Depth of a nipple hubcap

That is the great thing about standards, there are so many to choose from.

I had a similar problem with the front wheel bearing covers sticking out too far.  It was solvable with wheel spacers - most cars don't have space in rear for wheel spacers though.

I had the same problem with my rear axle nuts and my Fuchs. I bought a box of stainless washers and added 3-4 to each lug bolt.

@Michael Pickett posted:

I had the same problem with my rear axle nuts and my Fuchs. I bought a box of stainless washers and added 3-4 to each lug bolt.

Please tell me you’re joking.

@dlearl476 posted:

Please tell me you’re joking.

Nope, it might have been two washers, but just enough enough so the Fuchs center caps were flush on the wheels. Danger, Will Robinson?

search wheel offsets

"Nope, it might have been two washers, but just enough enough so the Fuchs center caps were flush on the wheels. Danger, Will Robinson?"

Mmmmmmmmmm................    If the washers are between the hub and the wheel and have a big OD similar in width to the bosses on the back of the wheel, while I don't see a huge problem, I might be happier by measuring the thickness of the washer stack and then replacing them with a 5X130 spacer of the same thickness from Pelican or some other place.  They sell them in 2mm increments.  They would provide a lot more surface support for the torque of the wheel as it is flexing against the hub.  The whole assembly would just be much more "solid".

https://www.pelicanparts.com/s...=yes&host=search

I run 32mm (1-1/4") spacers on all four wheels and got them from Pelican 20 years ago.  Several people told me I would have all kinds of wheel bearing problems (20 years ago) and I have had no problems with them at all, including a number of track days.  These are pretty similar, machined Billet (Mine aren't anodized):

https://www.pelicanparts.com/M....htm?pn=REN-LS-10-30

  Makes your washers look pretty inexpensive, don't they?

I don't know what bolt pattern Mike has but I agree with Gordon's assessment. Buy a good quality wheel spacer pair for the rear. That will probably do it.

Anthony will just have to watch the tire/ fender clearance.

I will say that Porsche used 5 individual machined spacers on the 550 Spyders to gain track width. Apparently it worked at 130 mph...

@Michael Pickett posted:

Danger, Will Robinson?

Not something I would do, but I don’t know if I’m smart enough to explain why. Try this: take a toothpick between your thumb and forefinger of each hand in the middle of the tooth pick. Try to bend it. Now put your fingers at the end of the toothpick. Try and bend it again. IMO, that’s what you’re doing with your lug nuts.
You’re also taking the load that’s usually spread out across the hub/wheel and putting it all on the 5 weakest points on the wheel: the holes.

I’m probably just paranoid but, once again, it’s not something I would do.

@DannyP posted:

I will say that Porsche used 5 individual machined spacers on the 550 Spyders to gain track width. Apparently it worked at 130 mph...

Yeah, but those were machined, threaded spacers, not a handful of loose washers.

I’m no mechanical engineer, but it seems to me to be apples and oranges.

TBH, I’m not a big fan of wheel spacers in the first place, but millions use them. In fact, Porsche sells factory spacers for their OEM wheels so who am I to doubt?

As I'm sure most of you know, Fuchs are not hub centric and use ball seat nuts to center the wheel. The area of contact on the back of the Fuchs is a small trapezoid around each lug hole.

The washers I use go to 3 edges of the trapezoids. Maybe I'll look into spacers for Fuchs, but I'm not sure I'll break the bank if they're "Porsche" priced.

Thanks for the replies and suggestions.  I’m concerned the rear tires (185/65’s) may have clearance issues if I use spacers and have decided to install the nipple style cap at this point.

@dlearl476 posted:

Yeah, but those were machined, threaded spacers, not a handful of loose washers.

I’m no mechanical engineer, but it seems to me to be apples and oranges.

Were they threaded? They don't need to be threaded, just slide on the studs with no play. And as long as the nut engages all the threads, it is quite safe.

You are correct that a handful of washers are not the same as a single, machined piece. And they were a large enough diameter to take the load of the wheel. But honestly, the ball-seat area is pretty small to begin with.

Mike wrote: "The area of contact on the back of the Fuchs is a small trapezoid around each lug hole."

Yeah, that's what I was thinking about when I wrote my post so I tried to be careful not to criticize too much.  I have the same Fuchs wheels with the same mounting bosses so there isn't 360º of contact to the hub, just those five spots, so using big washers would seem to make some sense - especially looking at the cost of a pair of thick spacers pushing $100 smackerals.

