Compufire ignition

You're replacing the distributor or the whole engine?

Whole engine....

Thanks!

Dave

Ideal is a crank-fire ignition. A bit fiddly to set up though. If this is the setup you're looking at, maybe? Same idea as a crank-fire but it takes the signal through a distributor and it's not clear to me how (if?) you could then "program" your timing curve. That's where the fun is.

I don't know if anyone on this board has this exact setup.

Compufire also makes a normal hall effect module that just replaces the points and condenser in your distributor. That's usually a fine solution too although of late these modules have gotten flaky. Pertronix and Compufire may be made by the same factory?

The 009 distributors these Type 1 VW engines usually have are a known weak point, often giving a "flat spot" just off idle and/or spark scatter in the low mid RPM range. Some of this issue is mechanical—the parts are copies of copies of German stuff from 50 years ago, and tolerances are no longer what they once might have been. Some of it is just tuning—the 009 is a very simple mechanical advance distributor originally designed for use on industrial engines that tended to run a more or less constant RPM.

So some guys go with the Magnaspark which is tunable in the old school way, with springs and such. Best to use that with a regular 3 ohm coil, it is said, as the ones that come with the kit tend to fail.

I installed a CB "Black Box" ahead of the 009 in my Spyder, which is now "locked out" with no advance. That allowed me to run a MAP sensor for part throttle advance, and dial in the spark advance with a laptop. Not quite as spiffy as a crankfire setup (as it's getting the signal from that wobbly 009 shaft instead of directly from the crank), but it definitely works well so far.

Anyway...if you're building an engine and you have an experienced and trustworthy engine builder may be he or she will offer the best and most relevant advice. If you plan to go with fuel injection then definitely go with crank-fire.

123 ignition over in Europe uses a standard-looking Bosch distributor with the advance mechanism locked and then fiddles with the advance curve via software and their electronics.  Those have been around for a while and were/are quite the rage with the original 356 set in New England.  You can supposedly adjust your timing curve via your smaht phone while driving or adjust it for different fuels/altitudes.

https://123ignition.com

The problem with the 123 is the same as the problem with a locked out 009 and a Black Box - they still rely on an electronic pickup living under a tiny distributor clamp. It's hot in there, and the cap is really tiny for any reasonably hot spark.

The Magnaspark. is "fine", in the way that your wife is "fine" when you've been a bonehead and are in the doghouse. There are workarounds in both situations, but the best approach is to avoid going there to start with.

I feel like I was swayed by the hype on this (and other) sites surrounding the Magnaspark, and went the wrong way with it. The hot setup (IMHO) would be a locked out MSD (or Chinese copy) distributor with a big cap and simple magnetic pickup triggering a programmable CDI box driving a hot E-core coil.

There is a lot to love there - the programming available with a 123 and Black-Box, but with multiple spark at low RPM and a much hotter spark across the RPM range. It's not crank-fire, but it's all off-the-shelf parts and not an erector-set waiting to be built. It's still got the old-skool hot-rod vibe, without the old-skool limitations.

Boy, am I old school ( I actually did walk a couple of miles to high school - argh, and ran on cross country and track teams to boot)!

I have a couple of DELTA MARK TEN Capacitive Discharge (CD) Ignition Systems.  I ran one on a '72 Porsche 914 and the other on a '66 TR Spitfire.  The one used on the 914 was a Radio Shack Archer kit (again dating myself) built by my dad and I - I guess 50 years ago.   

It gives a much hotter spark so plugs and points last longer - no more horsepower but probably a bit more gas mileage. There's a guy on SAMBA that tests, fixes, and resells them.  See photo. They go for about $150 now! You hear a hi-pitch whine that probably gets every dog in a 2-mile radius' attention so you know it's working (or not - a button lets you revert to std ignition).  It can be used with the new Petroix points for a trouble-free electronic ignition.  Definitely old school!

This just in. The Magnaspark module died today.

Ridiculous.

@Stan Galat posted:

This just in. The Magnaspark module died today.

Ridiculous.

That’s what you call your “Instant Karma.”

@Stan Galat posted:

The Magnaspark. is "fine", in the way that your wife is "fine" when you've been a bonehead and are in the doghouse. There are workarounds in both situations, but the best approach is to avoid going there to start with.

Correct

@Stan Galat posted:

Correct

FWIW, I have an MSD distributor if you’re interested. I don’t know nothing about “locked out.”

https://www.speedsterowners.com/topic/msd-8485

I’m going crankfire. I’m done with this nonsense.

