Before you get too happy, it will still involve some colorful language. Still, it's a lot easier than pulling the engine.
Just a note, if the 36 mm fan nut was properly secured ( blue loc-tite) you're not getting it off w/o an air gun. You can try but first remove the deck lid for better access, but you risk bending the at. pulley edge trying to hold it while you attack the large nut. Then remove the carbs, linkage, alt & stand with shroud get raised and hopefully when you lift the shroud it will clear the dog house cooler. The R & I the alternator and reassemble.
Again, another donut says you're not going to get the fan off the alternator before you remove the alternator. There's just not much room. Assuming you could, I'd be terrified of reassembling it like that.
You can take off the linkage, loosen up the shroud, and remove the backing plate screws, then slide the alternator back on the shroud... and then mutter as you end up about 1/4 short of being able to lift it out cleanly. Rocking the entire shroud back to tip the top enough to get the assembly out might work-- but only if the doghouse cooler doesn't stop the progress before there's enough clearance.
It's about that point that you start to look at the alternator stand studs and wonder what kind of idiot would design it that way (A: "the sainted German engineers"). You can get them out, but my third wagered donut says it won't be with slots in the top of the studs.
It's gotta come out. Good luck.
This is one of those simple but PITA jobs so one must take the light hearted approach by laying out all the necessary tools and pick one hour time slot on the garage clock and go for it.....the best you can. I had installed a rebuilt trans and then motor, be as it may the next day I found a bad reverse grind... ^$%#@! Set the tools out and went at it . H foam seal, custom tins, exhaust, fuel lines, wiring, cables, axles.....motor and tans on the floor in 1 hr. 12 minutes and then....the beer buzzer went off~
If you don't have a cooler in the shroud you can get it out. I've done it on a CMC.
The oil cooler is the thing that I wonder about. I do indeed have a normal VW oil cooler in there. And so i wonder if Lane has that as well, or if he gets to wiggle the shroud because he does not. So: with the oil cooler inside moving the shroud enough to pull the alt+fan with pedestal in place is Mission Impossible? Sure wish I could get a grip on this -- so far not seeing my way clear to any of these approaches. Except the one where the engine ends up out on the floor. This approach at least I can see what needs to be done and how to do it.
Dr. Clock: maybe I should schedule that Garage time at YOUR garage??
I have the stock doghouse cooler in there, and it does limit me, but the amount of movement needed is small.
Tow bar it here and leave it, I'll fit it in ...... I do have a hard top to fit and install Tuesday thru Sturday
El Frazoo posted:And as long as we are discussing auto mechanicing theory here, lets suppose one was able to get those four studs out and the stand+alt removed, etc. Upon reassembly, why not use bolts vs studs?? Can anybody give me that answer??
Because the case material is relatively soft compared to a steel bolt. It'll eventually damage the case threads. You'll get away with it for a while but it's not a long term solution. The proper way to do the modification is to install steel thread inserts at those locations, however, drilling and tapping the holes on an assembled engine is not recommended.
For reference, later engines like in the 912 had an alternator stand with slotted holes on the front (fan side) for studs and normal holes on the rear (pulley side) for bolts. They kept the front studs to make it easy to hold the gasket/baffle in place during re-assembly. Those engines also didn't have a center single-carb intake manifold pipe to get in the way of removal either.
Justin: thanks. I understand about threaded holes in Al, and when designing things would always specify Helicoils in those situations. But I guess the extra time (20 minutes for four holes??) and extra materials ($10??) during assembly is just too much for anyone to contemplate. Might eat into the bottom line too much. There are ways, and there are other ways, and then there is the right way. I'm going to see if I can loosen the shroud and jigger it enough out of the way to allow retraction of alt+fan with pedestal in place. Yes, VWs usually have a center carb/manifold, totally in the way. I have dual carbs and they should not be in the way, only their throttle linkage.
Lane: Happy to hear this report, you are giving me hope. And I thought of you (affectionately, of course) the other day while replacing the small section of rubber gas line between the bottom of my gas tank and the tubing that carries the gas aft. Was using small red spring clips to fasten the hose, the kind you can squeeze with pliers but are really made to be managed with a special pliers-like tool that grips them securely -- which tool of course I do not have. {Can you guess where this is going??} The pliers can slip. And so they did, and the little red thingy went flying, yet to be found. I had some spares.
Doc Clock: I may give this a go per Lane's concept. If it comes to nothing, I'll give you a shout. Gotta order the new alt first. REALLY don't want to do the R&R on the engine.
Just to assure you further, I've been able to R&R the entire shroud with the engine in the car. It's a b***h that involves much cursing and a little blood, but it can be done even with the doghouse cooler.
El Frazoo posted:The oil cooler is the thing that I wonder about. I do indeed have a normal VW oil cooler in there. And so i wonder if Lane has that as well, or if he gets to wiggle the shroud because he does not. So: with the oil cooler inside moving the shroud enough to pull the alt+fan with pedestal in place is Mission Impossible? Sure wish I could get a grip on this -- so far not seeing my way clear to any of these approaches. Except the one where the engine ends up out on the floor. This approach at least I can see what needs to be done and how to do it.
I think you just need to pull the shroud up high enough to clear the studs for the alt. stand.
I'm starting to get a little confidence in the concept. I know for a fact that I am expert in the cursing and blood thing -- quite capable at generating blue air, as they say. So I have that covered. If push come to "Oh shyt!!" I can always tow it to Alan's and then see how to really do it.
Rusty: If read Lane's post s correctly, he gets the alt out with the pedestal in place. Maybe I got that wrong. ??
Nope, you're right. The alternator pedistal stays in place.
