CONVERTABLE TOP INSTALLATION

I'm new to this forum stuff so bear with me please.
I am in the process of building a JPS kit with no help from mr. John.
I need pictures of how to mount bows for the top to the body. I don't even know if I have all the required parts. If some one could take some detailed pics of mounts please post them. My car is almost done and will post pics soon.

This was touched upon and Gordon wrote a real nice how to on this.

http://speedstershop.com/viewtopic.php?t=381

I don't think I will have a problem with the top it's self, butt I am unsure of how to mount the bows to the body. The article starts after bows are mounted and doesn't show them as I have read this article and think it will be very usefull when I am ready to put the top on.It's a very good article and this forum is very good.

Some more info at the Library TAB on this site:

http://speedsterowners.com/library/fiberfabb/page2.asp
Go to page 92

http://speedsterowners.com/library/cmcmanual1/images/CMC%20025.jpg
Check out point 8

These are the same pages that are in JPS build manual and they all talk about a tubular support witch I do not have. I have two bows and two metal brackets that the bows swing on. I don't know if I mount the metal L-bracket solid to the body through the two holes that the bows bolt to,or if it is suppose to swing. All these pages in the build manual are very vauge or I'm missing something. I really need some pictures if some one can help. I'ts pretty bad when you build a whole car from the chasis to the engine to paint and can't install the top.

I added a pic of my top frame. This is from my drivers side. The first bolt, bolts into the body and the rest swings. Don't see what that tubular thingy is since it seems I don't have one either. I don't know how one would fit anyway. Works great though.

Everett,
The tubular support that you are talking about is probably the pieces that is a tube of metal that is threaded on the inside that is actually in the body. The lower bolt threads through the bow, metal "l" bracket and screws in the metal tube in the body. Check to see if you can locate it on the rear seat back, about a couple of inches below the top lip of the body and about a few inches back from the door edge. It should be protruding through the fiberglass about a 1/8 inch.
Good luck,
Jim

Nope; all there is there is a dimple where the bracket gets mounted with a hole (3/8") in it. I understand what the bows do and where they mount, I'm just confused about the bracket and how it mounts and what it does. Mikes picture helped but still not sure how every thing hooks up. Should be the same as a Vintage Speedster.

Everett,
That picture should tell you all you need to know. The front bolt (to the right side of the pic) is the one that goes into the threaded hole in the side of the body. When you raise and lower the top that little tab snugs up the bows and keeps the top taught.
If you don't have something to screw that 'connecting' bolt to you'll need to drill a hole where that dimple is and either glue or glass in a nut in the front area of the rear wheel wells. With the wheels off it's pretty accessible.

In that pic the top tube is the front bow and the bottom tube is the rear bow. I know it seems like it should be more complicated but it's really not that sophisticated, just very effecient.

Definetly something missing on the body and I'm not suprised. Nothing to thread a bolt into on the side of the body.

Use a 1-1/2" 5/16" bolt and back it up with a large fender washer from the upper wheel well area, stack a couple of spacer washers on top of the carpet, add the bow top off the bolt with a nyloc nut or acorn nut. ~Alan

It shouldn't be that difficult to do. You mentioned there is a dimple to mark where the mounting bolt should go. You can fab something up like welding a nut to a piece of 1/8" steel plate and rivet it in or glass it in. Or just cut a piece of all thread and use a locking nut and some big washers. There are any number of solutions, none of them too hard to do.

OK, Alan posted as I was. Do what he says, he is a wise man.

Thanks guys you have been a big help. I think I'll fabricate a bracket on the inside and j-b weld or glass it and drill and tap a 5/16 thread good and level because I think the brackets for bows should be stright and not follow contour of back seat. Am I correct? By the way there is also a cone shaped washer a assume goes between the bracket and side of back seat. This may take a couple of days.

The mounting bolt following the seat back surface is not an issue,I have been doing this on a number of Speedsters when I find the factory installed pivot points are off. ~Alan

Yeah, the angle of the mounting bolt (following the angle of the seat area) isn't a big deal - you mount the bows and tension bracket loosely to allow them to move easily anyway, so the angle of the bolt is moot.

