Convertible Top Installation

Well, my new Stayfast top arrived from VS in time to (hopefully) get it installed (along with basic side windows) in time for the trek South in two weeks. (I know....I'm trailering it, but I STILL want to keep it more-or-less dry.)

I've received and begun to fit the header bow which I bought from Alan, and I hope to be getting going on the installation tomorrow if the temperature rises a bit (I don't have heat out in the garage).

The first step will be to fit a temporary weatherstrip into the windshield frame valley on the header and get the latches positioned and attached. Next, I'll be test-fitting the bows to the car and making sure they look like they'll fit properly. Once that is done, I can get the top material and bows together and and re-install everything to get ready for the "real deal".

The CMC manual tells me to start by positioning the center snap at the back, use that to get the bows pulled forward, and then stretch the material left and right from center to get the remaining rear snaps installed. Finishing that, I can move toward the front header.

I'm curious about what adhesive you folks have used on the top material to header, and whether it is effective at temps under 50 degrees - I have some DAP contact cement that I was planning on using, but it takes forever to cure under 50 degrees (measured in days) so I might be interested in something else as effective but colder-friendly and has a 40-45 degree cure rate of 24 hours or so. An suggestions???? If not, I can use the DAP, get everything positoned and semi-stretched (as little as Stayfast material will "stretch") and then pull it all out and run it into the house to let it cure. Not ideal, but it'll work, OR I can wait on this for a warmer day this week and run it somewhere to a heated garage and do it there - we'll see.

If people are interested, I can take a pictures as I go along and post them, and/or maybe get some dialog going on here with questions and answers as I proceed so you'll all have the advantage of seeing how this is done.....just let me know if anyone is interested.

Gordon
One of the topless "Speedstah Guys" from Rhode Island

My Vintage Speedsters Owner's Manual build sheet says:

"Pull top forward over bow header so a wrinkle-free finish is obtained and mark position of top against bow from inside of the car."

"Apply with 2011 Goodyear Pliobond adhesive or its equivalent to the fiberglass header and top. Sand header bow before applying glue. Trim material 2" in front of fiberglass header and glue material around and inside channel of header. Attach a piece of weatherstripping to inside of channel"

Hope this helps.

Thanks, Beth - I'll look tomorrow for the Pliobond, unless anyone else has had good luck with anything else. I've already sanded the header, as it originally looked like it had been shaped with a cut-off wheel and was covered in deep swirl marks - took those out and will be painting the visible side tomorrow when it warms up a little, and then get going with the rest.

Otherwise, looks like the VS manual is about the same as the CMC one - how many different ways can you put one of these on, after all, anyway?

Gordon

Be sure to use a laquer based paint, a couple of light coats and not enamel as the glue will eat at the enamel ........ Alan

Took this picture today after I got the top roughed on and the bows positioned to get the "look" that I want, which is something like the chopped tops from Boyd Coddington's shop, and I also want the bows to fit down inside the back and under the tonneau when it's stowed (it's getting there - still need some adjustments). Now that I have the center rear snap in and the front anchored with bungees, it's pretty easy to play around with the rear bow pivot point to get the look and fit I want. I may lift the center of the roofline another 3/4" or so for inside clearance if it still looks OK - we'll see. Currently have about 2" from my head to the top bow (!) but that may be enough. Now I understand the comments from others about looking out of a bunker!!

This look is pretty close to what I want, and tomorrow I'll start putting the rest of the rear snaps in place and think about how I want to do the header bow. I expect the header to add an inch or so to the front height, so that'll bring the line up to be more in the same plane as the rear section (it'll have slightly less "kink" across the top line) so I may play with overall height some more to compensate.
I now see where the front stud is supposed to go in the windshield frame, as well as a potential additional stud at the rear of the door to hold that curved flap down.

Still looking for that Pliobond cement, although the ACE Hardware site tells me that they sell it, so off to ACE tomorrow. I have some Weldwood rubberized contact cement that I'll use if I can't find the Pliobond this week (decided that clear silicon caulk won't work this time - LOL!!).

Found all my parts for the side windows, so as soon as the header is glued I can get going on those, as I need the top material in place to determine the size and shape of the window plexiglass. Looks like a busy week...

