Difference in L and R rear body to tire spacing

I know it has been said that CMC replicas have this problem. My car has this problem, but the rear left tire (driver side) touches the body sometimes (I guess in speed turns) making me not too feel too confident to go ANYWHERE with the car. (you can see the mark in one of the pictures)

The car is running on 165's tires and with narrow steel wheels. I attach some pictures so you can see for yourself.

My question is, how do you CMC owners have sorted out this problem? I have seen people running on 185's and wide wheels, how did you solve it? What should I do to solve it?

Thanks in advance

Could be a suspension adjustment problem. I know that when the VW rear suspension is lowered the tire start to squat with the tops of wheels/tires move inwards while the lower part of the wheels/tires squat outwards. A slight adjustment could solve your problem of hitting the body.

Are you missing the fenderwell lip on the right side? You can do some careful grinding on the lip on the left side to get some additional clearence. Is your car lowered alot? Sometimes if they are too low you get some rubbing. Maybe bumping it up a notch on the torsion rods?

You may also want to consider offset wheels. I believe there is an article in the Knowledge Section on wheel offset..

I'm using 550 Spyder rear wheels. Rims are offset more to the inside of the car. Running 195X65's with no clearance problems (non-flare).

Martin
I had the same problem.I was running 165 on a 4,5 rim. Now I run 5,5 rim with 185-65-15 tires. I sent my wheel (the one that is close to the body) to http://www.stocktonwheel.com/ and they change the offset for me. If you want to do this,you should wait until winter.If you have more question let me know.

Had to look at the drivers side one a few times. I could swear it was turned. I was thinking WTF, 4-wheel steering? Looks like you may have a sag on that wheel. But on many CMC's that I have seem there is one wheel closer to the body than the other. I think it was a mold issue hence why it was repeated many times. Off set wheels would be the answer but you may need to shim the other a touch to get it just right and equal. I may consider this as well. Since the 165's are er...well....not KEWL enough.

You think that with offset 195's would work?

Where can you procure offset rims and what would the spec's be?

Mike
Check w/Carey Hines. Got mine from Chuck Beck. They are chrome Mangel wheels used on Spyders, rim offset ~1 1/2" to the inside. Will not fit on front but gobs of room in back for at least 195/65/15s.

I'm running on Center Line rims with four-inch outside and two-inch inside spacing in the rear and three and three on the front. I shortened the front axle tubes, rear axle tubes and torsion.
The rims came from a company called Pacific Customs; found them in a Wide 5 through an advertisement in Hot VWs.

...Cory, you could have saved yourself a lot of trouble if just got the Off-Centerline Wheels in the first place!

Peace - Out!

Ok guys,

thanks everybody, I have new figures now, a friend of mine took some alignment data some months ago as I wasn't happy with the way the car felt when driving and we managed to align the front wheels but we didn't know how to align the rear wheels, maybe someone can tell me how to do it now.

Here is the data the alignment machine gave us after the alignment:

FRONT WHEELS
4.80mm toe in (LEFT WHEEL +2.40;RIGHT WHEEL +2.40)
LEFT WHEEL -0

A picture of one side from the rear would have been better - but yours looks like an IRS transmission. Check out following link --- on picture the right is swing axel and the left is irs.

http://www.customspeedparts.de/content/en/technic/getriebetechnik_2.php

Clearly IRS

Is it? Looking at the drawing it is like the one on the right, which you say is Swing axle...????

Can anyone give the right alignment data for whichever suspension system I have?

It's IRS Ignacio. Here's the specs as per the Bentley VW manual: "Rear wheel camber (with spring plates set): 50'(minutes) plus or minus 40'(minutes) Maximum difference between sides: 45'(minutes) Rear wheel (with correct camber): 0 degrees plus or minus 15'(minutes) Maximum deviation in wheel alignment: 10'(minutes) If the track is not within a tolerance of 10'(minutes), correct by moving wheels in or out. If the total toe angle exceeds 15'(minutes) and the camber exceeds -2 degrees, loosen the diagonal arm/spring plate mounting bolts and shift the arm's position to obtain the largest possible positive camber. Recheck the toe angle and, if necessary, adjust it by moving the diagonal arm forward or rearward in the slotted spring plate holes. If the camber varies more than 45'(minutes), the torsion bars must also be adjusted."

Sorry got my right and lefts confused.

Ok guys, I really want to thank you all 'cause you are being of great help, now if I could only know the name of the parts you are naming, it is kind of difficult but I am getting there...

