Disc Brake Install - Ball Joint Replacement

The Empi disc brakes on my car have been bothering me for some time now. they aren't functioning correctly so I have decided to replace them with a set of discs from Airkewld.

While I have the front end apart ill be working on some suspension components. I have had movement at the drivers side front wheel for a couple months now. I eliminated the possibility of it being a wheel bearing after pulling the dust cap and adjusting the spindle nut. So, ball joint or tie rod ends. I have never broken down the front end to this extent. It is all new to me. Anything I should be aware of?

I took a couple pics of the condition of the wheel bearings when i pulled the dust caps. Does everything look normal? It certainly wasn't this greasy when the bearings were installed.

I have removed the spindles form the ball joints. How does one know if the ball joints are bad? On the drivers side upper, the threaded bit will re-center itself after i move it around and let go. The bottom one does not do that. I move it to one side or the other and it just stays in that position. The rubber boot on both driver and passenger side lower ball joints seems to have come off. Is this an indication they have failed?

Also, how parallel do the trailing arms need to be? I am wondering of I have a little adjustment to do on the upper or lower beam.

if you do replace the ball joint - pull the trailing arm out, and get it pressed in by someone who has done it before. they go in any direction, but only work in one axis (little notch)

FYI - your wheel bearings can still be toast even if the nut is tight

suspension parts for a pan chassis is super cheap. new wheel bearings (quality ones) will only set you back ~$40 for inner/outer on both sides

.....you don't want the wheel bearing nut tight, that will quickly gawl the bearing. You do want to seat the bearing, then back off to allowing about .003 play. ~Alan

Paul, the only real advice I can give you is that the front trailing arms are supposed to work against you as you try to pull them up and back, parallel to the face of the wheel and brake assembly.
That is to say, they should smoothly pull up and back, no clunks, no jumps and no easy pull. The point of the assembly is to tuck the wheel up and back when it hits a bump, and return it quickly with the assistance of the shock.
If any of those parts are out of alignment, like, say because you mashed into a Baltimore pothole and something mechanical didn't like it, the symptom will be a clunk or an interruption in that travel line.
If the trailing arms aren't parallel to each other, you will damage the entire assembly in small ways. Ultimately, the ball joints and tie rods, which keep the assembly from traveling inward or breaking that plane to the rear of the car, will go.
The ballpark on the tie-rod assembly can be done by measuring the front edge of one tire relative to the other front tire, and likewise the rear edges of the fronts. They should be about the same distance apart, indicating the tires are both tracking the same.
Look for uneven tread wear as an early indicator.

Nice video Paul

Re the EMPI calipers ; is that much play normal/average , or sloppy/unsafe ?

Paul, I put in a set of Airkewld brakes last year. Same Wilwood calipers, but mine was set up for a Porsche wheel pattern. Here's a few pointers from my install:
1. I had some trouble installing the races - VERY tight fit. I ended up heating each rotor to expand it slightly, but I still had to use considerable force to get the race in place. You'll probably need a 'drift' of some type - maybe an old socket with the same diameter as the race.
2. When you install the caliper brackets you may have to do multiple fits, using different thickness washers, to get the rotor centered in the caliper. For me, one side was fairly easy, but the other side was a bit of a pain.
3. I found the heli-coiled threads in the aluminum caliper brackets to be on the fragile side. I managed to pull one of them out on the install.
While doing the brakes I ended up replacing all the ball joints and tie rods. I also pulled the steering box and had it serviced.

Besides heating the rotors a bit, throw the races in the freezer over night before the install. May go together easier.

~WB

WB, I did that too.

Regarding play int he front end, and considering something other than bearings or the tie rods, you may want to check and see how much play is in the control arm itself. A busted or worn inner micarta bushing will translate to quite a bit of movement at the wheel, and you almost need the wheel in place to have enough leverage to make it move. Easy way to check (takes 2 ppl) is to bridge your finger over the point where the control arm slides into the front beam and have someone grab the wheel at the top and bottom, pushing in on the top while pulling out on the bottom and vice-versa. If you can feel movement at the control arm/front beam, that is a sure sign of a bad inner micarta bushing. Cheap part (under $10) but can be a PITA to change.

Carey,

I appreciate the response. The lower ball joint was thrashed on the driver side. I did notice as I was re-assembling everything a noise when moving the upper control arm. it is a very slight knock. I researched replacing those innerbearings last night ont he samba (didnt see your post), looks to be a serious PITA. People are fabricating tools just to get everything out, then making more to reinstall everything.

I may just deal for now.

Dave, if I were In The market for a mountain bike with discs, and I could wobble the caliper around that much... Id walk away from it. This is a car i put a good 12k on a year. I have never seen calipers with that kind of movement. I don't feel safe with them.

Ron, great advice. I don't gave a torch. Will definately throw the races in the freezer per Bills suggestion. I'll head to the hardware store this evening and grab several different thickness of washers. I have time, airkewld is 2 day airing some new inner bearings. I have older spindles than I was told.

I didn't use a torch-I put rotors in the oven.

Don't ya wife just LOVE it when you do that??

