CMC Vehicle number

Bruce, I'm not the expert here and I will let some of the more advanced members ask more intelligent questions or offer their sound advice. However, the exterior definitely belies the engine bay. "An '84 Porsche frame", hmmmmmm, some pictures of that would be helpful I'm sure. As many say here, more pictures please.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com...ds7/mn1138556312.jpg

Above shows where the engine # should be. According to Pelican Engine #s are like 901/xx or 911/xx or 930/xx....

901 is 2.0 to 2.2, 911 is 2.4 to 2.7 and 930 is the 3.0 and up....the xx spot will tell you what the block started out as....hp, year of build, turbo, carbs, CIS, blah blah, etc...

Would be quite difficult to use a complete Porsche frame as they are a unibody vehicle that requires the steel body for support (unlike the VW remove-able pan). Would be nice if indeed a 3.2L '84 engine.

Not sure what they were thinking with the 914 gauges.  They can be arranged in the traditional 356 3 gauge arrangement. Probably an easy fix.

I like the painted previously chromed bits. Great find - not your std DIYer built CMC!

Sorry cant get any more pictures, the car is in Storage 3 hours away, 

Thanks for the information. but no numbers, either ground off ? the previous owner had it taken to a mechanic, presale  inspection, That is where we came up with 79 engine,  and it also looks like there is a bit of a tube sub frame, with the body built around it, 

I have to agree with the gauges, but yes an easy fix, 

thanks

They've all got a tube subframe, Bruce, but what you've got there is special. The 911 engine makes it so.

However, I'm not really sure what you're asking. These things are titled many different ways, but you're never going to get more information that you've already got. Everybody titles and registers these things in one of three ways:

The one most guys use is to just use the VIN stamped on the VW pan (if so equipped). I have no idea if you have a pan or not. You indicated it's built on a 911 "frame"-- but as Wolfgang pointed out, 911s are uni-body cars, and have no frame. Unless this car was built on a custom pan-replacement frame (and some were, Metal-craft, etc), there's a VW pan and VIN. It'd be located on the tunnel, under the carpet, just in front of the rear "seats".

Some cars were titled and registered as "special construction" cars with a state issued VIN- yours doesn't have that, and I'd avoid going in that direction. It subjects you to emissions testing for the year of manufacture (the year they titled it), which your state may or may not have-- but if you sell it down the road, it's a big deal.

Some states have "SEMA titles". These allow a guy to legally title and register a car as a "1957 Speedster Replica", or some derivation on that theme. California has SB100 titles that are similar, but limited in availability-- these titles are really coveted, as they are completely legal, and allow a replica to totally avoid emissions.

There are guys who have used title companies to create Porsche titles out of clean cloth. There are guys who have taken VIN plates off wrecked 356s or 911s, and affixed them to their cars, and titled them thus. There are guys who have just made up Porsche VINs and filed for lost titles. I'd avoid all of these, as fraud is generally punishable by large fines and jail time.

Your car has a title somewhere. That's probably what you'd take to the DOT, or driver's facility in your state. It might not be right, but getting it changed would open a huge can of worms.

Forewarned is Forearmed.

GOOD CATCH RICH!!

I went back to the left rear 3/4 view (first photo) and it certainly appears that there's a rear body extension to that widebody. Notice the spacing between the top edge of the engine lid and the snaps, and the increased space between the edge of the rear bumper and the wheel opening. Who made this body??

Bruce, are you indeed the new owner or just contemplating being that? I'm a little confused already (which happens to me all the time lately).

Seriously thinking about buying this car,  not mine yet, drove the three hours to look at it on the weekend, now I am waiting for government offices to open Monday to see what I need to do to register the car, 

Bruce, there seems to be a few loose ends with this car (numbers ground off). You say you are new here. Don't get overly anxious, there are plenty to choose from (maybe all not like this particular one). Do some homework, you'll be happy you did. BTW, where are you located? The looks of that engine bay photo still looks like it doesn't belong to the exterior. Are those your photos or supplied to you photos?

Something seems odd here and the gauges seem to be the least of the problem.