Gordon
One of the "Topped Off Speedstah Guys" from Rhode Island

Gordon, do you actually fit in that car with the top up? If yes, how tall are you? It does look cool though...
Ron

It looks awesome, I love the look of it

I love the look also, but almost never use it unless I have to. At 6 foot you're almost blind all the way round unless you really slink down, but you look soooooooo cool.

If I have to drivwe with the top up, id rather not drive
but i guess if you get caught in a rainstorm, you may have 2

Gordon
I would borrow a kerosene heater and heat up the garage for a day or so. I think its best to install the top in warm sunshine so the canvas stretches and you have a tight fit with a minimum or rinkles. In the winter you can slack off on the levers if the top shrinks with the temperature. I used contact cement and have had no problems for two years.
ed

Looks good Gordon. But there is a pull handle on your white cabinet in the garage that is not even with the other one. I hope you take better measurements with the top.

:)

Looks good.....racy!!!

OK, the whole point of this exercise is to get a top on so I can open-trailer the car to the Winter Hacienda (800 miles) and get it there reasonably dry.

Having said that, I figured that, if I'm putting this thing on, it might as well be cool. The look I want is a Carson-top clone, but as a convertible (think 3" chop).

Fitting it over the roll bar was a given, as well as fitting under the tonneau when stowed.

I have 914 seats which sit about as low as you can get - the seat cushion is about even with the door sills - so my wicked-tall, 5' 6-1/2" frame tops out at about 1" higher than the headrests.
When I sit in there with the top up, I have about 2+ inches between my head and the front top bow (which is right over my head), so I fit well. Can't say the same for other, taller passengers, but that's why I'm thinking about moving everything up an inch or so, if it still looks good. My wife's torso is longer than mine, so I'll get her in there today and see how she fits and make adjustments accordingly, but so far, so good.

Oh, and Mike: I got that from my "I-don't-know-which-end-of-a-hammer-to-hold" neighbor when they had a new kitchen installed.
Boy! Some guys notice EVERYTHING!

gn

If you have the plexi side curtain frames, you can cut new plexi to fit the exact opening. I used my dremel and went to the 1/8 plexi. I love it compared to the heavy 1/4 plexi I have on the silver speedster. It's lighter and a tailored, perfect fit. I did make cut a piece of plywood to the shape of the stitches in the opening, and then positioned that to my plexi about 3/8 of an inch off to provide a smooth "fence" for my dremel to run in. You have to use a high speed dremel to cut plexi, otherwise it chips. These things seal pretty dang good. Better than the old cloth and frame type.

Jack:

I get the jist of what you're talking about, but can you post some pictures?

I expect to get to the side windows next week, so anything you can provide is welcome.

Also, can anyone post pictures of how the window "flap" is treated at the top front, and bottom rear of the side window opening?

I've been installing the rear snaps today to match the snap collars installed for the tonneau, and should be done with that tonight.

I dry-installed a 7/16" foam weatherstrip in the windshield frame valley on the front header, but it appears that my latches are at least 1/4" too long, as they only barely catch the windshield frame lip when fully screwed in and closed (latched). I'll try to take a picture of how I think they mount to the header and y'all can critique whether I'm right or not.

Thanks, gn

It will be Saturday at best on the photos. I'm out of town.

OK, folks.....forging ahead on my top. Got the bows straightened out by shortening the front 3/4" and the rear 1 1/2" on each side, which allowed me to use the CMC bow mounting positions. The VS top material is not quite as large (front-to-back) as the CMC, hence necessitating the shorter bows. This also gives a somewhat lower roofline - not too cool for you Giants over 6 feet!.

The material is now bonded to the header, and I'll be gluing into the valley today.

About to tackle the side windows, but I'm curious about the bulge in the leading edge (see photo). I know these fit INSIDE the windshield frame - is the bulge there to keep the leading edge from sticking out into the airstream??

I won't be cutting anything until I hear from you folks, so some advice would be appreciated.

Thanks, gordon

Gordon: It took me a few tries with my cardboard templates to get my fit right. I did need a second set of hands inside supporting the template as i bent and worked it to the w/shield frame.
FYI: If you haven't already, there are some good pics in David Salvato's file(mrdsalvato), and a few in Ola Miltorp's file(under same name). After going to a few meets and seeing the fittment of the original canvas type curtains, I can see I made mine to tall. I fit my plexi to the outside flap of the top. The originals clear this outer flap and "seal" against the inner flap. As mine are too "tall",
each time I close the door, I have to run my finger along the flap to be on the outside of the window. You can see this in the Carlisle pic.
As rain was looming, in my haste, the outer flap is still under the window.
I plan to make two more sets this winter. One set full closure and a cut down set to simulate a half open window. If I really get frisky I may start fooling around with double track aluminum extrusions for some sliders.

