De-tune a 2332cc type 1

Back in the day, this was called a set-up.

Not sure what you mean?

I asked for some help on the behalf of a friend, car has too much power for his liking, He is elderly, (like me) and would like an easier ride

Well, Art, if there are 1,000 threads on HP, 999 ask how to increase it. You may get some tongue-in-cheek replies.  If I knew how to insert the smiley face, it would go HERE.

At least most reply's here, have no skin in the game. Thus I can trust the info and pass it on. He is talking with a commercial entity, I think.

Quickest way to de-tune a 2332 is to swap it with a 1915. I've got one if your friend would like to trade.

A 2332 is a pretty high strung motor. I don't imagine there will be a lot of ways to 'tone it down' that won't impact it's reliability. I could be wrong. Maybe we could explain to your buddy that the throttle isn't binary.  (tongue in cheek)

What is it that he does't like? The torque? The top end?

84 mm stroke x 94 mm displacement is indeed a hot setup. I'd say impossible to go back.  You'd need at least a new crank - very center of engine and new carbs and cam.  Wish he were closer - I gladly trade a couple lower HP engines. I'm old but I'd learn to manage the burn outs.  Now that would go just right with your crankcase breather set up. 

Years ago my Dad bought my Mom a Ford stationwagon with V8 - after she sprayed house with stones leaving the driveway, he put a piece of 2x4" under the gas pedal.

A 2332 is a great engine.  My CBPerformance built engine has never given me a lick of trouble, and it provides sufficient torque and power to do whatever I ask of it.

Why would you want to 'tone it down'?  Just drive it sensibly if the power is a problem.

you could always put a limiter on the throttle cable to prevent it from being pulled accidentally, like in using your right foot and pushing the pedal to the metal..

Not happy with the engine ? Pull the engine, sell it and throw in something the man would be happy with. 

With respect, if the owner just want to putter around and have fun with it, Art...pull the bugger and get someone to install a straight stock 1600 engine. Nothing wrong with that. I bought my Speedster in Boise, Idaho and drove it to Upstate, NY then home to Canada and had a blast. A straight stock 1600 engine. Not fast...but a blast it was Sept 2010..

( and if I had a chance, I'd drive that stock 1600 and do that same trip tomorrow )

You see Ted, that's why I came here...."What is it that he does't like? The torque? The top end?"

I have no idea, and I don't  know the difference. Remember I drive a 1641cc. I see the specs and think, hippity hop. For example, the accelerator pedal travel distance on his, is the same as mine, but the "press distance" gives remarkably different results.  This guy is a smart guy,   All I can do is translate.

I (?) think his use is into town for groceries, coffee, etc. and back home

I'll bite.

Art,

There would be no shortage of buyers for this engine, and I'd think he could get what he's got pulled and swapped with a 1600-1776 with a PICT34 at no cost.

It would make the car a lot more tame. It would also make it worth about $5K less.

I'd think he could accomplish the same thing by driving with some moderation, and keeping his resale value up.

Sorry for my clumsy approach, Art. No offence intended.

Please see my edited reply about three posts above. Nothing wrong with sliding around with a bone stock 1600 if that suits the driver. It's all about what suits who and I failed to state my intentions in the correct direction. Thanks.

Thanks David!!

Put some 40's on It'd be cheap easy way to dumb it down and use less gas. Or sell it hand put the displacement (1600,19,2.0 etc.) that he likes in . He really should drive someone else's car that has a smaller motor. 

Bill;

Very good point! I'm about 4-5 hours away. I'll see if any speedsters in his area, via the map here.

FWIW, the 40s (set up right) will be about 90% of what he's got now, and maybe even stronger down low (where you can feel it). For grins and giggles, I put a set of 40 Dells on my (then) 2332, and it ran like a scalded dog. WAY better down low than the 48s.

There's no going back once you cross the river Styx.

…on the way to Paradise Hotel. 

Or hotel Cali .....?

This thread boggles my mind.

Here's a VERY easy solution to his problem.....have him go easy on the gas pedal.  When he does that the engine will not rev quickly and the car will not accelerate like a bat out of hell.

I owned a V8 powered Miata for three years.  Big engine in a small car....LOTS of HP and torque, but when I was easy on the gas pedal it drove like a stock 1600cc Miata.

You read my mind, Ron.

I mean, how many times have you seen a hot car going really slow? Of course, it's usually some old geezer driving the hot car - 'cause he can afford the damn thing...

Regarding the carbs, keep the 44s and detune them by installing smaller venturis, pretty cheap through CB Performance.