Aaaah... The Mark 10B's and a Lumenition Optical trigger ! The absolute cat's meow in 1975...In this case on a Maserati (Tour de France) "mule" ! Up on the Firewall

ReV

@Stan Galat posted:

I’m going crankfire. I’m done with this nonsense.

There you go! It is inevitable. Muah ha ha ha!

I'm done with Compufire and Mallory ignitions I started to use this 4-5 cars back and it works w/o issues.                                                                                                                   

Billet Pertronix Flame-Thrower Distributor - EMPI 9444-B (v-dubstore.com)                       

@Alan Merklin posted:

I'm done with Compufire and Mallory ignitions I started to use this 4-5 cars back and it works w/o issues.                                                                                                                   

Billet Pertronix Flame-Thrower Distributor - EMPI 9444-B (v-dubstore.com)                       

Did you put any miles on any of them?

One issue with the Pertronix billet system is how they age in a humid environment.  After several years in Charleston's swampy climate the centrifugal advance springs in mine rusted away completely and the weights themselves rusted to where they wouldn't move properly anyway.  Some of you who attended the 2017 Tour de Smo' will; remember my issues there.  I had to do the last bit of it with the springs out of a couple of ball-point pins as replacements.  Needless to say, that wasn't ideal.

@LI-Rick posted:

Did you put any miles on any of them?

I think it's strictly bolt it on, test it, then out the door it goes.

There was a time, not long ago, that I thought I heard that Magnaspark was the bomb. Clearly better than an old 009 even  with petronics "points". Which is what I was running.  And so I got one, whole kit with their coil too. Plug and play, and notably better. And now I hear that these things are shyt, and fail left and right. Well f**** me.  Keep a 3 ohm coil handy, seems to be the good advice.

I’m on my second MagnaSpark and have had very good luck with both of them.

I bought one of the original systems back in 1997(!) including their big, clunky, rectangular “dry pack” coil.  Installed everything, placing the coil on the driver’s side inner wheel well to keep it from engine heat soak.  It ran flawlessly for 20 years when I replaced it.  That old MagnaSpark went to Jeff Booth and I think it’s now in his race car and still going strong.

I replaced it with a MagnaSpark II which has the big, HEI-Style disti cap like a Mallory or MSD system, rather than the puny, little disti cap of a 009.  Again, the coil mounts to the inner wheel well, not to the base of the disti or on the fan shroud.  

Both of those systems have given me a stable spark with no bouncing around using an inductive timing light.  I haven’t noticed any rusting inside the new disti, even though it gets really moist in my garage in the spring with changing weather conditions (which cause a lot of my tools to rust) but given Lane’s experience, I’ll give the weights a look and make sure everything is free and easy - They sit on top of the advance mechanism and are easy to check.  

I also used @Sacto Mitch’s tip and changed one of my advance springs to a weaker one to give me an advance curve much closer to an original 356 (Sorry, I can’t remember the color of the springs used).

Given all that, I get a strong, even spark and the engine runs really smoothly so I’ve got no complaints.  Would I consider a crank-fire system?  Sure - But what I have will have to die, first.

And as far as spares, I try to carry spares for what is unique (read that, “can’t readily find it at a NAPA store”).   I carry a spare disti rotor and cap and a single, spare HEI plug wire long enough to get to cylinder 1.  I should carry a spare disti module but haven’t gotten around to that, yet.  When I went to order one they were back-ordered.  Someday soon…….

@Lane Anderson posted:

One issue with the Pertronix billet system is how they age in a humid environment.  After several years in Charleston's swampy climate the centrifugal advance springs in mine rusted away completely and the weights themselves rusted to where they wouldn't move properly anyway.  Some of you who attended the 2017 Tour de Smo' will; remember my issues there.  I had to do the last bit of it with the springs out of a couple of ball-point pins as replacements.  Needless to say, that wasn't ideal.

Txs Gordo, for your testimonial, it offers some reason for hope. I will agree about the smoother operation: instant start, steady idle, smooth response over all RPMs.  Of note: concurrent with the new ignition  install I had one of our cherished Weber whisperers give my carbs his special version of TLC. Adjustments were made, and better balance among the four throats was achieved. Which of these has made the difference? Hard to say if one or the other. Lets just say yes and yes, both. Engine has never run better.