BD

Bill:

I'm aware of the roof material versus the window flap. I have a terrific write-up from someone on here (unfortunately, all I have is hard copy) which goes into great detail about getting that flap to seal right (and NOT use a snap at the front) with the window glass/gasket smaller than the roof line and pushing firmly against the flap, but I'll have to run another set of stitching about 1" in from the roof edge AND a snap tab attached to the roof material, just behind the rear top of the door and snapped to the rear flap snap, to pull the top material in closer to the window for a better seal - don't know if I can get all that done before I leave. I may just get it mostly in there, and seal it up with something for the trip down (I'm trailering it anyway) and then find an upholstery shop down there.

I still need to know what the bulge on the leading edge is for, of if I even need it??

gn

The thing about the windows that needs to be remebered is that they will stop most water but not all. Also remember that you need to make sure that they are HIGH enough off the door to allow you to close said door. I have a few nicks on the Q-panel where the end of the window dragged acroos the paint when closing the door. So make sure that they are about 1/4" above the door-window sill.

The front curve, yeah fits inside the winow frame a tad so that the window doesn`t blow outside the frame therefore allowing water in. I will be adding a strip to the frame this winter and having a more convetional lexan pop-in window. Should be more water tight as well.

Another little trick we did on the wood window sill where the holes are for the posts. I added a thin weather strip between the door and the wood frame. Or for those that have the glass with pads. This really helped keep the door dry.

I became a little bit of an expert since the car was an outside vehicle until I got the damn garage built.

Thanks, Mike.....that's about what I thought on the leading edge. I'll try dry fastening the tubular weatherstrip to it and see how it fits before I commit. the rest of the widow "glass" is surrounded by a different weatherstrip - a small channel fitting over the edge of the glass, and then a 1" rubber lip extending out radially all the way around except the leading edge. That rubber flap sits on top of the door to keep water out. That upper lip fits against the flap sewn onto the top material, but the flap has way too much "flappability" so I want to sew another seam along the line of the top, but about 1" inboard of the top's outside edge to tighten it all up. Saw that elsewhere on the forum and, now that I can see what's going on, it makes a LOT of sense.

Thanks for all the help, guys - coming along fine!

Gordon
One of the "Far less topless Speedstah Guys" from Rhode Island

Gordo, if your interested, feel free to stop in some time to check out the top on my CMC. It's been used and rained on quite a bit over the years.

Boston Bob

Bob:

Would love to, and you're not that far away, but we're right out straight getting everything sorted and packed and ready for the seasonal migration South.

Guess I have an OK handle on it for now....I can see what I want, and will have to rely on pictures from the photo section to answer the rest of my questions.

When all else fails, re-design the whole damn thing in an hour and make it work right over time!!

gn

OK, Boys and Girls....still forging ahead at a snails pace on getting this top finished.

Actually, the top is ON! I glued the header using DAP Neoprene based contact cement - neat stuff and allows LOTS of time to mess around with things when it's only 50 degrees in the garage. Once I got things right where I wanted them, a gentle pass over the outside of the header with a heat gun on medium made the stick-um stick and that was that. Used Alan's suggestion of holding everything in place with duct tape, from the top material to the windshield, overnight and then cemented the valley. There I pushed the material into the valley, marked it and cut it off at the apex of the valley, then sped things up (it was even colder the next day) by spreading the glue with a brush, waiting 10 minutes and then waving a heat gun over the area and, Whammo!, instant stick. Worked great.

On to the side curtains - again, agonized over where they should be versus the mounting pegs, then said "Screw it!" and got out the drill and eyeballed the holes in the door trim for the pegs, figuring that I could make the windows fit to where the pegs ended up (besides, the "glass" is flexible).
The decorative peg tube is aluminum and easily bent out-of-round, so I press-fitted them into the door trim and then reamed the hole with a 21/64's drill for the 5/16" peg and that seemed to work OK (after screwing with the first one for close to an hour to get it to fit easily). I foresee problems with this interface long term and may retrofit something better. The pegs can "hang" as they're inserted or removed, causing the softer aluminum to score and then they bind up. This is crying out for a harder material for the peg tubes, and bronze would look good in this car - looks like a good retro-fit later on.

