Cooling - What am I doing wrong?

I have a 2003 VS with a crate 1915 and I am having cooling problems. I have installed a deep sump oil pan, an external oil cooler (mounted on the firewall), and an oil filter so that I now have 6 quarts of Royal Purple. The engine has just 2500 miles on it. Despite all of this, when I run at 70mph for 20 miles or so, my engine temperature hovers between 200 and 210. I took it to the local VW mechanic (who usually steers me right) and he said that the engine looks fine to him. I'm stumped and could use some advice.

Thanks,
Brian

Brian,
If your oil temp climbs to 200 or 210 then hovers there, you're OK. It's too hot if it keeps climbing and goes 250 and beyond/
200 to 210 oil temps should be OK.

Greg B

Just for comparison's sake, Brian, my car used to sit just fine at 210 on the road and 220 or so stopped in summer traffic. Never conked out.
Heck, my Golf - brand new - likes to sit at 190!

Brian
"oil cooler is mounted on the firewall" are you possibly getting the hot air that has come off of the cooler back into the engine compartment?

While 200 is not excessive, you do want to run at a minimum 180-190 to allow for proper oil lubrication

______________________________

Check timing.

Does the deck lid have full weather stripping or the preferred four 1/2" rubber button stops (allows for some air to escape from the deck lid to body gap)

Those probably aren't excessive temps for TX in hot weather. Why not try mounting cooler lower to trans and prehaps forward and add ducting to force air thru it and back out under car?

Brian; you're normal. If it were my choice I wouldn't have installed the external oil cooler. I have the same engine and with the ambient temps here (from 80 degrees on up) my oil temp can get up to 220 at sustained highway speeds.

Brian,

Your Oil Temp is Normal.

Jack

Thanks for all the help. I've hear guys talk about running at 185 and 190, and I thought I was getting too hot. I'll take off the weatherstripping and put in some stop buttons - I'm sure that will help.

Brian

Temps up to 22F are absolutely normal...

I prefer that oil gets to at least 210F to burn impurities such as condensation from it..

The Royal Purple you are running is my favorite oil- it can take consistent temps up to 240 F with no issues.

You can get the inexpensive Gene Berg dipstick thermometer gadget and always be sure youre under the limit...

Does your coller have a thermostatically operated electric fan? That would pull air thru it even at rest.

I don't have an electric fan, but if I find that the engine still strggles to cool, I may install one. I do, however, have a Gene Berg dipstick, but the nut that holds the node to the top came off, so I need to make a trip to the hardward store. Once I do that I should be in good shape. Thanks again for the tips.

Brian

When you say your oil cooler is mounted on the firewall, is it below the level of the tinware which separates the top of the engine from the bottom (the cylinder tins etc)

If it isn't, then the cooler will be contributing to a higher temperature in the engine bay. Also, if the cooler is close to the inlet for the main cooling fan it will result in warm air being blown down over the cylinders, which is bad for cooling

Duplicate

Remember to change the oil now. It's probably gone through to many high heat cycles to be effective.

What size oil pump gears are you running? What make pump? With a big (say Melling pump and a Berg cover) pump, your deep sump and external cooler, you can move a lot of oil very quickly into/out of the cooler and really keep the temperature WAY down.

Having problems like you describe, it's most likely the cooler location. Get it out of the engine compartment !

Luck,

TC

Thanks for the follow up. The engine has been running beautifully with temperatures staying around 210 on the hottest of days. I put the Gene Berg dipstick back together just in case! My initial concern was was not unwarranted, but with only 6 months of ownership under my belt, I was definitely thrown off by how much the engine was effected by the summer heat.

Brian

Oil temp is NOT engine temp! In fact oil temps and engine temps are not related that much and are impacted by drastically different things.

Cooling the oil is NOT going to produce cooler head temps (engine temps)as it is possible to install huge oil coolers and still fry your heads.

Another thing that i learned long ago is the fact that added oil capacity doesn't make for cooler oil, it can actually INCREASE oil temps! The added oil capacity only adds more oil to the system and therefore delays the temperature response time. If you drive long enough the oil temps will reach the same level as without the added capacity, but since heat transfers from hotter oil into the rest of the oil in the sump it is not uncommon to see even higher oil temps than one may have experienced with the smaller capacity system.

I have personally had this happen to me and have offered consultation to owners that had the same issues...

Buy real incremented instruments and then start playing, until then its all guess work.

Hi Jake
You mentioned "real incremented instruments". Could you expand upon this? I have thought about getting a temp gauge but have read a plenty of critical info. concerning accuracy.

In the 'for what it's worth' archives, I just logged a 2400 mile roadtrip up to the Intermeccanica B-B-Q.

Through the hotter stretches of Northern CA oil temps were around 220. I run a DTM and an auxillary oil cooler. If I decided to drive a little faster, like a consistent 80-90MPH I saw the oil temp climb a bit. I'd guesstimate 230-240 maybe. But that is 100+ degrees outside and a raging inferno of HP inside!

Head temps were a consistent 340-ish.

I've had to recalibrate the dipstick. I figure at any one time between the engine, oil cooler and pre-oiler I have seven quarts of oil in my system.

On the twisty backroads of Victoria the pre-oiler provided constant oil pressure as I was on and off the go pedal a lot while reeling in my buckboard and staying on my own side of the double yellow lines!

Approximately 22.5 MPG averaged. Not bad for a hot rod!
( another thousand dollars out of my Maui retirement account and I have the most dandy serpentine pulley set up, with idler...no thrown belts this trip!)

Paul, glad to hear that you made the trip with good results..

What did you end up doing for the serpentine arrangement?