BTW: If you haven't figured it out yet, that little flat metal bracket that the bow ends attach to is a top material tensioning device. When flipped down, it relieves tension on the top to allow you to connect/disconnect the snaps and/or front latches. Once everything is buckled up you flip them UP and the top gets tight.

You'll need reasonably exact dimensions on that bracket to make it work correctly. If those don't show up today I'll go out and measure mine for you.

Gordon
The Speedstah Guy from Beaufort

Another thought, Everett, is that, depending on what or whose top material you get and the shape/length of the top bows that you have, you'll probably need to do some adjusting somewhere to make everything fit together.

There is a High Bow and a Low Bow top, the former giving a bit more head room. If you have high bows and a low-bow top you'll have to shorten the ends of the bows 1-1/2" - 2" to get everything to fit, otherwise the top material won't be long enough to reach down to the snaps in the back.

All CMC bows seem to be made for a high top, while the top I bought from Vintage a while back was a "low bow" version which required messing with bow length until I got everything to fit and look right.

I also live close to the ocean year round so I got some 3/4" black shrink tube and shrunk it onto the length of both bows before assembly - much better than paint or powder coat!

gn

I'm in the middle of doing my top too right now and noticed that the top material is a bit too short - requiring the "Carson" mod on the bows.

Great write up BTW Gordon

Thanks, Paul!

I like the look of the "Carson" style top a bit more than the higher version, especially on a flared and lowered car, but sometimes I kinda miss the headroom in mine!

I had to mess around with holding my bows in temporarily with vise grips and/or c-clamps until I got the shape just so. Took a couple of hours of screwing with it til I was satisfied. Now I've got 10,000 miles of high speed wind on it (most of it on a trailer and in the rain) and it's stretched out so it's become a high top anyway!!

gn

This is one of the nicer roof lines that I have come across. Not sure if it is a Carson top or not.

btw,, has anyone had any experience with these Stayfast tops, by EZsoftops ??

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&viewitem=&item=270052578724

Alan

Find or fab 4 of these temp clamps to get a close approx of where to drill your bows.
Sight along the WS frame to get even bow height.

Great idea Dave!!

Got my top all on and fits and looks good. Went to put last snap on windshield, drilled the hole screwed stud snap part way in and busted the freaking windshield. The last freaking snap!!!!!!!
Thanks for all the help guys. I will post some pictures as soon as I figure out how (not to cumputer savay).

Everett:

That's why I modified my top such that I don't need the snaps in the windshield frame. I get nervous screwing anything into those frames with the glass already installed. Way too many of us have cracked our windshields on installation - they're that sensitive - so don't feel too bad - many of us feel your pain.

Since you're in Michigan, try contacting Carey Hines at Special Edition for another windshield - his should fit your car just fine - or maybe Alan Merklin hasn't sold the extra he had a while back. There's LOTS of already written help on installing a windshield either on here or the Speedstershop.

gn

what?? snaps on the windshield?

Am i missing something here? Are you talking about the side curtain retainers?

Windshield I have is sold and to be delived at Carlisle '09. rather than windshield snaps, I use the male posts like MG tonneau covers use. ~Alan

Paul:

If you follow the CMC assembly manual, they recommend installing a couple of snaps somewhere up on the windshield frame at the big curve in the top corner. They're supposed to accept a snap from that big flap on the front of the top's side edge to keep it from flapping around.

I did a number of mods to my top to make it fit better and one was to eliminate the need for those snaps. Take a look here for more info: http://speedstershop.com/viewtopic.php?t=381

gn

Gordon; I got some of that contact adhisive by DAP you used in your write up on top installation. Sticks like iron and lot more forgiving than regular DAP contact adhisive. Cleans'up with water also so you can acually reuse your brush. NICE ARTICLE, I used it along with instructions from JPS .(JPS needs updating).

"JPS needs updating"

Wow.....Understatement of the month....

Gordon, thanx for the tip on Special Edition for a windshield. Drove down today picked one up at very resonable price. Nice people and very nice cars.

Glad it worked out! Yup, they're good folks and have helped out a lot of us here on the web sites and been great contributors to the Carlisle meet for years.

