Convertible Top Header

Can anyone here in this great forum post photos of what the finished header (bow) should look like on a convertible? I have a 1988 CMC (1959 Convertible D widebody), and just recently installed the snaps, bows, etc but now need advice as to wrapping the top around the fiberglass bow that came with the car. I'll need to buy the latches, I am told. Question 1: What glue is recommended to glue the top fabric to the bow? Question 2: The latches, do I need to drill holes in the windshield glass top molding - I have 3 extruded areas on the molding, and it looks like the clip can just go under the lip, no need to drill. CMC (now Street Beasts) is totally useless as to tech help. Thanks in advance!

Joe

Thanks to whoever added the previous thread on top latches. What I did learn is that the metal bows supplied with my top from the previous owner are NOT as was described here, or in the CMC catalog. Any suggestions or tips on locating the correct ones? Plus, it is the cheap vinyl top. If anyone has had a canvas one made up, or ordered it for a CMC, please advise.

Thanks!

Joe

The easiest way ( but you'll lay out a few schillings) is to order one with the latches applies to the bow from VS ...fits great and correstly

Joe,

You should be able to glue the top to the windshield bow with some heavy duty upholstery glue. Automotive stores should have it or you might want to try stopping by an upholsterer and ask if they sell it or find out where to purchase. You'll want to install the top in warm weather or warm garage or the material will be too stiff to fit tightly.

You said the top bows do not look right, what is wrong with them? Can you post photos? I believe the top bows and latches are the same from Vintage and Streetbeasts, they should be able to tell you if they fit CMC's and if you can purchase from them. The latches screw to the windshield bow that is glued to the top and latch into the windshield frame (there should be a two lips bent away from the glass for that purpose.

I'll post photos of the bows Monday when I borrow a digital camera. The rear swing bow is ok, the other is not like CMC pictures in their catalog. It has a weird l-shaped end to it. Since my car is a convertible D, and CMC is no longer around (and Street Beasts doesn't produce D's), I was toying with the idea of replacing my D windshield glass & side supports with Speedster parts. Then, I could order a canvasSpeedster top from VS. Would it fit? The one offered by Street Beasts is cheap vinyl. I am in NJ and want to drive my car in the winter.

Joe,

I'd be surprised if that worked. Your car has rollups I assume- the D windshield is higher than the Speedster, and the frame attaches pretty close to the door openings- as a result the side glass would be the wrong shape, etc to mate with a speedster windshield frame (assuming you could even get the windshield to fit without drilling new holes in the car). You already have something a lot of guys would like (functioning side windows), I would recommend that you keep the functionality of what you have and just replace the top. If it were me- I'd talk with Henry at IM about a top and frame, or go to an upholstery shop in your neck of the woods that caters to hot-rods and have something fabbed there. Even if it costs $1K, you'll be money ahead.

The CMC Ds were different than either the originals or IMs (if I see correctly in the pictures) in that there is no actual sissors mechanism that attaches to the header and as a result to the windshield. I would assume that means your windows don't seal all that well at the top of the side-glass. I wouldn't let this bother me at all if I were you- a speedster would be a major step in the opposite direction in terms of weather sealing.

If you just like the look of the speedster over the D, I understand that perfectly. In that case, I'd sell your car and buy a speedster- really. Its a BIG deal to go back and forth from a speedster to a D or vice versa. Just ask Barry.

Thanks Stan! I am going to see if he can produce one from the cheap vinyl one that CMC made and was given to me when I bought the car. I guess they can use it as a template. If he isn't willing to do it, I'll try a local shop. It was suggested I get new bows from VS, along with a pre-mounted header bow with the latches attached. If I didn't love this car so much I would have sold it, as I am very picky . . . and I need a top to drive it in the winter. I'll heed your sage advice!

Joe,

I am confused. Do you have roll-up windows? I have my CMC for 15 years and never heard of them producing a "D" or having roll-up windows. If you have both then I would guess the builder modified the car or it possibly is not a CMC? These nuances might explain the top bow problem and differences you are experiencing.

CMC did indeed build a few "D" models with rollup windows. They show up from time to time on various used car forums- Bob's Classics in FL has had one for sale for about a year. Surprising, no? and maybe a bit disappointing for some when things don't fit as neatly into a box as they might like.

