deep sump clearance

Is there sufficient ground clearance to run a deep sump extender. An additional 1.5 US quarts at a cost of 2.75 inches of reduced clearance.

Given that we are already +/- 2.5 inches lower as it is, it seems pretty marginal to me.
This car is not built yet so cannot just measure for myself, and I would appreciate some input before I import one.

Thanks

Depends on the rear ride height i.e. tires size etc. Still would have to be a bit careful where you go.

Robert,

Go with a CB Performance Thin Line sump.
Less than 2" deep. I haven't had any clearance issues for 5 years.
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=201

I'll measure mine and post...

I'll measure mine and post...



4:3/4" from bottom to garage floor

Mark

Are you using the 2.75 sump?

"...measure mine and post..."

Le Marteau - I totally expected you to say...'man, that water is DEEP'

What Terry said. Mine works great---just be aware that you are low and watch for obstructions.

If you get the Thin Line, email me for the clear and easy directions that eliminate the hassle of balancing 4-5 stacked parts while you shove the stack bacck into the sump while putting the gasket on the studs and pushing the plate back on against a stiff spring while trying to start an acorn nut!!!. It's a 2 minute job now rather than a :30 one for me.---anyone else is welcome too.---Jack

Hey Jim,

I remember that from a Richard Pryor record I had as a kid. "Yep, that water's cold, and it deep too!"

After my dad found that record, he promptly threw it away, and spoiled all my fun.

'El Guapo" LOL......

I wish someone would come up with a remote oil tank kit like the 911's used for theses cars . We would not have to deal with the clearance issue ..Stumps are a invitation for road debris..

Barry,

CB Performance offers a dry sump kit for VW engines. I have had one for some time but have more recently moved on to an Autocraft dry sump. I run nearly 11 quarts of oil in mine what with an Accusump as well as the oil tank, and oil cooler, the capacity of the engine sump, and the remote filter. A lot of plumbing but it works well as long as you don't put the oil reservoir too high up in the chassis...don't ask me how I know that and don't ask me about the the big oil stain on my garage floor....

Jim definitely has experience w/dry sump and knows what he is talking about.

Barry, what size sump are you talking? On my Spyder, I have a CB thinline 1 1/2 quart. It is NOT the lowest part of the car, in fact it isn't any lower than the bottom of the car. 15K + miles and counting.

I aggree with Danny P, it's not the lowest point. But there are some nasty speed bumps that I still like to avoid.

Boston Bob E

Jim ! I thinking out side my box again.. Standard bug case, 2 additional drilling on it One of them as a return on the alternator stand as a return line and a low pressure Tilton pump to cycle the the oil from a additional 5 quart tank. with zero pressure third line that acts as a oil level balancer to prevent engine over fill.

It would also be a good place to plumb in the oil cooler and being low pressure less likely to pop a line .,,And if the tank is finned aluminum even more cooling.

Now do ya see what I mean.?

A dry stump is good for racing, but for long hard interstate driving This could be the ultimate system. 8 quarts of oil with extra cooling.

THINK ABOUT IT1

Barry, just FYI but all the external plumbing in a dry sump car is pretty low pressure. The scavenge pump pulls all the oil out of the sump, and in my case I routed it through a full filter (WIX 51515R) and then to a large oil cooler and then to the tank. The only "pressure" in this circuit is whatever backpressure that develops in the oil line / filter / cooler pieces themselves. The oil tank is at zero pressure. The oil in the case behaves "normally" under pressure (provided by the pressure pump in the system) and is not routed all over the place. I did have an Accusump that connects to the tapped oil gallery on the front of the case, but that is pretty much unnecessary on a dry sump case...a not needed complication if the dry sump is working correctly...

There are some claims that a dry sump will result in HP gains (as a result of reducing parasitic drag from oil sloshing about in the case and impeding rotation of the crank and rods)....I think in a VW case this may be less of a problem than say a big V8 of one kind or another. The real advantage of the dry sump IMO is constant oil availability to the engine under extreme cornering, braking, RPM's, and acceleration. Some fair number of horizontally opposed engines will push a lot of oil into the valve covers under these circumstances, nothing like 7500 rpm and too much oil is in the valve covers, and oil pressure drops.....hence the dry sump system in a lot of performance cars. This is a fairly common problem in VW engines in drag cars....and a real reason why some number of them blow up....not bad engine building or parts, but bad oil management under extreme conditions.

My Accusump probably provides constant availability of oil.

I installed the CB thinline sump on my motor, along with full flow oiling and remote oil filter. The oil temp went down at least 20 degrees F on my 2180cc running 8.75 CR. The sump is not the lowest part of the car, so have not worried about it.

The engine runs at a steady 165 degrees F on the highway, and will only run up to 180 or more if I get into stop and go traffic. Once the air starts running below the engine the temp goes down immediately. More oil with more cooling fins is always good in an air and oil cooled engine. These items are wise upgrades on a performance engine.

Chuck

Chuck--I had the same experience. Before I added the Thin Line sump I had pretty high temps as reported my a Manton Temp oil dipstick---220 degrees and sometimes even a bit more. With the Thin line I can do 500 mile days at 70-75 mph with 185-195 max oil temps.

A lot of prople said that more oil won't make for a cooler-running engine--that it just took longer for it to heat up but they don't understand how the air flows both over and under the sump, the way it's made, plus the fins, and that sump does cool the oil. And there's a lot of air flowing around the sump at 75 mph.

The Thin Line sump was a great addition to my type 1 engine.

And Jack liked that Type 1 so much - he went out and bought a Raby Type 4!

David---that's a hoot. Actually I really enjoyed the Type I and it served me well. Two round trips to Carlisle, PA from Hot Springs, Arkansas plus two round trips to Tail Of the Dragon in the Smoky Mountains and back home, Plus many weekend jaunts ---all without a single problem. Gotta admire that. Whoever ends up with this engine will get a proven,reliable engine that has been tested with 10 hour days of 70-75 mph while getting almost 30 mpg and using zero oil between changes. I never touched the carbs except to replace air filters. Would someone want an engine like this or a brand new "mexicrate"? I know which one I'd choose!

Whoever built this Type I for Vintage (Mr.Rascon,I believe) did a fantastic job on it,without a doubt.

If it was so great why did I change it? Read the thread under engines to see the several reasons.

Jack is a convert to the Tim-the-Tool-Man philosophy: "MORE POWER! URH URH URH!!!"

I'm guessing that the first thing in order for Jack and his new Jake Raby engine/trans, is to troll the boulevards for unsuspecting Mustangs/Chargers/Camaros/Z4s/Boxsters/etc...

I know I would!

The #1 reason I made the switch to the Type IV is reliability--not that I didn't have that in the Type 1. It will be fun to dust some kid in a riceburner but being able to take a long trip without loading tools and spare parts for repairs will be very nice. The only reason that my car was almost 50-50 front to reat weight when Danny weighed ir at Carlisle was the losd of parts and tools in the front
area. It's all good.

LIER! LIER! Sorry folks, Jack gets melancholy when his speedy isn't at home. Check out the MassIVe 4 thread . . . .a small comment about "plus at least 60 Hp at the rear wheels . . "? Well, duh?

I don't deny the extra power will be fun but still it will have the reliability with the additional oomph.

Have we answered the original questions about the thin line sump?