It's a good thing Lane Anderson doesn't live as close to them as you do. They'd probably never be able to get him out of the place!

gn

Everett:

Will you need help getting that new windshield in? If so, there's a bunch of useful info both on this site and at speedstershop.com to help.

But, then again.....you've already done it OK once, right?? Guess you know what you're doin'...

gn

Ya got that right, Gordon! They'd have to hire someone just to clean up the drool after each visit.

Gordon - i'm hoping you can help with this.

What the heck am i doing wrong? I can't seem to find the proper way to mount these bloody clips. Can you take a look a these pictures and let me know which one is right?

hole i cut:
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/2162/356img2576ar2.jpg


http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/963/356img2581zo8.jpg

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/328/356img2582xr7.jpg

http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/5599/356img2583df9.jpg

Hey, nice gloves!

From the "Picture's worth a thousand words" department, here you go:

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f254/speedster356/DSC02718.jpg

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f254/speedster356/DSC02720.jpg

and the best quality I could get without washing it out:

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f254/speedster356/DSC02721.jpg

The mounting screws go through the header from the forward top surface side to catch the latch mounting tab on the underside of the top edge of the header. When they're properly mounted, they are in an "L" configuration, with the mounting tab more-or-less horizontal at the top and the latch itself hanging down.

I have over an inch of weather strip up in mine so that the header comes down just even with the windshield top frame for a clean look. That's why I've pulled the weather strip back with my thumb to show the latch mounting screws and nuts. BTW: I used counter-sunk, 10-32 stainless machine screws with locktite on the nuts. I didn't use nylok locknuts because they stick up higher into the weatherstrip than a "regular" nut.

If these pics don't work for you, let me know and I'll try to do something better.

Oh, and one last thing: If you have a third latch, NOW is the time to install it 2" off-center in the middle of the header. It'll hold the middle of the header down when the top tries to lift it off due to Bernoulli lift when you get up to speed.

Good luck! Gordon

thanks Gordon.

So, to be clear, it is along these lines:
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/5599/356img2583df9.jpg

but the hinge pivot is sticking out like yours:
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f254/speedster356/DSC02720.jpg

i was surprised at how much the latch "hangs" down in the window (line of sight). but based on your photos and comments on the weather stripping, it sounds like i have pushed my bow too far down on the frame (no weather stripping) and i was not leveraging the latch hinge angle provided when comparing the two photos above (if that makes any sense).

A few more Q's:

1) I have the stainless hardware, but have not drilled the header yet (obviously, since i have yet to hammer out the hinge location), but did you fill the top of the counter sunk bolt hole with filler to make it smooth before you covered it with the top?

2) Do you have another latch i could buy?

By Jove, I think you've got it!

I was surprised at how much the latch "hangs" down in the window (line of sight). but based on your photos and comments on the weather stripping, it sounds like i have pushed my bow too far down on the frame (no weather stripping) and i was not leveraging the latch hinge angle provided when comparing the two photos above (if that makes any sense).

Yup, makes sense. I found that I needed to add the thick weatherstrip to lift the header up because the latch is actually quite long and, even with the catching hook screwed all the way up in, it only can pull the header and windshield frame together a little. Adding the weatherstrip thickness moves them farther apart and lets the latch do it's latchy thing.

A few more Q's:

1) I have the stainless hardware, but have not drilled the header yet (obviously, since i have yet to hammer out the hinge location)(use a Dremel), but did you fill the top of the counter sunk bolt hole with filler to make it smooth before you covered it with the top?

Yes. The screw head is countersunk about 1/16". I put 2-part epoxy on the upper threads of the screw and inserted it in the hole, then once I got everything tight I "capped" the scew head with epoxy, let it cure then filed it off smooth with the surrounding material.

2) Do you have another latch i could buy?
Nope, sorry........but I sent a current available parts list from MG magic to you via email. He may have one (don't have the list in front of me).

gn

you rock!

thanks mate for the PDF. ps - hammer it out is an expression :)

Gordon,

It might be nice to have this MG Magic information available somewhere on the website.