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Hello all. Clearly I'm a newbie to the board. Actually I'm a newbie to the kitcar world. I've spent years wrenching on my various bikes and sports cars. I've always dreamed of building my own plane but I've finally come to realize that time and money constraints are going to keep that plan exactly what it is...a dream. That being the case, I've made the decision to pursue a from-the-frame-up car build. No small task in itself, but easier than a plane.

I want to build something truly different. I want to design and fabricate some limited number of my own parts and use that engineering degree that I earned but don't really use in my professional life anymore. I'm hoping to ping to the community to see if a) anybody's heard of something like this being done & b) you can think of any glaring deal-breakers that I'm missing before I make a large commitment to the project. So, before I ramble you all to death, here's the plan:

I want to install a 1300cc Suzuki Hayabusa motor in a TR 550. For those that aren't familiar with the busa, it's an I-4 engine that puts out 100lb-ft and 175hp in stock trim. It's got an integrated 6-speed sequential tranny and the final gearing could be easily adjusted by changing the sprocket size. And best of all, it weighs diddly squat. The closest thing I've found to this idea is a completely custom project called the "Lozuki" (hstrial-jdespelder.homestead.com/LozukiProjectCar.html).

So bottom line:
Here's the engine:
hstrial-jdespelder.homestead.com/files/Dscf1659.jpg
hstrial-jdespelder.homestead.com/files/lozu3-03-09.jpg
Here's an example of the mid-engine setup:
hstrial-jdespelder.homestead.com/files/5-030012.JPG

I really think this could make a great & unique car. My major concerns are the height of the engine and getting adequate flow to the radiator and oil cooler. What does the community think? Am I nuts?
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Hello all. Clearly I'm a newbie to the board. Actually I'm a newbie to the kitcar world. I've spent years wrenching on my various bikes and sports cars. I've always dreamed of building my own plane but I've finally come to realize that time and money constraints are going to keep that plan exactly what it is...a dream. That being the case, I've made the decision to pursue a from-the-frame-up car build. No small task in itself, but easier than a plane.

I want to build something truly different. I want to design and fabricate some limited number of my own parts and use that engineering degree that I earned but don't really use in my professional life anymore. I'm hoping to ping to the community to see if a) anybody's heard of something like this being done & b) you can think of any glaring deal-breakers that I'm missing before I make a large commitment to the project. So, before I ramble you all to death, here's the plan:

I want to install a 1300cc Suzuki Hayabusa motor in a TR 550. For those that aren't familiar with the busa, it's an I-4 engine that puts out 100lb-ft and 175hp in stock trim. It's got an integrated 6-speed sequential tranny and the final gearing could be easily adjusted by changing the sprocket size. And best of all, it weighs diddly squat. The closest thing I've found to this idea is a completely custom project called the "Lozuki" (hstrial-jdespelder.homestead.com/LozukiProjectCar.html).

So bottom line:
Here's the engine:
hstrial-jdespelder.homestead.com/files/Dscf1659.jpg
hstrial-jdespelder.homestead.com/files/lozu3-03-09.jpg
Here's an example of the mid-engine setup:
hstrial-jdespelder.homestead.com/files/5-030012.JPG

I really think this could make a great & unique car. My major concerns are the height of the engine and getting adequate flow to the radiator and oil cooler. What does the community think? Am I nuts?
Put in two of them side by side driving seperate rear wheels. Now that would be COOL!!

Okay, seriously, I think torque will be your issue. The 'busa is incredible but the 100 lbs of torque is not out of the hole, in fact it seems to me the 100 lbs of torque is at something like 6000 rpm?

The 'busa motor deserves a really cool home. How about a smaller lighter vehicle? I've seen people build amazing little formula cars out of this type of power train. The weight is down around 600 or 700 lbs. They use the motorbike handlbars for the controls but I don't remember how they were shifting it. Maybe it was a handshifter like a shifty cart.

But if you do decide to put it into a spyder and you need someone to take measurements of theirs for you to flesh out your idea, let me know. More than glad to run a tape measure for you!
angela
Wow! Quick reply. Thanks for the thoughts Angela. I read some of your previous posts while poking around the site earlier and saw that you have a CBR600. I thought you might find the time to toss me a bone on this as a fellow bike enthusiast. A couple of things:

First, you have NO IDEA how funny it is that you immediately suggested 2 engines. I had been seriously contemplating a dual busa engine project using a 240Z as the donor car. But I have pretty much abandoned the idea as too complicated and inefficient. Mostly because there
Why would you want to make a slower Spyder? The weight difference between a Type IV powered Spyder and a Suzuki powered Spyder would never make up for the lack of torque. You would also lose some of your weight advatage by needing an IRS setup instead of a swing axle. Now make a 3/4 scale Spyder with one seat and you may have something (sort of a Spyder-Legends hybrid).
Don,
As far as the chain adjustment, good point... Gotta do that. I've never seen this before on any bike, but what if you made a tensioner pulley that would automatically correct for the slack. Then you the two ends (power train and axle) could remain stationary while the chain itself was adjustable. Kind of like a derailluer assemlby on a single-speed bike. Just keeps the chain at the right tension and allows servicing without taking the chain apart at the link. If you did something like that, it would allow you to change the sprocket size on the back (and change the gearing) without breaking the chain.

Bear in mind I have NO engineering background. Just alot of enthusiasm for thinking outside the box.

In college a friend of mine and I built my Fiat X19 with a port-injected mazda 13b rotary and a fiero getrag transaxle. Couple a beers and a sawzall....

