Disgrunted speedster buyer on ebay

Read this.... this speedster buyer really is pissed off and even placed an auction at his cost just to get the word out !

Item number: 250018858808

It is odd that I see positive feedback from some people about Automotive Legends, yet other people rant about poor build quality. Aren't they just reselling Vintages?

angela

who makes the speedster for automotive legends?

Automotive legends Price List!!!!!!

Headlight Spears None Red Black Other $781.25
Hood Color None Red Black Ivory $390.63
Wheel Color Default Color - Chrome Silver Grey Body Color $450.00

*$683.59 additional for silver and other metallic paint colors

Brakes
Drum Brakes std

4 Bolt Front Disc Brakes $976.56

4 Bolt Rear Disc Brakes $1,074.22

5 Bolt Front Disc Brakes $1,318.36

5 Bolt Rear Disc Brakes $1,103.52


Engine
1915cc (105 hp) $3,936.88

1600cc (90 hp) Dual Carbs $3,552.86

1600cc (67 hp) $3,229.88

Engine Oil Cooler $793.50


Transmission
4 Speed Transmission $756.25

Sport Transmission 3:88 $831.88


Tires
185-65R15 Set of 4 std

185-65R15 Spare & Jack Kit $322.07

Spare Tire Cover $117.19


Hubcaps Set of 4
Moon Hubcaps std

Rims
4 Bolt Chrome Wheel Set of 4 std

4 Bolt Match Painted Wheel Set of 4 $390.63

4 Bolt Silver Painted Wheel Set $351.56

5 Bolt 15x4.5 Front Set $250.00

5 Bolt 15x5.5 Rear Set $250.00

5 Bolt 15x4.5 Spare $214.84

Electrical
Push Button Starter $218.75
Halogen Head Lights $146.48

GT Style Instrument Set $673.83

50s Style Turn Signal Switch $302.73
Hella Fog Light Kit Set of 2 $878.91

Interior
Tonneau Cockpit Cover None Black Tan Other $878.91

Leather w/ German Carpet Upgrade $4,501.00

German Carpet Upgrade $1,953.13

Vinyl Upholstery w/Carpeting std

Simpson Seat Belts Set $546.68

3 Point Seat Belts Set $263.67

Standard Seat Belts std

NARDI Wood Steering Wheel std

Banjo Style Steering Wheel $1,171.88

Chrome Dash Grab Handle $121.09

Aluminum racing pedal assembly $378.91

CoCo Mats $292.97

Rear Head Wind Screen $380.86

Air-conditioning $2,574.28


Body
Leather Fuel Tank Lid Strap Set None Black Tan $285.16

Chrome Speedster style Drivers mirror std

Chrome Speedster style mirror, right $136.72

GT Style racing side mirror, left $365.23

GT Style racing side mirror, right $365.23

Chrome Head Rest Loop, left $312.50

Chrome Head Rest Loop, right $312.50

Orignal Style Center Fuel Tank Filler $439.45

Fluted Head Light Lenses $175.78

50's Style head light grills $445.31

GT Engine Deck Lid $634.77

Nerf Bar Bumper Set Front and Rear $732.42

Chrome Luggage Rack $341.80


Suspension
Koni Shocks Set $578.13

Front Sway Bar $292.97

Rear Sway Bar $371.09


Sounds
CD AM-FM Stereo $683.59

Premium-Sound System CD AM-FM $1,554.55






Internet Order Price $19,995
MSRP $21,296.00
Destination Charge $350
Options $
Grand Total $
Est. Monthly Payment $
*Pricing may change without notice

Angela,

Visiting Automotive Legends web site is an eye opener. Price out a "Vintage" Speedster with a 1915cc, wide 5 discs, tires to match, leather and squareweave, oil cooler with a 1915cc, sways, konis, tonneau, vertical headlight grilles, top option stereo, 3:88, right side mirror, and a few other "options" and you will find that their price, minus tax and delivery exceeds 40 grand. The one I listed came to $44,900+ (no a/c). Considering Intermeccanica's base for a Speedster is around $33-34,000..... well, gee what a rip off Automotive Legends appears to be!

The guy (e-bayer) didn't do his homework. The buyer simply had to google up Speedsters and VS's site would have come up and the outrageous options mark-up would have been obvious. His bad.

Oh, and guess what? A 4 speed transmission is an OPTION at automotive legends. They charge over $700 for the tranny that came in the car from VS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can hear the gallop and see the dust trail of Jesse James....it's people like this that make the replicar industry a black eye. I've referred that particular buyer to kit car advocate Curt Scott www.kitcar.com who shut CMC down....A.L. are are off their rocker as more and more potential speedster buyers find the speedster sites and get the real information they need.A.L will end up being a sinking ship.

A 4 speed is an option for this car??? I wonder what the "base transaxle" is for these guys!!!!!

Maybe none?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%2F250018858808_W0QQfromZR40QQfviZ1&rd=1&item=250018858808

Not bad. His auction has gotten 310 page hits in only 20 hours. I see that 2 from this website have contacted him. It loks like Automotive Legends is about to get seriously smacked. It appears they may have messed with the wrong guy, but sometimes people run out of steam and anger. We'll see. I wish him luck.