It is strange that such a sharp looking highly modified car hasn't shown up here on SOC in past.  Not expert on 911 engines but I'd ask owner where serial number is located (and if gone - why?).  I'd check for one on the trans too (assume it has the Porsche 5 spd transmission vs a Type 1 weak 4 speed). Before making trip ask owner to scan in and send a copy of the title and take that to your state's DMV. I'd be cautious of it being registered as a "1984 Porsche" - is there a model listed? (Without "replica" or "special construction").  Assume it has a Michigan assigned (and sticker is still intact on car? looks like recent repaint so might have been removed) VIN?  I'd also check for the VW VIN (chassis #) on the center tunnel. Grinding off serial #'s raises a big red flag to me (many VW factory rebuild T1 engines had ground off or replaced engine serial # though). Would be nice if owner still has the original CMC Certificate of Origin (looks like a Florida car title).

The photos of rear do indeed look as thought the body was stretched to fit a longer Porsche transmission and engine into the car.  It looks like it was very well done - no weird bumps or unusual body lines. Assume under chassis supports match that attention to detail (which doesn't extend to gauges on dash for some reason). (Note - a 914/4 Tach will not read correctly on a 6 cylinder engine - it could be from a rarer 914/6 or have been modified). 

If it works out you will have a very unique powerful car.  Just keep in mind that real Porsche parts and maintenance are $$$. 

Looking forward to more pictures and details! 

Thanks Rich and Wolfgang, yes something does feel odd about this car, main reason I am looking for advice here. The Pictures have been sent to me, but I have seen the car. The Short story on the car is some guy back in 04 imported it to Canada and let it sit, got divorced, sold it to another individual who stored it and is now selling it again. If I get all the paper work and approval from Transport Canada, which is a learning experience all its own, I will make an offer, based on a drive, mech. inspections and also I want to look around the car once on a hoist. Plus I am putting a list together from all the advice I get off this forum.

One thing I do remember now. it that it has the VW heater controls on the floor, not hooked up but there. I am now thinking it is a VW pan, unless the 911 had the same set up.

The Michigan Title states, Make Porsche Model Porsche nothing about assembled vehicle and nothing on the door jam, 

I have a attached another Speedster I am looking at, $4000.00 more, cleaner documented  history and rebuilt motor

Certainly the second one looks more traditional, non widebody, and is a clean palate to which you can add your own touches should you desire. What is the power train makeup on the second one, brakes, etc?

These two cars don't share much of anything under the skin, and with the extended body and wheel well treatment, they don't even share that. What do you really want other than a car that looks like a Speedster? Not trying to be difficult but your looking at very different places on the spectrum.

A Porsche powered widebody with some interesting anomalies on the one hand versus a Type 1 powered traditional look Speedster on the other. One looks to be made by an individual or has morphed over time as it passed through owners and the other pretty much straight up VS or other factory build.

If the engine serial numbers are removed and you end up needing to go through a physical inspection of the car by the state, you'll need to have some explanation as to why the numbers are missing. I could see that being a problem, but I've only heard of that happening, not experienced it myself.

I have the affliction of seeing advantages and beauty in most everything Speedster and struggled to narrow my own search to what makes sense for me based on drive season limitations, my driving skill level, maintenance and customization costs, etc.

Let see unique 200 HP classic Porsche drive train and you save $4000 over a mild 75 hp version...  Easy decision if it can be easily registered and drives like it should.

restamping an engine isat all that hard,none of my new engine case have any numbers either.witch makes for a nice numbers matching plastic car. I would love to have that red 911 powered streched cmc in my yard.did anyone notice the sweet windshield&frame??the things I could do with that car.

I owned this car several years ago and sold it to Nat at Lance motors.  The story goes.....it was built for the president of Classic Motors and If I remember correctly it is in fact mounted on a 911 with the body cut off. Pictures of the trunk area will confirm this and the body had to be streched between the engine cover and rear tub.  I think they added 10 inches to it.  When I had the car it was painted black with gold BBS type wheels.

   That's my story and I'm stickin to it!  Tom (Dr.Clocks protege at the time)

and now we have the rest of the story..... or was that the begining?? where is the middle??

So, it's all P car under the skin and the skin was made to fit. Consistent with what Bruce was told assuming no changes to the drive train, braking system etc. during the interim. Interesting.  

I've been waiting for Vinny to exclaim how sexy that 10" extension is...and for Gerrrd to retort!!!!

Porscheavw, how come you never listed this car in your profile? This 911 "frame" and CMC body seems to be a freak of nature. Pictures up on a rack would be helpful, eh?

I didnt own it long but I think I may be able to stir up some pics.  Bruce..e-mail me at toms356a@yahoo.com

Bruce:

Where are you in Canada?

Bruce, if you type below the quote the print will be larger.

yeah but type in all caps and you're really shouting!  THAT'S ONE COOL RED CAR!