Craftsman screwdrivers

I knew eating your Wheaties would have devastating results . My guess is China crap to lower their cost--certainly not ours.

My employer is a Snap-On industrial tool distributor. I heard from one of the reps that Craftsman hand tools were mostly made by Williams Tool.  Craftsman has gone from a Sears holding to a bunch of other companies and is now at Lowes, NAPA, Fastenal and a bunch of others.  They are not made by Williams since Williams was acquired by Snap-on quite a few years ago. I would buy a Pittsburgh brand from Harbor Freight before I would buy Craftsman today.  I am sorry to say that, but it is true.  I heard that the Pittsburgh brand is now made in the same plant as Snap On's low end price line of tools in Asia of course.    

Moral:  Don't pick your teeth with screwdrivers.  It's hard on the screwdrivers.

Somebody else just mentioned Pittsburgh brand at Harbor Freight too

Free replacement for life, like Craftsman used to do. However, still a pain if it breaks while in the middle of a project.  I'll be interested to see what the new trade agreement with China does to some of the imported crapola....

I've got two Pittsburgh floor jacks, a regular and a new low profile since I lowered the Speedster. Both are 3 ton capacity and the old one has worked fine for 6 years. It gets used several times a month. No complaints.

Bought a set in 1968.

Haven't had to replace any yet.

Me too!  Two jacks, and engine stand, four jack stands and a bunch of hand tools.  You have to be careful in Harbor Freight as some of the items are VERY poor quality. Other stuff seems to be just fine for occasional use. (my two cents.) 

A lot of my hand tools are from Sears/Craftsman, having started my collection (it coincided with the purchase of my first car, a '66 bug) in 1974. Their policy of  'you break it we replace it' was used more than a couple of times over the years. It didn't matter how I abused the 3/8" ratchet- you just went back and they gave you a rebuild kit!. I replaced a Philips head screwdriver or 2 somewhere around 5 or 10 years ago (they were lost) and it didn't take long to notice that the tips weren't nearly as nice (or as tough) as the older ones were, so I haven't really been a fan of theirs since.

I worked at Sears when I went to college. I have a bunch of their tools and a nice 2-ton floor jack that I've had since 1984. 

I also inherited my Grandfather's Craftsman stuff from the 50s and 60s.

They have declined in quality, but you'd be better off getting them from Sears rather than ebay. They're most probably knock-offs. 

I also have some Snap-On, Mac, and Matco tools. And some HF stuff(including my lift).

I've broken some Snap-on sockets, a dead-blow hammer and breaker bars and ratchets, just like Craftsman. All replaced when you find the local dealer's truck.

And a couple weeks ago, my bro-in-law and I got a Craftsman torque wrench warrantied at Lowe's.

I find some of the newer HF stuff to be pretty good.

Occasional use tools, lower quality can work,  but certain things you might as well buy the better tool otherwise you just end up replacing them and/or you have to tolerate the frustration of poor results using the tool. 

I said some. I wouldn't use them in a commercial shop. But for me at home, they're mostly fine. 

My lift, the 12 ton press, car skates, all HF.

I bought a composite 3/8" ratchet that I use ALL the time. $8. Seriously.

I have old Craftsman sockets and wrenches passed down from my Dad.  These are from the days before they were chrome plated (1950?).  I can read the sizes on the old ones better than recently purchased laser engraved sockets! 

I checked code on the raw steel looking sockets and they have a C with a circle around it - they date back to 1920-30.  Some say Vanadium.  Apparently the best Craftsman tools from '60's will have a V or V with an upside-down V next to it.

I've got an old Craftsman all-aluminum case saber saw and 3/8" drill - still working fine but am afraid of being shocked by them.

I was a lithograph pressman in the 60's on large presses.  The Snap-On open ends soon wore out and I brought my own Craftsman in which lasted.  Times and merchandise quality have changed.