$175 for fluted lens? If they are German NOS, well okay. But the majority I see out there are aftermarket. Like mine. Mine were $12 a pair....

You know by the time you buy that fully optioned, you could have a pretty darn nice IM.

angela

I like the $1200 steering wheel & the $400 headlight covers!

Man, they must be Canadian dollars! Now I know where Paris Hilton got here Black Speedster!

Was hoping the guy would say what his problems were. $1k isn't really alot if you're having someone else do the work. I mean if he was complaining about little ripples in the fiberglass, squeaks/rattle, or air infiltration. You buy an $800k house and there are a lot of things that have to be fixed --- same with a "custom" built, limited production car. Wonder what the warranty was advertised to be --- seems alot of custom stuff comes pretty much "as is" (like TIV engines from respected builders) and its only throught mutual respect and cajoling that problems are rectified.

Come on now...they can't be all that bad if these are the same guys:

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/11/09/147808.html

Perhaps the disgruntled Ebayer was not as famous as the other folks mentioned in the article and therefore did not receive the royal treatment. Or maybe A.L. were out doing good things in some third world country and were unable to respond to his problems.

Bottom line...The public in general can be a genuine pita.. However, do listen to the customer's concerns as they are your bread and butter, have a proven quality control program in place no matter how big or small your business, this alone can eliminate most product and customer woes. When things go afoul and they do, step up and do the right thing repairing & replacing what ever is needs to be done.
Your customer is your most important product and valuable asset you will have.
I'm the little guy who as a hobby, builds and restos as a hobby occasionally doing so for others, net small pocket change compared to the big guys but always... take care of the "customer" as they will make or break your name. Most importantly for conscience and peace of mind.

Update:
I decided to pen a note off to "Legends" last night on behalf of the speedster owner that had unresolved woes with that company, this the response. I'll keep in touch with the car owner and post any progress or lack of a resolution.

___________________________________________________________________

Alan,

I was not aware of this. I personaly have recently taken over the sales for this company and I am unaware of any current problems with past clients. I will investigate this matter and solve any problems that there might be. I appreciate your information. We stand behind our work as well and go over and beyond the call of duty for our customers.

Best Regards,

Michael A. Biagini
Automotive Legends
(310) 456-1033

I was wondering:

1. If Automotive Legends is unaware of any problems, then who has this guy been talking to?

2. Isn't this a Vintage Speedster? Shouldn't Vintage be involved?

Could it be that the purchaser pays $10k-$15k over retail to buy it from Automotive Legends, and loses the warranty with the original Manufacturer?

Oh, and by the way:
I have a 2004 VS, and I have been by Automotive Legends in Malibu.
They had a $38k Speedster on the floor.
They had a fix for the "Can't adjust the right RR mirror on the fender"; They stuck a stick-on convex mirror from Pep Boys. It looked like hell.
I didn't see that option on the price list.

Lester

He was talking with a "Steve" from "AL" who, what or where he went ....who knows.

I believe that "VS" sells to "AL" hence they are out of the loop.
_________________________

Here's my thoughts on this stink, in addition to the woes of a speedster owner there are at least two other wide bodies being auctioned on eBay that have the exact high bids with......similar bidders. Alas, one just happens to be a " Steve" and the other from France.

Alan....when I try to pull this item # on e-bay it doesn't come up...I want to be able to check it out...thanks

It has been pulled from ebay, it was a "listing" of the speedster owner's car not as an actual auction but, to make other's aware of his vendor problems.

Alan - Did you ever get a list of the problems he purported to have? Some folks seem to look a even new replicas and expect it to be like a new mass produced car.

There were a number of mechanical items that were serious including a steering shaft the came apart from the steering box rag joint while being driven! The guy has valid issues to say the least.

AL, having been alerted to the auction, probably had eBay pull it.

Automotive Legends has every right in the world to buy a product and sell it for a profit. The company did not hide that Vintage was the source of their cars, yet people still purchased them. This particular ebay client that posted the add against Automotive Legends did infact have a right to be upset, yet this was an issue that the manufacturer was responsible for NOT automotive legends. I personally know for a fact that automotive legends does have many plus sides. They offer great customer service and definitly go wayyyyyy out of their way when their customers require it. In reference to this ebay add there are always two sides to the story. This guy is a liar, and completly misrepresented his situation concerning automotive legends. I know this because the sales manager is my brother and he is very good with all of his clients in this buisness and in previous jobs he has had. I just wish he was here to defend his company from ignorant slobs that tend to jump to conclusions. I would expect automotive legends to be around for quite a while and keep an eye out to expect great things from them.

Nick

There is obviously a problem with the car; what motivation would someone have for voicing their concerns if there wasn't some sort of reason for it? I have a business of my own and as I always say "The customer isn't always right but the customer always gets what they want." I have had customers that have had experiences that they felt were not up to standard and my policy is always to do what ever it takes to make them happy. In all my years I've never had a customer make something up for no reason, they may exaggerate the circumstance but the reality is if my customer isn't happy then my customer isn't happy and no one wins. I say always make it right no matter what!