Last night I decided to loose the three bolts in the first picture to move the wheel back a bit, it was pretty difficult to move it, so I placed a small car lift between the torsion bar and the drum and managed to move the wheel a bit back, I then retightened the bolts and mounted the wheel back in place, and now I have some more clearance, I went for a drive to test and the car feels a lot better now, it tends to go to the left now which didn't before but definately feels better. I have measured the track front and back of the rear wheels and I get 134 mm front, 131.5mm back

Ricardo, what is the right procedure to do what you are telling me to do? I mean is it safe to move things the way I do (with the car lift)? If not, can you explain me (the monkey way... "leave the wheel in place, untight these bolts, using whatever move the wheel...) Thanks

I attach two more pictures to see if I get the naming right.

Again many thanks

Ignacio

Ignacio; you have the names right. Part of the procedure is as you've done but I couldn't tell you exactly how to do it since I haven't done it. Since you asked for the specs I looked up in my Bentley manual and posted them. I understand that to get those measurements exactly as the factory intended you need specialized equipment so I suggest you take the car to an alignment shop. I wish you the best of luck.

Ricardo, What ever you do to your suspension should be done symetrically. If you have lengthened the "swing" of the wheel travel it will now react differently than the opposite side. It may me negligble (who knows)but it's not right. Play with it in order to correct your issue but in the end it'll have to check'd and adjusted properly. The best way to correct this is to have the offset changed
as mentioned above.

Agree ya need a place with proper alignment equipment to measure precisely what has to me adjusted. I'd find a real frame shop vice NTB or a tire place --- they tend to adjust tow in and that's about it. Remember your frame was cut in half, shortended 11" and rewelded back together using 2x4s" as the template --- so could be off there too. There is a camber nut that can be adjusted on the front suspention and if you have an adjustable front beam you may need caster shims (and longer bolts). You might want they on hand (~$10) before you take it in or ask them about them and if they might be needed. CIP1 should have the caster shims --- they look like a 2" aluminum C-shaped shim. See bottom of page at:

http://www.dansperformanceparts.com/buggy/susp/buggysusp%20front.htm

Hello Ignacio,

I'll get shot for this one, but here go's: Welcome to the help desk of the Crucified Metal Chassis (CMC) that your speedster is setting on.

That being said, you can try a few things that I have seen done to eliminate tire to body clearance issues. You can take the washers from under the pivot on the inboard end of the IRS trailing arms and put them back under the head of the bolt, this will only give you about an 1/8" to 3/16" more tire inset. You can have the inside of the brake drum bearing mating surface machined down about an 1/8", this will inset the drum/wheel assembly in as well. You can grind the inside lip of the fender up to about 3/8", this varies a lot with the glass thickness. Or my favorite, the broom stick approach.

Yea..., a broom stick. Cut a piece of broom stick about a 1/2" to 3/4" longer than the inside fender well to body clearance. Stick this in between the inside of the fender and the body a few inches off the back of the tire to force the fender out for more tire clearance..., that simple.

Of course I'd probably use a piece of 3/4" plywood and glass it in place to spread the body flex load at the area being forced out. Now don't go wild in doing this..., only use this to bow the back fender well out about 1/2" to 3/4". I've seen many spider cracks develope by bowing fiberglass and giving it some time and vibration. One other thing, after putting the stick in the fender well area and attaining your optimum tire clearance..., take a walk back about a hundred feet or so, and just like checking a girl out from the back end, make sure she's symmetrical.

My 2 cents, David

David,

You've used the fender flex? I would try it (just me) and I don't think it'll work (but if you say so). I would think fiberglass would spring back to its original position or when it's stretching
limits had been reached would let you know with an ugly &^*%%^& sound(cracking).

Quote> You've used the fender flex? I would try it (just me) and I don't think it'll work (but if you say so). I would think fiberglass would spring back to its original position or when it's stretching
limits had been reached would let you know with an ugly &^*%%^& sound(cracking).


Hey Bruce,

Yes I've used it in springing vw glass fenders out so they clear big tires. Fiberglass has a lot of memory and it well come right back, What I was saying was to leave the spacer In permanent. As to the cracking..., Yea a thick gelcoat well let you know it doesn't like you flexing it pretty quickly. But you should be able to bow the fender a 1/2" without it doing any damage. Remember the spacer doesn't go above the tire because the tire will eventfully contact it, it goes in back of the tire a couple of inches where the body comes back in to tuck around the corner of the car.

I'm not that brave anymore but if it works=great.