The latest Craftsman tools are all made in China - Sears and Lowes and others ( ACE ) etc. About 5 years ago I bought another complete set at ACE for a special sale and they were USA made. They switched to China about that time. The local Sears store here is closing along with tons of others nation wide and can't even trade in my broken stuff now - I suppose Lowes will honor but will get a Chinese tool for my USA item unfortunately. I find lots of USA Craftsman at yard sales and pawn shops and Craigslist for way lower money if you are looking.  

I wish I had kept the VW/Porsche/Audi HAZET tools I came across over the years!  They just didn't look nice - being unpolished and not chromed.  Especially like the black plastic screwdriver.  Working on new cars it looks like there are a lot of Torx bolts being used.

If, like Schu, you are watching for older Craftsman tools at yard sales, flea markets and such, also keep an eye peeled for SK Wayne, Snap-On, DeWalt, OTC, Channel-Lock and MAC tools.  The later DeWalt tools tend to be expensive (probably not at yard sales/flea markets) they're lifetime warrantied, too, and the quality remains high (for now).  

I've given up on buying smaller screw drivers and just get the kind that has interchangeable tips and then keep an assortment of tips around; Phillips, Flat, Torx, Allen, etc.  I've still got a big set of micro-screwdrivers from a tool set I've had for electronics work for decades.

All my larger screwdrivers are at least 20 years old and Craftsman or Snap-On so those should outlast me (they don't get used as much, either).  

It's too bad that the newer, mid-range tools are such crap - it takes a little more effort to make a  quality tool (mostly properly heat treating the end result) but the quality of the steel itself going into tools in Asia is far less than what we used to see in the 'States - Lots more impurities in the base metal unless you pay a lot more for quality steel and it seems most current tool producers think poor quality stuff is "good enough".

Gordon Nichols posted:

It's too bad that the newer, mid-range tools are such crap - it takes a little more effort to make a  quality tool (mostly properly heat treating the end result) but the quality of the steel itself going into tools in Asia is far less than what we used to see in the 'States - Lots more impurities in the base metal unless you pay a lot more for quality steel and it seems most current tool producers think poor quality stuff is "good enough".

I think it is mostly the consumers that think poor quality is "good enough".

 If people were willing to pay for a better product, companies would produce better quality products.  I don't believe for a second that China can't produce good quality, I think in most cases they are forced to hit a price point by the importer.  As an example, look at the 6x26 milling machine as sold by many in this country.  It is a copy based on a Clausing design.

Harbor Freight and Grizzly both offer the same basic machine. The HF is $1900, the Griz is $3700.  Look at both of them in person and it is easy to see the superiority of the Gizzly.  I'd hazard a guess that HF sells a lot more.

When I was a kid, my Dad outfitted our small shop with machine tools that were depreciated and swapped out at scrap prices from local manufacturing places like Norton Abrasives, Wyman-Gordon and others.  "Beansie White" ran a tool salvage yard and had regular open house events where they would auction off tools.  Often, they were perfectly good but had reached the end of their accounting life and were retired (sounds a lot like ME!) so if you knew what to look for you could get some fantastic tools for peanuts.  

We had a Bridgeport vertical miller, a 30" Heald lathe, a bunch of bench tools from Heald Machine, a Forney 250 amp welder and probably had less than $2,000 (in 1970 dollars) in the entire shop.  Most of that got scrapped after my Dad passed, although the Bridgeport and lathe are still in town and still making neat stuff (Hot Rod Jimmy got the Bridgeport - took six of us to load it on his trailer).  

Beansie's long gone, but I'm hearing that the thing to watch for now are 15-20 year old CNC machines and accessories.  Just wish I had more shop room - a small Warner-Swasy CNC lathe would be the BOMB!

My friend Randy Machine shop owner in PA  ( some of you have met him) He bought a huge 16 ton top heavy lathe  from a paper mill that used it to wind rolls of paper. He paid $100 for it at auction and $1,400 to get it moved 4 miles on a low boy. Then we...… moved it 35' through his shop with 20 ton jacks, solid roll stock and a small 2 ton hard tire  fork lift, it took two days including making it level. We finally get tone and crack another beer when Randy pipes up saying" Ya ever wonder How those skinny little b*st*rds built  the Pyramids " ?