That's it for tonight - wish I had a picture of the finished top, but maybe tomorrow - It came out really nice, but you Giants over 5' 10" need not apply....Now that the pegs are located, I can mess around with a window glass template 'til I'm happy with the fit and "tightness" against the windshield frame. I'll also be pulling the top material off so Kathy can sew the window flap closer to the edge of the top material to tighten up the (window) top and rear edge interface. That way, the "glass" gasket will fit up against the flap and not have to tuck up into the "pocket" between the flap and the top (which, IMHO, ain't the way it's designed to work).

Many thanks to all who have posted and emailed suggestions, especially Alan Merklin, who has taken more than his share of phone calls on this........and been greatly helpful.

Gordon
One of the "Speedstah Guys" from Rhode Island

Gordon ,
Glad all has worked out as it can be a bit difficult to explain a process via the phone. Always glad to help anyone out on the SOC ! Have a safe trip south!

Stan! The damn thing worked!!!!!!!

Alan Merklin asked me to take some pictures of my top installation with the mods that Stan outlined, and I should have them on the forum sometime tomorrow.

I went outside this morning, about 44 degrees F here (THAT should make Team Evil happier!!) and put the top up for the pics - took under a minute to get it up and stretched, although bear in mind that I'm waiting for a warmer day to get it soaked and let it dry in place to shrink it to fit properly - it looks decent right now, anyway, although I'll be modifying the mounts to get the angle and fit to the windshield pillar better, similar to Ola Miltrop's.

I did the new flap stitch along the top line (worked like a charm) and use the snap at the rear of the door to pull the top material inward, although I used the flap material as the "tab" you had sewn in and it worked out pretty well (all it takes is a small stitch line to make it "pull") - I took a picture of it for the forum, later. We couldn't get the sewing machine foot as close to the header as I would have liked to make a stitch line along the header near the front upper door corner, but I'll try a snap location on the header instead of the windshield frame and see how that works - even Velcro in that corner might work - we'll see, but we're really close to Nirvana, now.

I've also incorporated a "stretcher" bar between my roll bar and the middle of the header, made out of a spring loaded house window curtain rod to keep the header positioned down on the windshield frame evenly across the front. All it does is push the header forward ever so slightly to keep it even across the front, instead of letting the header slip upwards at the middle of the windshield. These rods are adjustable by turning them one way or the other and, once the proper tension is set, they are easily put in place and hold everything fast. This could also be used between the front (middle) bow and the header to stretch the front material tighter. Easy, cheap, and, above all, it works at speeds up over 80 MPH (on the trailer) so far.

I found a couple of air leaks, right where the latches are, caused by not having a continuous piece of weatherstrip across the header and under the latches - should have that fixed tomorrow. Also found that the heater/defroster channels coming from the rear were leaking air into the cockpit. A quick application of Duct Tape cured that. Haven't found any other air leaks yet, but I bet there are a few more. I still have to trim the top edge of the side windows to lower them such that the top gasket clears the top material (but not the flap) enough to let the door close easily, but that's a minor fix.

Bottom line, is that I was motoring around in a damp, 44 degree morning and felt downright comfortable inside - warm, even. Funny thing, though - the engine noise seemed louder, but I needed about 30% LESS radio volume to be heard. Guess it's all just louder inside.

I will be trimming that flap along the top of the window, though, as the bottom flap edge sits just about eye-line level and needs to find it's way upward and out of the way.

Stan: Thanks!, again, for the research done to make this job a LOT easier and a LOT more effective than it could have been.

Gordon
One of the warmer "Speedstah Guys" in Beaufort, SC

Gordon,

I'm following your installation with great interest and am hoping your pictures are worth a thousand words!

OK Bruce (and others), here goes - this will take a few posts to get all the pictures in and explained, so bear with me:

New Stitch Line: If you look closely at the line parallel to the top material line in picture one, there is a light, white line where we sewed another stitch line, about 1

and also how it needs to be trimmed at the rear of the side window. Close, but not there yet:

There

Nice job Gordon! Thanks! I plan to do the same thing one of these days.

So now, along with trimming the top and rear of the side glass, I need to figure out a better way to seal the top corner of the top/windshield intersection. A snap to secure the material onto the header might work, and there