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Directional Flasher Help

Gordon NicholsGordon NicholsMassachusetts 1993 CMC Supporting Member
I am running a stock 1970 VW wiring system on my car, complete with the Hella 211 953 215C flasher unit, a box about 2" X 2 1/2" X 1" thick. The terminals are: 31, KBL, 49 and 49a and it is wired per the VW wiring diagram for 1970, along with the 1970 directional lever and emergency flasher switches. Separate directional bulbs both front and rear, just like a '70 VW, even use the same fast-on connectors.

Recently, it has been flashing the outside lights OK, but the indicator on the dash flashes only once or twice, then nothing after that. If I turn on the emergency flashers (again, stock VW flasher switch) the inside indicator flashes perfectly as long as the key is on, but the inside light goes out with the key off (the outside lights keep on flashing with key off). Checked all connections a couple of times and everything is tight and making contact.

So, I sent to Rocky Mountain for a "direct replacement" to that part number and got a Wagner 559 instead. Different shape, but same terminal designations, so I plugged it in and now everything outside still flashes OK, but the inside indicator never flashes on either directional or emergency UNTIL I turn off the key with the e-flashers on and THEN the outside AND inside all flash OK.

?????????????????????????!!

Anybody have any experience with this system? The original Hella flashes inside and outside with separate relays (I guess to help show if you have an outside bulb burnt out) while the Wagner flashes outside with a relay, and the inside via a transistor (again, I guess for the same purpose) but I don't know how it's reversed biased to detect a lost filament outside and then not flash the inside. BTW: the inside bulb is isolated from ground and has 12V one side and the "KBL" lead from the flasher on the other side.

Seems like the flasher expects to see "X" amount of current draw to the outside bulbs and, if any less, it doesn't fire the inside bulb. Since it was working OK, and since I'm essentially running the same bulbs as the original VW, I don't know what's going on.

Any help out there? I'm about ready to either (1.) rebuild the original Hella (unless I can find a direct replacement) or, (2.) re-design the whole thing around a three-wire flasher (American-style).

Thanks, Gordon
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Gordon NicholsGordon NicholsMassachusetts 1993 CMC Supporting Member
I am running a stock 1970 VW wiring system on my car, complete with the Hella 211 953 215C flasher unit, a box about 2" X 2 1/2" X 1" thick. The terminals are: 31, KBL, 49 and 49a and it is wired per the VW wiring diagram for 1970, along with the 1970 directional lever and emergency flasher switches. Separate directional bulbs both front and rear, just like a '70 VW, even use the same fast-on connectors.

Recently, it has been flashing the outside lights OK, but the indicator on the dash flashes only once or twice, then nothing after that. If I turn on the emergency flashers (again, stock VW flasher switch) the inside indicator flashes perfectly as long as the key is on, but the inside light goes out with the key off (the outside lights keep on flashing with key off). Checked all connections a couple of times and everything is tight and making contact.

So, I sent to Rocky Mountain for a "direct replacement" to that part number and got a Wagner 559 instead. Different shape, but same terminal designations, so I plugged it in and now everything outside still flashes OK, but the inside indicator never flashes on either directional or emergency UNTIL I turn off the key with the e-flashers on and THEN the outside AND inside all flash OK.

?????????????????????????!!

Anybody have any experience with this system? The original Hella flashes inside and outside with separate relays (I guess to help show if you have an outside bulb burnt out) while the Wagner flashes outside with a relay, and the inside via a transistor (again, I guess for the same purpose) but I don't know how it's reversed biased to detect a lost filament outside and then not flash the inside. BTW: the inside bulb is isolated from ground and has 12V one side and the "KBL" lead from the flasher on the other side.

Seems like the flasher expects to see "X" amount of current draw to the outside bulbs and, if any less, it doesn't fire the inside bulb. Since it was working OK, and since I'm essentially running the same bulbs as the original VW, I don't know what's going on.

Any help out there? I'm about ready to either (1.) rebuild the original Hella (unless I can find a direct replacement) or, (2.) re-design the whole thing around a three-wire flasher (American-style).

Thanks, Gordon
oldyeleroldyeler
This Is the one I hate. the polarity coming off the flasher lead to the light is backwards the ignition lead to the bulb will have to be changed to a ground or hot which ever it is not.

Working with the key off points to a needed ground when its on.

If I am correct this can be checked by hooking a test light to the flasher lead, . with a added fuse in the circut to protect the flasher.

Ground the test light to a metal suface with a 5 amp fuse in the circut, if it works in all modes you have your answer. Vw made a 2 pin plastic bulb socket what you can use to monify your light and add a ground. it fits right in the same incert but is insulated.

If this is not the solution, another contact may need to be switched, But Im not sure which so I will not suggest that.
Gordon NicholsGordon NicholsMassachusetts 1993 CMC Supporting Member
Barry: That's interesting, although it doesn't fully explain why it was working OK earlier with the original VW flasher in the circuit.

Never-the-less, it's worth playing with a little. The lamp socket already is the two contact type, to allow it to have 12V one one side and the flasher on the other (as the original VW system wants). It won't take much to try a fused, grounded lamp in that place (Heck, I can try that separate from the gauge to test the theory). What I really need to do is sit down and draw out the flasher circuit and figure out what it's doing and how they're sampling the current draw and why. Then I'll know how to fix this for good and can make recommendations to others who have similar wiring.

In the meantime, I removed the original VW flasher, took it apart,cleaned the contacts with emory cloth and found that the relay working the inside lamp was quite weak, and slightly out of adjustment on the wiper. Adjusted the wiper arm closer to the coil at rest and it now seems to be working OK.

I would still like to get the Wagner 559 flasher working before I resort to re-wiring the car to work with the CMC-style, 2-wire flasher, so I may try that this week, since I still have the seats out (I was installing tonneau snaps on the dash by drilling from the underside - not recommended, but it worked......that's how this all started). Buying a Greenhouse tomorrow (Spring is almost here) so the car may wait a few days......

I'll report whatever I find - who knows? The Wagner flasher may go up in smoke!!! (or it may end up in my spares kit!!)

Gordon
Gordon NicholsGordon NicholsMassachusetts 1993 CMC Supporting Member
Hi all....In the course of poking around trying to find out exactly how a flasher works (and especially in the 1970 VW context for the pan I'm using) I found this web site:

www.blueglue.com/users/bentlema/autos/vw/tech/elec/flasher.html

Not only has wiring schematics for flasher set-ups, but also explains how it all works AND how to hack between 2, 3 and 4 wire flashers for the various versions of VW wiring systems. I had to find this as I'm using much (but not all) of a stock 1970 VW wiring system, complete with their quirky, 4-wire flasher and remarkably wire-laden emergency flasher switches, both of which are shown on Blueglue.

Now I'm off to find out about Wiper assemblies!!

gn

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