LI-Rick posted:

Gordon Nichols posted:

It's too bad that the newer, mid-range tools are such crap - it takes a little more effort to make a  quality tool (mostly properly heat treating the end result) but the quality of the steel itself going into tools in Asia is far less than what we used to see in the 'States - Lots more impurities in the base metal unless you pay a lot more for quality steel and it seems most current tool producers think poor quality stuff is "good enough".

I think it is mostly the consumers that think poor quality is "good enough".

 If people were willing to pay for a better product, companies would produce better quality products.  I don't believe for a second that China can't produce good quality, I think in most cases they are forced to hit a price point by the importer.  As an example, look at the 6x26 milling machine as sold by many in this country.  It is a copy based on a Clausing design.

Harbor Freight and Grizzly both offer the same basic machine. The HF is $1900, the Griz is $3700.  Look at both of them in person and it is easy to see the superiority of the Gizzly.  I'd hazard a guess that HF sells a lot more.

It doesn't matter what it is, give people the choice of 2 items and they'll buy the cheaper one every time, with no thought to quality, ease of use or service life. We're getting what we deserve.

PS- you are right- China will produce whatever quality level they're paid to. They make everything from the crap replacement parts we have to re-work to crankshafts and connecting rods for companies like Mercedez Benz and BMW.

Alan Merklin posted:

My friend Randy Machine shop owner in PA  ( some of you have met him) He bought a huge 16 ton top heavy lathe  from a paper mill that used it to wind rolls of paper. He paid $100 for it at auction and $1,400 to get it moved 4 miles on a low boy. Then we...… moved it 35' through his shop with 20 ton jacks, solid roll stock and a small 2 ton hard tire  fork lift, it took two days including making it level. We finally get tdone and crack another beer when Randy pipes up saying" Ya ever wonder How those skinny little b*st*rds built  the Pyramids " ?

Ok, I laughed out loud at that, Alan!

Early last Spring, a gentleman in my town (Phil Platt) died at 84 years old.  Phil had worked his way up to middle management at St. Gobain, the parent company of Norton Abrasives in Worcester, Massachusetts.  Whenever Norton fully depreciated a good piece of tooling machinery, Phil had a deal with Accounting that he had first crack at buying it for scrap prices.  If he passed, it went to Beansie White for auction.  Needless to say, over the years Phil accumulated a very respectable machine shop in the basement of his house.  So much so that he added a three-car garage with a basement onto the side of his Cape house and had a 7' wide door between the two basements and large walk-out doors on both the house and garage to get tools and projects in and out.  His shop was stupendous and, since he started out as a manufacturing engineer, then line supervisor and later production manager, he knew how to use all of his machines.  Interestingly, since he only had all that stuff as a "hobby" he never had to file his home as a business district, even though he was better equipped than most other local machine shops.  You could drive right up to his house and never suspect that there was a machine shop underneath, unless you were sharp enough to see that he had a 3-phase AC power transformer and feed coming from the street.

Once in a great while I would need something custom to be made and might find my way to Phil's with a sketch or something and ask if he was interested in helping.  If he was, he would recommend the material and grade he would need and then build it for me.  All it would ever cost me was the material costs - he never charged me for his time but I did manage to give him a bottle of good Scotch or some craft Rum once in a while around the Holidays, and he was always pleased.

I found this excerpt from his obituary:

"Phil started retirement working with the Blackstone Valley Historian documenting mill building history. He spent much time actively working in the extensive machine shop in his home and helped his son, Halsey, grow his residential general contracting business. Phil was a cabinet maker, welder, machinist, plumber and electrician. He moved a 1940s barn from another part of Grafton to his back yard to store his inventory. In 1987, he built an addition to his home to provide more space for several machine tools and a dark room. He enjoyed teaching his children the use of a variety of tools."

We all need a friend such as that, Gordon.  You were privileged to know him.

One brick at a time, or is a stone at a time.