I also went with 32mm (1-1/4") thick spacers back 20 years ago and like half a dozen people told me they would fail or cause my wheel bearings to fail prematurely.  20 years later, none of that stuff happened, even after a few more than spirited track days.  

You do you, @Michael Pickett   You do you.

@DannyP posted:

Were they threaded? They don't need to be threaded, just slide on the studs with no play. And as long as the nut engages all the threads, it is quite safe.

You are correct that a handful of washers are not the same as a single, machined piece. And they were a large enough diameter to take the load of the wheel. But honestly, the ball-seat area is pretty small to begin with.

They’re threaded according to the Road Scholar article where I found the picture:

“The 1957 Carrera GT 356 coupe and Carrera GT Speedster used the 60mm wide front drum brakes from the Spyder. Consequently, these ‘GT’ wheels have 20mm more backspacing than a stock 356 wheel to accommodate the wider drums and provide the same front track width. The same offset was used on the rear wheels, but five threaded barrel type spacers were used so the rear track would match the front.”https://roadscholars.com/wheel...y-porsche-road-rims/

Once again, apologies to actual mechanical engineers but it seems to me them being threaded would integrate them as part of the wheel/hub assembly. A simple slip on spacer wouldn’t do that and it seems like it would exponentially increase the shear force on the lug nuts/studs.

• Clamping Force: This is a type of compression that the bolt applies to the joint, holding the two components together.
• Preloading Force: Turning the bolt causes the threads to engage and stretch, which produces the preload force that keeps the threads in place.
• Shear Force: The shear force is the transverse pressure working against the bolt in a perpendicular direction. It can be present alone or in combination with tension force.
• Tension Force: Tension force applies to the length of the bolt, providing pressure along its vertical dimension, rather than its width.

The clamping force accomplishes the task of holding multiple parts together, and is determined by the difference between the preloading force and the tension force. When the strength of the tension force equals that of the preload force, the bolt fails and the joint breaks apart. Generally, higher preload force translates into higher clamping force, which makes for a stronger bolted joint. Ideally, precise bolt installation and tightening will create a joint that yields little or no direct shear force. More detailed equations can be found at Keeping It All Together. https://www.thomasnet.com/arti...ware/how-bolts-work/

Then again, maybe I just worry too much.

The stainless moon caps look good too--no P crest but I don't mind.

@dlearl476 posted:

Then again, maybe I just worry too much.

Yup. I have spacers on my Cayman when I run the track wheels. They are 18mm thick in the back and simply use 20mm longer lug bolts.

@dlearl476 posted:

Then again, maybe I just worry too much.

@DannyP posted:

Yup. I have spacers on my Cayman when I run the track wheels. They are 18mm thick in the back and simply use 20mm longer lug bolts.

Flat Six Motorsports has sold thousands of spacers for modern day 911's, Macan, Cayennes, Boxster, Caymans, etc. and I've never heard of any issues with them. These cars are heavier, go faster, and get driven harder than any 356 ever will.

Does anyone make the 205 big VW-356 boot pattern spacers in different thicknesses .?

@Anthony M, I asked someone on another forum that just was gifted a nipple hubcap to measure it. He reports it’s 2.5” from the edge of the cap to the bottom of the nipple.

Empi has a 3/8" wide 5 spacer and below link has 1/4 and 1/2" spacers.

Wehrs Wide 5 Wheel Spacer - Performance Bodies

@WOLFGANG,  right from Wehrs website:

Description

Wehrs Wide 5 Wheel Spacer

- Fine tune your track width to the max

- Fits Any Wide 5 Hub except Volkswagen Wide 5 Pattern

- Available in 1/4" or 1/2"

Says it doesn’t fit VW Wide 5?  I wonder who’s Wide 5 it fits?

Some American stock/dirt cars use a wide5 pattern that is NOT 5 x 205.

@DannyP posted:

Some American stock/dirt cars use a wide5 pattern that is NOT 5 x 205.

Some old Flathead Fords come to mind...

@imperial posted:

Does anyone make the 205 big VW-356 boot pattern spacers in different thicknesses .?

A friend had to fit 1" spacers on the front wheels in his '67 Beetle to compensate for the maligned narrowed beam that had been fitted by a previous owner; every time he wanted to steer his stock 165-15 tires would with the pan and body on both sides. I never understood the excessive narrowing of the beams that make an otherwise cool car look like a tricycle.

Link: https://ljaircooledengines.com...lEAQYASABEgL9Z_D_BwE