Laner: When I get into this and it just won't work, you're coming up here and showing me how!!!
Sure! You buy the ticket.
I'll hold the beer...
You know the time you've spent here trying to find an easier way, the motor could have been dropped, fixed and back on the road 2 days ago.
CRHEMI Bill: while you are right about the time, perhaps, I just have a real hard time jumping into something with so many unknowns. And obvious differences of opinion. I like to have some semblance of a plan with a certain expectation. My initial thoughts about what would be entailed here were WAY out of bounds, so it was time to step back and regroup. It's what the SOC is all about, IMHO. In any event, I have just ordered the new alternator, so have to wait for it to arrive.
And does anybody remember my question about what the downside of running the current set-up as-is might be?? Seems as if the battery is getting charged and maybe even not overcharged. Something clearly is not right (one or more diodes has gone south, methinks) but the net result seems to be at least marginally operable. D+ voltage is too high (supposed to be within a fraction of a volt of B+, says here), but battery shows charging, and everything works, so ??? Comments??
I'd feel better if you were measuring voltage right at battery with engine running (vs alt posts). That would ensure battery is being charged. I'd check fluid level in battery (often have to pry off caps). If low refill with distilled water. It is possible to over charge a battery and boil off the fluid in it.
Like you said - worse case is a tow home (if you have tow bar and hitch on other car or AAA then not a big thing. I wouldn't leave it stranded along side road though as it would vanish. Order parts and put the job off to a cold winter day.
Kelly, I understand. I'm the type that will pull it out and then come looking for help vs doing the smarter research thing. You'll get it done and realize it wasn't as bad as you thought it could be. Good luck!
... I am just now putting a PowerPoint presentation together outlining my planned approach, materials needed, with manpower estimates and anticipated program costs, and milestone chart with deliverables noted. Should be sent through management and procurement Depts for sign-off in a couple of weeks, then I can show it to all.
PS: 90 amp alt'r ordered.
El Frazoo posted:PS: 90 amp alt'r ordered.
I didn't realize the bidding and procurement process was so fast.
Well, we are running a REALLY tight ship here, with very few (actually none) extra administrators on staff. Lean and mean gets it done. Along with a fast internet connection, a valid credit card and a few beers.
Have you done the necessary EVM calculations yet. PM requires those, you know.
As a retired PM (and very glad to say that), I gotta tell ya......A couple weekends ago I attended the "Ty-Rods Old Timers Day" Hot Rod show here in Massachusetts. To bring your car to this show you have to have owned the car you are invited to bring (shown cars were "invitation only") for at least twenty years as a Hot Rod to allow you to register. This is a big deal in New England and the cars are all, every single one of them, to-die-for Hot Rods. Check out this year's cars here (and feel free to skip around - it's a 40 minute video):
http://www.ty-rods.org/reunion.html
Anyway, I'm BS'ing with a guy who used to work for me at a couple of past companies and three other guys walk up who apparently worked with us at a prior place. Dennis, my old project manager, says hi! to the others, one of whom I know, but I draw a blank on the other two, as do they on me. Dennis explains that I was one of the "Power Point Guys", which they immediately understood. What? I got a "PP" tattoo'd on my forehead or sumthin?
Roger on the "tight ship" there, Kelly. The only way to roll.........
Gordon, thanks for sharing that video. What an awesome show of cars!
Update, sort of: alternator delivered, so no more excuses. Will be diving in shortly. Will take pics and report out, like a good soldier.
If you get hung up or have questions give me a call 717-860-8four76
Hope you didn't violate the Buy American Act!
CompuFire?? Where are those made?? I do note that the unit itself has no corporate markings at all. Just like the one that is in there now. Hmmm . . .
Major bump here. Note the Sept date on the discovery of my alternator problem, diagnosed as faulty diodes, so bought a new one. I have wrung my hands for months now about how in the hell to get the alt and fan combo out, so can do the swap. then winter happened, and now its spring and I GOTTA get this done. Well the first R part of R&R went pretty well, I must say. Loosening the shroud, just two bolts at either side, allows enough lift of the shroud to get the fan clear, and so it was -- hoo-ray. Almost easy-peasy. So now, how to get the fan off the old and on to the new?? Well, the theory is plain enough, but the practice has me stumped. Impact tools are called for I do believe, and so will head to a Porsche shop (Tif's, Annapolis) on Friday to see how its done. So no final chapter yet. I bet there is a shade-tree secret here about how to do it, but I'm stumped. I am reminded of the problem I had with my lawn tractor a while back, where there is this nylon fan that cools the transmission that went bad. Is held on to its shaft by a nut and no way to lock the shaft. Fairly small diameter stuff. So I made my own impact wrench, which is to say I got the right six-sided box end, and arranged stuff such that I could whack the end of the wrench with a hammer. after many whacks, the nut loosened, and the job was done. Had to swing that hammer pretty hard. Can't figure out how to arrange things on this much larger and heavier equipment. So will punt, and head to the shop on Friday. Yet more to come.
What about putting a screwdriver through the hold down slot on the pulley?
Maybe, but that piece (the pulley) is just sheet metal, basically, and that fan nut is a whopper. Plus the whole thing is now free vs. strapped down to the engine. Kinda need to grab three things really hard all at the same time and apply a gazillion ft-lbs. Or use impact tools, which I do not have. So will go to a local P-shop and see how they do it. Their reply to my inquiry went something like this: "We have been doing that for about 40 years."
It's 40 ft-lbs. P-shop or not, borrow an impact wrench and a compressor and it will brip right off. DO not use a vice or vice grips. The urge will be there. Don't.