I think the whole problem gets back to the to the "brand identification" thing. IM is the king now, and they have some very real engineering differences- but lately so does Beck, and Specialtiy Autoworks. The differences in pan-based cars are not like the differences in Chevys and BMWs and Hondas. The engineering of ANY pan based car is pretty much the same from maker to maker. To be sure, there ARE mechanical differences, and the level of fit and finish varies greatly- but they are basically all the same bodies, on the same platform. Chest thumping because a guy has a pan based IM, or feeling ashamed because he has a CMC is just ignorant. It reminds me of buying a Cavilier just because it has a Caddy hood orniment (the Cimmeron comes to mind).

I contend that the brand of a pan based car is not nearly as important as who built it, and the level of care they took. Finding parts for a CMC "D" could be a problem, but I'm betting Henry can help. He's a great guy, and after all- the body IS almost identical in dimensions, even today.

Stan,

Great post! I agree wholeheartedly. And I like them all(replicas) regardless of the maker!

BTW, I was an unfortunate owner of a Cimmaron... got a great deal on a year old one.. it had that hood ornament though. LOL!

Jim

Yes, my CMC is actually a convertible D CMC. They produced a suppliment on how to install their roll-up windows on the doors. I have this suppliment. When I borrow a digital camera Monday, I'll snap a few pics of this suppliment and post them to this site. All I need is proper convertible bows and a nice top, not the vinyl crap they charge $750 for!

PS: Stan I hate you because you have a GLASSPAR hardtop. Hey, it's my post and I can hate who I want, no?

Stan, Joe,

Well, you learn something every day. I thought I saw my share of CMC's (as I said, I have one myself) but never saw a "D" or roll-up windows, can't even recall seeing 'em offered in their advertising. I would like to take a closer look at your car - perhaps in May? Good luck with the top, hopefully another one like yours will pop up on this site. We'll watch for the photos.

In order to prove there is such a thing as a CMC convertible D, I'll post pictures of it this week. The Loch Ness monster is REAL!

Joe,
If you have access to a scanner, and can scan the supplement, I will post it in the library section for everyone to reference.
thanks
-=theron

I don't have a scanner . . . it was either a Porsche speedster or a scanner last year and . . .

Yup, I have seen a CMC "D" with roll ups in South Jersey a few years ago....

I tried Henry at IM about buying a new top and bows . . . he said that they are not available as parts . . . is that normal, IOW what would he do if an IM was in need of a new top? I have that CMC convertible "D" model, so a top from him would be great. Is this normal fare from Henry, just because I don't have one of his cars he won't sell me the parts. I thought about buying a top for an authentic "D" to see if that fits, but don't know if it would.

I think IMs have the windshield set farther to the rear than other replicas. George?
ed

Ed,
Thats true on a speedster, but a "D" has rollup windows, so the frame whould have to meet the door opening, or the windows wouldn't work. On either car.

Kirk at VIntage Speedsters had convertible top headers for sale on his web site last I looked - around $110, if memory serves - look under accessories, and I assume they'll fit on a CMC windshield frame but can't guarantee it. It comes with the latches in a "kit". I had thought about getting one myself, then decided to go topless altogether (kinda weird for a New England kinda guy, but what the hell).
gn

Again... the man has a "D", the header, bows and top from Vintage or JPS will not fit...

I sent Henry another e-mail practically begging him to sell me the top, and that I could maybe have the bows made up locally. I received no response. If anyone has an "in" with him, it would be greatly appreciated. I really have no other way to get a top. Local shops are telling me 1800-2200 to make one up from scratch. That's out. Thanks in advance,

Joe

Joe,

Perhaps Henry purchases the tops and bows as a package from someone and cannot seperate? Not knowing his situation, try some of the suppliers such as Klasse 356, Tweeks, Automotion, Parts Obsolete, etc. I don't know what their prices are like but you could check them out. As for fit to your car you might be able to purchase and return if theirs do not fit although you will have sunk shipping costs....it depends on the importance of a top.

Another option is to e-mail Speedster owners registered on this site who are close to you and see if you can find someone with a "D" so you could measure/check fit, etc. There are 8 registered owners in New Jersey, 12 in New York, 6 in Pa and 12 in Maryland. Theron's new distance locater is a great help for this. While coordinating the Carlisle meet in May I find many of the registered owners do not frequent this site but do respond to direct e-mails.

Just some suggestions....

Put the bow on the windscreen. Pull the canvas/vinyl as tight forward as you can. Make a chalk mark on the outside of the canvas, on the top edge of the bow. Use 3M contact cement. I like the spray kind. Spray the header bow and the canvas, then wrap the canvas around the hader bow and lap it into the grove where the header slides down onto the windscreen. It will be really tight. You want it really tight and install it in the sun, or in the garage with a heat lamp on it.