Conversion advice

correction: 5 lug drum brakes on the back, not disc.

Fuchs are 5x130 bolt pattern, not 5x205 "wide 5".

All the rear wide 5 drums and rotor I've seen have a protruding center section that would prevent mounting a 5x130 or 4x130 wheel directly to it. I've never heard of any 5x205->5x130 adapters. If you want to run the smaller pattern, you'll probably have to replace the drums or rotors.

You can't redrill a 4x130 or 5x130 rotor to 5x205. The rotor face isn't big enough.

You can redrill a 4x130 rotor to 5x130, but it is a bit weaker (holes no longer intersect the strengthening webs) and you'll need to get the holes spot faced on the rear for stud use. In my opinion, not enough material thickness left to safely run lug bolts afterwards.

Thanks Justin! 

Bob,

I went from 4 lug disc front/4 lug drum rear to 5x130 all the way around on my 2006 VS, using the empi adapters and buying the empi 5.5x15 fuch replica wheels.  I have had no problems with clearance or adapter failures.  Unless you are driving hard on a regular basis I would suspect these adapters would be fine.  I have not heard of any of them failing for several years now.  I don't know what would be the best solution for the rear, but somebody here will.  Good luck.  I love the look of fuchs on these little cars.

If you have studs on front now - they aren't original.  They probably have allen wrench cut out in center to install/remove them.  The adapters have low profile bolts so clearance isn't issue.  They add track width so the wheels get spaced out further - which is good in front as it fills wheel well a bit. I think replacement rotor drilled way you need ($85 each) are priced about the same as adapters (not listed at CIP1 - guess $125 pair).  With the new rotors you might want to go with 1/4 or 3/8" spacers though.

If you go adaptor, make sue you hand tighten and don't over torque the nuts as the adaptor (alum) threads strip real easy.

Bob-

You've got several options (ranging from cheap and easy to better and more expensive) if you want to go 5x 205. If you want to go 5x 130 and this point, get out your checkbook.

To clarify, this is the current setup in pictures. first picture is of the rear set up and the second picture is the front set up. Note the fancy nuts holding the adapter to the brakes o the front. I have no idea why those were used. They capped ends just add to the problems and they are invisible when the hubcaps are in place. Note: I popped one off and didn't put it back for the picture.

I want to stick with the wide 5 pattern so that cuts the options down to:

1. New front 5 wide disc set up.

2. Find a compatible wheel to what I have now utilizing the existing spacers on the front.

3. Put the hubcaps back on and stop obsessing and learn to love what I have.

I like beehives. Does this apply??

I may just pop off one of the adapters, take it with, and make a couple stops at wheel and tire stores and try and match something up. 

Danny, beehives always apply.

Bob, just being a wiseacre!

Danny: Don't ever stop. That's part of what makes this fun.

Stan and I also talked about going to grey powdercoated wide 5 steelies if I could get drumskins to fit. That would mean shorter bolts from the brake hub through the adapter and then countersinking the holes deeper and putting on shorter tapered nuts matched to the countersunk holes. With the resulting flat surface between the wheel and adapter I could fit the drumskins and then the steelies.

Or I could just go shoot myself.

Drumskins are really thin, less than 1/16th" really not a thickness problem. I cut my front drumskins, made them into a flat plate and cut off the "drum" area where the brake shoes would contact if they were actual drums. Needed to do this to clear CSP wide5 discs..

No problem, I'll never stop!!

PS, I don't have a gun. Perhaps I can be of assistance as I know a bunch of firearm-equipped individuals.....

It's good to know I have friends to help me out.

Photos my good man!

That means I need to jack the car up, remove the wheel, take pictures, and finally post photos. Tomorrow is another day, it's cold and LATE!

Danny, don't bother, I got it. you cut off everything that folds back from the face of the drumskin, right? Essentially you made it into a flat plate. Makes good sense.

Thanks!

Now go to bed.

Yuppers! You too.

The grey steel wide fives with black lug and black nuts + the aluminum skins are the hot ticket - in my book.

However, I don't think the aluminum skins over the the drums will work with the 4 lug and adapters.

No shooting yourself. However, if you do. Leave me the keys to the car.

AHH! That's a wise man. Change the rules to make 'em fit! So, the skin isn't a 'bowl' over the drum.. it's a 'plate' over the adapter. 

Ted:

That is it in my situation. The drumskins fit over the adapter and behind the wheel. The problem is to get the bolts and nuts from the hub level with the adapter face ergo countersinking them, assuming that doesn't weaken the connection between the brake hub and the adapter.

I have lost a wheel at speed once, in a Bugeye Sprite. I have no interest in revisiting that experience...ever.

AHH! Got it. (Edison moment... the light just came on...)

In situations like these, where safety is paramount, it's best to do it once and do it right.  Buy once. Cry once.  Cheap parts break hearts.

That's all I've got. I'm all out of catchy phrases and good ideas.

Ted

Bob, if you end up getting rid of your chrome mangles give me a shout.  I'm looking for a set.  Are you on the west coast? 

Good luck w/ your project!

im getting ready to change from 4 lug to 5 wide... Time permitting before spring.

cheers,

, Luis --lfepardo@gmail.com

Luis:

I'm in central Illinois. I'll get back to you.

The pictures help to clarify your issue.  Not sure if anyone has a replacement wide 5 rotor that would work with your existing calipers.  Both Empi and AC Industries have the entire kit for around $470 which would fix issue.

Looks like the front adapters and studs/nuts are from CB Performance. #4266 Adapters and #4218 Gorilla Studs/Nuts (12mm).

redrilling the 4,130 to 5,130 should be no problem at all. as for the stregnthing ribs go,my cb 4 lug rotors have the five ribs in them.....so only 1 is on a rib any way. it's a non issue as long as it is done corectly on the correct machine.(not by hand,not in drill press) then there is the 914 4 bolt wheel that looks like the 5 bolt fucshes do but only 4.there are many versions of them. the main thing I dont like about the wide five stuff is it's so dam heavy.(unless you get the $$$$$$et)

Mark - He wants to match back which is 5-205.  

Bob - buy the wide 5 Empi kit and sell off the 4 lug spindles/calipers and adapters.  Should be able to get more than $169 - so end cost for proper solution would only be $300. (Just need to decide if you have/need dropped spindles)

Have you contacted the Airkewld guys?

http://www.airkewld.com/ - they appear to have all sorts of stuff for wide 5 wheels.

This image was particularly interesting to me:

Neat brake kits, right? But those are too expensive. Have a look at the tapered / countersunk bolts holding the adapters to the hub/rotor. I wonder if you could find something like that to help hold your existing adapters to the hub? Might be worth looking into. If they don't have the part, they may have the experience to point you in the right direction.

http://www.airkewld.com/BAD-Se...-Patterns-p/4830.htm

Notice how they use a countersunk bolt to hold everything together? I think those are your guys.

That said, I keep going back to thinking that with something like this, you want to do it once and do it 'right'.

Ted

I sent Airkewld a message to see if they have adapters that would work. We'll see. Thanks, Ted.