By the way, sold the CBR yesterday. Looking at buying a VFR 800. But the two engine things, I wasn't joking. I was serious. Remember the Peugeot rally cars with two engines? INSANE!! And the bad part is they had to start with Peugeot, you have a worthwhile engine!!
angela
For the twin engined idea check out www.ultimasports.co.uk for a peek at a twin Busa powered sports car.

There are a TON of Busa powered cars out there now. I saw a couple first hand at Grattan Raceway in Michigan last year. Awesome machines, but dogs off the line. There's that torque thing coming into play.

My main concern would be the sound. Call me a bit of a purist, but hearing a shriek of a I-4 motorcycle engine coming out of a Spyder is just wrong.

But, cool project none the less. Keep us posted! I for one want to see the results of this!

By the way, I'm a motorcycle nut too. Currently have 7 Ducati's, 1 Honda and 1 Yamahahahahaha.

Doug
A Type IV with equal HP (but more torque) to the Suzuki is in the $10,000 range if purchase already built. Half that if you do it yourself. I am saving up for a Type IV for the day my Type I explodes.

I prefer not to row the transmission all the time. When autocrossing I put it in second and leave it there unless I absolutely have to shift.
Thanks Laing, $10,000 is more than I was hoping to spend on the engine. I appreciate the info.

I am a little confused though. Let me make sure I'm digesting this right. A Type IV is more advanced than a Type I. A $10K Type IV puts out around 185hp. You have a Type I that puts out something like 300hp. Am I missing something here?
one fairly popular busa powered car is the lotus seven replica. I have seen a few powered that way.

check this link out for an interesting discussion and there is an imbedded link to an interesting one off car being designed and built for that powerplant.

www.gt40s.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=
0&Board=UBB13&Number=51170&Searchpage=1&Main=
51161&Words=hayabusa&topic=&Search=true#Post51170

Mike
I have an idea for a twin engine car. How about two Yamaha RX-1 snowmobile engines and twinning them to a single tranny. Not quite sure of all the details but it would be fun for sure. I think that these motors are aroun 170 hp stock and guys are getting close to 300 hp out of them with a turbo. I don't know how much torque but with 600 hp on tap it would be a fun ride. Tractor pull guys have been using 4,5,6 motors for years so it can be done.
Thanks for the thoughts guys and gals.

Can anybody tell me what the approximate weight of the recommended VW Flat-4 engines is? I'm just looking for ballpark here. I'm guessing there's not much difference between the 1900cc & 2100cc engines most people are running so either weight will do.

For those interested in following the evolution of this project plan, I've probably going to build a TR 718RSK car instead of the 550. Setup for both is about the same, but I like the more exotic looks of the RSK. Also, it's rarity/unknownness will make my crazy drivetrain seem less offensive to the purist in me. Engine choices that I'm currently pursuing are a highly tuned Suzuki TLR motor that would be bored and stroked from 996cc to 1190cc. I would be looking at ~160hp at the crank(high in the rev-range as previously discussed). Or a supercharged Honda 1500cc flat-6 out of a Goldwing or Valkyrie. This engine weighs more (about 300lbs vs. 160lbs for the TLR V-twin), but it offers several advantages:
-F6 config would be easy to fit in the car
-Like the TLR about 160hp, but it's at 6K rpm. Peak torque is about 145ft-lbs at 4K with over 100 available as low as 3K.
-Engine would not be tuned within an inch of its life like the TLR
-shaft drive makes for simple translation to car
-common kits to convert goldwings into trikes means the tranaxle setup becomes much easier
-Goldwing's already come with an electric reverse function so I wouldn't need an expensive reversing box like either the busa or TLR engines
-The F6 sound would not at all be out of place in the car
-Last, but not least: It looks freakin COOL! www.lamonster.com/images/blowerstore.jpg

Keep the thoughts and comments coming.
Horsepower isn't everything. On the dragstrip HP is king but on the street and autocross bottom and midrange torque is more useful. You cannot always be at the right RPM exiting a corner to get HP out of a narrow powerband engine, but with an engine with a wide torquey powerband, it doesn't matter so much what RPM you are at as long as you aren't lugging it. Shifting too much can slow you down.

I bought a used spyder that had a turbo engine in it. The engine definitely looks great with all those ceramic coated pipes everywhere. I actually haven't driven the car much. The clutch was cooked when I got the car and wouldn't put any power to the ground. I have had the car diassembled since December (bought in November) replacing on the clutch, charging system and fan shroud. The clutch problem turned out to be a hydraulic linkage problem and I had to fabricate some brackets to relocate the throttle body linkage to clear the new DTM fan shroud. I hope to put the engine back in this weekend. I may get attached to the turbo motor after I drive it a while. I am also looking into different turbo housings to shift the power range to lower RPMs.
I have a TLS and love the low end torque but I would definatly go with the Goldwing/Valkerie motor. Lower more useable power band. TL motors have no problem moving 600lbs of bike and rider but in a 1400lbs car might be a different story. I don't think that any TL motor will put out 145ft/lbs of torque at 6000rpm. I want to see pictures of this as you go. Sound like it will be a very interesting car.
Thanks Glen, After talking to a TL motor expert in the UK some more I've decided that I don't think the V-twin is going to work for me. I'd just have to tune the engine too highly to get the power I'm looking for. The Honda 1500cc F6 is looking like a much better overall solution even when taking the extra weight into account. The only other engine option I'm going to spend some time looking into is the 1300cc V-4 from the Yamaha V-max power cruiser.

I've spoken to the folks out at Thunder Ranch and I'm going to take a side trip down to San Diego to see them next time I go to LA on business. That'll allow me to take some measurements and really start to get a feel for what I'll have to do in terms of the rear suspension setup. I won't be starting on this project seriously until late November, in the mean time I'll have to finally get around to learning enough html to keep a basic website of the project so I can share pictures.
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