:

Bill Prout posted:

Seag8r posted:

I just recently replaced the exhaust on my CMC.  Went with the EMPI version of the sidewinder.  It has the down turned pipe that exits under the car.  I should have said HAD.  I have always wanted a center exit exhaust, so I took the car to a local exhaust shop and had the guy cut off the down turned pipe and route to the rear center and put on a stainless twin tip.  It sounds awesome, quiet at cruise but melodic on acceleration.  My original exhaust and typical CMC fitment required notching of the body and bumpers.  New bumper has yet to be installed (thanks Dr Clock) but will require no notching like original.

@Seag8r Got a pic of the muffler w/new pipe?

Sorry for the delayed response, holidays...   Here is a pic of the new pipe welded to muffler and extending to the tip. The guy cut off the downturned pipe right at the muffler and stuck this one on.  I would have preferred it go over rather than under, but after a couple of attempts he just could not make those bends.  Have to say I was a bit shocked by the surface rust already when I got under there to take the pic.  Comes with a coating they say will burn off and they do recommend painting or powdercoating, which I had planned to do three weeks from now when I drop motor to replace the shroud.  

Thanks for the pic. I did the same but pulled it off as I noticed my car suddenly felt a little sluggish and ran hotter. I think adding that length of pipe should have been with a larger diameter for my 2110.

Bill Prout posted:

Seag8r posted:

Bill Prout posted:

Seag8r posted:

I just recently replaced the exhaust on my CMC.  Went with the EMPI version of the sidewinder.  It has the down turned pipe that exits under the car.  I should have said HAD.  I have always wanted a center exit exhaust, so I took the car to a local exhaust shop and had the guy cut off the down turned pipe and route to the rear center and put on a stainless twin tip.  It sounds awesome, quiet at cruise but melodic on acceleration.  My original exhaust and typical CMC fitment required notching of the body and bumpers.  New bumper has yet to be installed (thanks Dr Clock) but will require no notching like original.

@Seag8r Got a pic of the muffler w/new pipe?

Sorry for the delayed response, holidays...   Here is a pic of the new pipe welded to muffler and extending to the tip. The guy cut off the downturned pipe right at the muffler and stuck this one on.  I would have preferred it go over rather than under, but after a couple of attempts he just could not make those bends.  Have to say I was a bit shocked by the surface rust already when I got under there to take the pic.  Comes with a coating they say will burn off and they do recommend painting or powdercoating, which I had planned to do three weeks from now when I drop motor to replace the shroud.  

Thanks for the pic. I did the same but pulled it off as I noticed my car suddenly felt a little sluggish and ran hotter. I think adding that length of pipe should have been with a larger diameter for my 2110.

Interesting.  I have seen no increase in temp for sure, and no sluggishness, but again, that is all relative given my other changes.  It is as large as what goes in on the other side, pretty straight, and not that long.  That down turned pipe was awful for noise, and I would have removed for that had this not worked out!

*LongFella posted:

Seag8r posted:

*LongFella posted:

Bill Prout posted:

Seag8r posted:

I just recently replaced the exhaust on my CMC.  Went with the EMPI version of the sidewinder.  It has the down turned pipe that exits under the car.  I should have said HAD.  I have always wanted a center exit exhaust, so I took the car to a local exhaust shop and had the guy cut off the down turned pipe and route to the rear center and put on a stainless twin tip.  It sounds awesome, quiet at cruise but melodic on acceleration.  My original exhaust and typical CMC fitment required notching of the body and bumpers.  New bumper has yet to be installed (thanks Dr Clock) but will require no notching like original.

@Seag8r Got a pic of the muffler w/new pipe?

This and I'm curious how the exhaust performance is.

Can't find much about this exhaust and I struggle to see the differences compared to an A1... Is the collector really that different??

As far as performance goes, it is hard for me to say.  It certainly feels better than it did with a disintegrated 4 tip monza, but I have no numbers to substantiate.  For me it was an economical way to solve an problem until I build a bigger motor.  Mine is only a 1679, so an exhaust larger than 1 1/2 seemed stupid.  Just before this went on I also added dual kaddies.  So between those and this, it really came alive compared to the stock single carb and aforementioned monza.  The collector is not as clean I am sure as the A1, but it looked okay to me.

Thanks! How was the fit when installing?

Fit was just fine.  No issues.

1679? 

How did you arrive at that displacement?  1600. 1641. 1776. 1835. 1915. Those are all the common displacement variations that Im aware of.  You can get into a few others with different stroke variations. Never come across 1679 before.