Old Geezers, eh Terry ?....Mangez

tighten your belt for a while and suddenly your an old geezer with a 356. .. lol

Alternately, he could pull one of the spark-plug wires. 

Art,I was asked years ago when I was still riding Harley's."how fast will it go"? My response,"as fast as I want". Acceleration and speed are two completely different issues. Torque will give you great acceleration off the line. Of course gearing is an integral component of acceleration,as well. 200hp vs. 75 hp,both can get you to 85 mph! I would tell your elderly friend that he can drive his speedy at whatever speed and rate of acceleration he likes. He is in control,and will regulate the level of adrenalin rush! If he is afraid of the cars power,park it and plant petunias in it!! My 2 centavos.

Maybe somebody should buy that nice-looking VS in Oklahoma, and do an engine swap for Art's friend? That would certainly take car of things, it's a 1600 with dual single-throats.

 I can tell you how to de-tune a hot rod V-8 pretty easily and inexpensively...but these flat-4's I just don't know enough about.

I think what the guys have suggested of swapping out the 2332 engine for something milder would be the best and easiest way to go. The owner could hang on to the hot rod engine and offer it with the car if ever sells it, or possibly swap it for a milder engine and the labor to install it...I'm sure there is someone who would be in the market for a good 2332 at the right price...''only driven to coffee and the market on nice summer Sunday's since new"...LOL

alnbobbikay, I always get that question about the Cobra..."How fast will it go?" "it'll do the speed limit easily" is my general response with a smile.

I usually answer with "I don't know, I haven't figured that out yet" or "faster than anyone needs to go". 

When people see the 180mph on the reverse sweep Smith's speedo I get 'will it go that fast?' My response is "uh, not with me in it" or " I honestly don't know I chicken out at about 120 with plenty of throttle left"

Art:

If he drives your 1641 and likes THAT performance over what he has with his 2332, then I would agree with selling what he has and buying a newly-built, turn-key 1641-ish with the proceeds.  He may (should) come out ahead on the deal (money left in his pocket).

Why?

Because even with smaller carbs (the easiest first step before getting into engine internals), the engine will try to perform as it was built.  It will still be twitchy and sensitive to the gas pedal in the low and mid-range (maybe even worse, as Stan alluded) and never be a "mellow" driving experience.  I've tried to "dumb-down" type 1 engines in the past and, simply put, it don't work well for a lot of different reasons.

There will be a few eager potential buyers out there (and on here) for a well-built 2332.  Get him to document who built it and what's in it and do a little research on here and the Samba for a price range and go from there.  If he orders a turn-key 1641 (or even a nice 1776 like Musbjim had for years and loved) soon, he could have them swapped before the driving season gets into full swing.

Sound like a plan?? 

He could always goto Carlisle drive a few and see which other car he could swap with, oh I mean swap engines with... you never know a two day weekend project in Carlisle might work out. 

Thanks to EVERYONE for the suggestions and comments. I just exchanged emails, he reports that Jeff Gervais of GEM VW, (the engine builder) is going to re-jet the engine. I hope this works out for him.

Art

What about just going to smaller venturies (32mm)? Possibly take a LITTLE advance out of the timing.

Well, OK, rejetting might do it to some degree, but it won't turn this meat-head engine into a 1600.  Gordon and others have said it: buy a smaller engine and sell this one.  Some hassle in the exchanges, granted, but you get something that makes sense in the end.  Otherwise, this whole idea makes my head hurt.  I have a GEM 2332 and love it.  Can't imagine not having it.  Does this mean I am not old?

Old is just a word.

These days, it's not even a state of mind......

Remember.....Peter told us; "Never Grow Up!"

Roger that!  Long live the Madness!!

My wife says I suffer from "Peter Pan Syndrome"...LOL...cool!

I thank everyone for the help. I probably caused confusion, not intended. He is friend so I wanted to help, regardless of the "different" direction than most of us take. I'd love that engine, but it's out of my paygrade in so many ways.

Art

PS no one is too old here all just a little madness.

The only way to REALLY detune it is to take it apart, drop the compression a ton and change the cam and/or rockers. And then you'll have a horribly running engine. Re-jetting is only going to "fix" the way it runs. If the jetting is wrong and the engine literally IS an on-off switch, proper jetting and tuning will fix that. Is it an on-off switch, or is it very drivable? Then I could understand.

Get a 1641 or 1776 with dual single-throats and call it a day.

Sorry to be very opinionated, but detuning it is like putting lipstick on a pig. Every part of a properly-designed engine only works harmoniously if all the parts are working together. An engine is an air pump, you can't make it smaller.