"WHAT THE HELL IS THIS...THIS...CAR THING DOING IN MY OVEN!!!!

What temp do you cook rotors at and for how long?

300-350F for 30 minutes or so.

Use welding gloves or nomex (cooks) gloves while handling them and don't waste any time between the kitchen and the garage.

And BE CAREFUL running around with them - They'll stay HOT for quite a while!

Like Ron, I always use a suitably-sized socket to evenly guide the races in with. I gave up tapping them in with a hammer eons ago and have used a hydraulic press for years. Much more controlled and even and I never distort a race. Not saying that you can't get them in properly by gently tapping with a hammer on a socket.....I just don't do it that way.

gn

Hydraulic press is the way to go.
As for as using the oven to heat up car parts - I waited until she was out shopping. :-)

Ive boxed up the rotors, will be headed to a shop tomorrow to have the races pressed in. I don't have the energy to screw around with it myself.

Good man.

You'll be happy you're getting them pressed.

At least you'll know for sure that they're not crooked.

Why doesn't anyone give a shit anymore? I take the rotors/hub assembly in and ask that the races be pressed in... Was told he could do it with a hammer. I explained I tried with a hammer, tried freezing the races... its just too tight a tolerance and I dont want to risk it. I repeated myself, asked If they could be pressed in and was told yes. I get a call and head over to pick them up. He tried to beat one in with a hammer anyway. Beat up the lip of the hub (aluminum). He explained it really doesn't matter and won't affect anything. I was also told I was sold cheap bearings... and probably paid too much and that there is no need for them to be THAT tight. That the product I bought is bad. He also gouged the face of both pieces in several places. I pointed it out, he said he did not do it. $1100 dollars, absolutely gorgeous pieces of hardware out of the box only to be gauled and scratched up within a matter of hours. And he still wants $40.00

What is wrong with people.

The mechanic broke a race and gave up. I went and bought something to debur the hub an a 3 lb. Hammer, along with a new race. Cleaned everything up and pounded it in just fine. Back in business. Just wanted to clarify there is nothing wrong with the brake kit. Its the shops that just don't like to put forth the extra effort.

Paul, did you go with the standard spindles?

Did you also use that three pound hammer on that so-called "machinest"??

Ron, Im using stock spindles. Gordon, I should of at least walked back with it in my hand and shown him how it was done.

I put everything together last night and now have a problem with tight steering. The wheel will not track back straight after making a turn.

Things replaced:

Master Cylinder
All 4 Ball Joints
Steering damper
Clutch Pedal Hook
brakes/calipers

The steering is so tight I have to move the wheels using the steering wheel when the front end is in the air. hmmmmm.

Ron, Did you have trouble putting on the bearing dust caps? That new 3 lb hammer isn't even doing the job.

Im going to put the front end on an alignment rack this afternoon. I am hoping this will help the tracking problem.

Those damn dust caps! One of mine fit on (and stayed on) without too much difficulty. The other one would not fit on, no matter how much force I used. I ended up using a utility knife and cutting away some of the outer diameter of the dust cap, where it fits into the back of the rotor.

Im talking about different dustcaps, althought the ones on the back were a little tight. Im wondering if the hubs were deforemd when the "mechanic" pressed in the races. Wither way, Pete from Airkewld is sending me driver and passenger rotor/hub asseblies... No Charge. I would not hesitate to order anything else from him. His customer service is top notch.

I see the problem ....you need a bigger hammer~

if a 4 lb. hammer doesnt do the job....

here is a close up of the passenger side wheel as i spin it. take a look at the metal surrounding the bearing.

how much did that setup set up back?

Should there be a 'you' in there?

oh ya - my typing got ahead of me

Prices start at $675. Wilwoods cost more.
http://store.airkewld.com/e-shop-online/brakes/beetle-and-ghia/bad-series-type-1-front-disc-brake-kit.html

Paul,

I have several sets of Pete's disc brakes on cars, including some in the shop now, and the dust caps go on tight, but not like in your video. I hate to say it, but the material around the bearings on that hat is foobared...
You have any local machine shops that could chuck it up on the lathe and straighten out the OD?

Carey,

I had asked Pete the very same, if I should dissasemble the hubs and take them to a machine shop. His repsonse was "you shouldnt have to". As we speak a new set of hubs is being mailed to me. I can only imagine you two get along very well. You both seem to have a very old world way of running a business. Its personal with you two, and you see that things are right and people are happy. I am a fan. We should try and get Pete up to Carlisle next year.

Paul, please let me know on the PM which shop that was that buggered 'em up.

Carey,

If you would, if you get a moment, please give me a call with reference to Airkewld brakes. I just want to know if the things you find dificult are the same things I am struggling with.

On another note, the ball joint replacement I completed did not take. The car will not track back to center. I had the front end aligned hoping to eliminate the problem. It didnt. I have put close to 1800 miles with hopes the ball joints were just a little stiff and would loosen up. They didnt. After much research I have discovered ball joints are coming in a range of diamaters these days. Get one too large and press it in... the internals will be crushed and the ball joint is useless. Well, it holds the spindle onto the trailing arms but is hell on your handling. Just passing the info along.