Edit: Whoa!?! 

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=19576 

Apparently it is somewhat of an old school variant sometimes referred to as a 1700.  Learn something new everyday! (This ia where Gordon and Al school us youngins with our fancy stroked out new age motors. "You kids have it easy... Back in my day we had thin walled cylenders and we liked it!!")

Ted

They still sell 88mm piston sets, http://vwparts.aircooled.net/P...-T1-p/mahlet188c.htm

TRP posted:

1679? 

How did you arrive at that displacement?  1600. 1641. 1776. 1835. 1915. Those are all the common displacement variations that Im aware of.  You can get into a few others with different stroke variations. Never come across 1679 before.

Edit: Whoa!?! 

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=19576 

Apparently it is somewhat of an old school variant sometimes referred to as a 1700.  Learn something new everyday! (This ia where Gordon and Al school us youngins with our fancy stroked out new age motors. "You kids have it easy... Back in my day we had thin walled cylenders and we liked it!!")

Ted

Yep.  Not saying the 1679 is ideal with the thin walled cylinders, and it is one reason why I am particularly sensitive to heat.  My father and and I originally built this car and motor almost 30 years ago, and that is what we used.  Perhaps I should say it adds rare collectibility value?  LOL

TRP posted:

1679?... Apparently it is somewhat of an old school variant sometimes referred to as a 1700.  Learn something new everyday! (This is where Gordon and Al school us young ones with our fancy stroked out new age motors. "You kids have it easy... Back in my day we had thin walled cylinders and we liked it!!")

Ted

Ok class-

88mm big bore sets were one of the first aftermarket kits available, and I think they were originally designed (pin size and height) for the 1200 40hp engine. They increased it's displacement to almost 1600 (1557) cc's and the cylinders were thick enough so distortion by overheating wasn't normally an issue and gave good life (not to be confused with the later Claude's Buggies 88mm "slip in" cylinders for the 1500/1600 engine that were notorious for not keeping their shape). You did have to machine both the case and heads, the only way to fit a larger diameter cylinder with proper thickness.

Even the thinwalled 87's, 88's and 92's will last a surprisingly long time IF the engine is reasonably mild, compression is set within reasonable limits for the combo and never thermally overloaded. The problem with them is it only takes a couple? few? overheating incidents and they start to lose their shape, making it harder for the rings to seal, the piston no longer fitting the barrel properly and now the engine is down on power and creates more heat just running and overheats sooner.

Class dismissed...

And Ted- Spelling mistakes above have been corrected; please take note and write each 50 times to make sure you don't make the same mistakes again...

And for those who've never heard of Claude's Buggies- it's what CB Performance was called originally (and now you know what the CB stands for).

You can get both thin wall 88 mm drop in P&C (they take a bad rap for distorting but in a light car with proper cooling are ok - not in a bus for sure) and machine in ones that have thicker walls.  I have a 1990 set of new German Mahle thin wall 88 mm P&C that are far better than new stuff from Far East.

I did a search on 88 mm P&C - the new Far East (no-name to AA) ones are $106-180 a set where a new set of Mahle 88 mm ones are (gulp) $435.  For some reason folks do call them 1700 cc engines - but they are 21 cc short.

I still have the Ansa Monza quad tip on my (zero miles) CMC - It fit perfectly without cutting the rear apron or bumper.  It was close so I heated exhaust pipe connection to muffler with a torch and bent them down just slightly to give a good 1/2" clearance.  Guess it just depends on how pan was cut and rewelded back.  If anyone is interested I still have an extra NOS (never used) quad tip muffler - just PM me.  

Back on the subject of exhausts, here is an example of how my Vintage Speed exhaust sounds.  

James the car looks and sounds awesome.  

"And for those who've never heard of Claude's Buggies- it's what CB Performance was called originally (and now you know what the CB stands for)."

ALB... I am old enough it looks like.... to remember Claude's Buggies  they advertised in the first edition of VWGreats if I remember right.

WOLFGANG posted:

I did a search on 88 mm P&C - the new Far East (no-name to AA) ones are $106-180 a set where a new set of Mahle 88 mm ones are (gulp) $435.  For some reason folks do call them 1700 cc engines - but they are 21 cc short.

I think it just makes it easier to remember- a 1600 is actually 1585, and 1500 only 1493 (and on and on), but the difference is so small that it doesn't matter.