Nick, I commend you on your honesty, telling us that Michael A. Biagini is your brother. However, the prevailing view on this website is to encourage potential buyers of Speedsters to buy directly from the manufacturer. There have been several cases where buyers have had very bad experiences buying from resellers. When problems arise with the product, a serious finger-pointing contest is usually the result and the buyer often winds up being the one out of pocket, sometimes for some serious change.

The thread was initiated by somebody that I don't know even casually, but I don't think that referring to him as an "ignorant slob" bodes well for the reputation of Automotive Legends. For my part, I have no regard for you or your rude comment.

Take a hike.
Hoss

What this paticular "ignorant slob" did was do my homework (you Mr Nick obviously have not) I contacted the speedster owner that had posted the ad on ebay, I discussed the details of his "AL" woes.....I did so before posting the initial post here.
I contacted AL and received a polite and professional reply from a Mr. Michael Biagini. He went on to state that he recently took over sales and would investigate and resolve customer(s) past problem(s).
( See previous post herein)
I commend Michael's intentions and hope that as the AL's representative he will follow through and resolve the complaints.
The speedster owner that posted on ebay lost complete control of the car due to bolts falling out of steering shaft rag joint at the steering box that could have resulted serious injury or worse to himself or others. He had the car towed to a certified facility, upon a detailed inspection they found a good number of unsafe mechanical issues.
Mr. Nick, you are less than correct in assuming that it is the manufacture's responsbility and not AL's to resolve these issues.
What is fact is that the final point of sale venue is where and who is the responsible party to certify a vehicle is a safe and road worthy vehicle, hence the ball was dropped on many occassions and with multiple customers, some which have previously posted on the SOC.
You ramble on saying that your brother is Michael Biagina and come across as being personaly offended... don't get your shorts in bunch Mr. Nick but best to re-read the previous post that includes your brother Michael's email to me, stating that he ...recently... took over.
The speedster customers complaints go back a year, realize that he was dealing with others at "AL" without success. Hence you now know the facts.
I believe it has been already said and said well but bears repeating...... "Take a Hike"

Ok,

I guess I am the SLOB...that posted the ad on E-bay. First off I just want to say that I am not new to the world of mechanics. I am a mechanics son. My father owned an auto repair shop and custom car shop for over 40 years. He is 79 years old and is still working and restoring cars..we are going to restore a 69 Chevelle in the near future for a friend. I myself have a 72 Nova SS that "I" built from the ground up..as a matter of fact it just won the Peoples choice award today at the California Nova Mini Nats...as it has for a total of 4 years..My father, brother and myself...just finished a 39 Chevy Hot Rod for about 50,000.00..not including "our labor" We turned every bolt from bow to stern as well as building the motor..same with my Nova that dynoed at 400hp. We have also built numerous 56-57 p/u, 49 and 54 plymouth custom deluxe and Savoy, Custom Mustangs, Camaro's, Tri five chevy's, 64 Chevy p/u and the list goes on. Not counting the many custom cars that I have helped friends turn wrenches on and I am a memeber of countless car clubs and national organizations. So, I have been around cars all my life.....I am currently gettig ready to do a full frame off on a 67 Nova...Just wanted to give you a little back ground on me and my family so you know that I at least have turned a wrench in my time.

First off, I take offense to the comments about me...but I am a big boy..I can handle it. As for nobody knowing about my past issues at Automotive legends ..that is un true...I have the phone records that show the 20+ phone calls. I even talked to the guy "that knows nothing of a cutomer having problems" more times then I can count. As for Mike...I talked to him...he sold me the car...I even met him at the store when i was in L.A. for Fire Dept. Training. As for the issues I am having I will explain them. First off...I have been in the Fire Service for 17 years and I am a Captain at Sacramento area Fire Dept. So..Safety to me is job one..since my life and job revolves around keeping the public safe....continued

As for the problems with my car...I had a motor mount break soon after I got the car...automotive legends...paid to have it fixed. Then I had a problem with the A/C...two of the lines did not have O'Rings and the high pressure line was leaking from the crimp in the hose where it attaches to the condensor under the car...the line from one condensor to the the second condensor was also leaking. The system was dyed at a local 5star chrysler dealership and recharged to find the leaks...well...we found them. The high pressure line had to be removed...NO EASY TASK..as it runs through the body to the underside of the car. It took a LONG time just to remove the line. The line then had to be taken to an outside vendor to be re-crimped...then re-istalled and then filled with freon...all this takes "LABOR" to do. The job was for ex amount of dollars...I was told by AL that it was not warrantied..."WHAT" ...I have e-mails from "MIKE" that said that the year warranty was for "DEFECTS" and workmanship..my friends...my problem was a "Defective" line and poor craftsman ship. The e-mails with "mike" were corrispondents that we had before I bought the vehicle...I have also been in vehicle sales through a dealership "I have a sales license" to sell cars....so I knew what questions to ask before I bought the car..Anyway..I think Mike remembers 3 firefighters coming into the store to talk about my car being built...ok..so..I was told that I did not follow protocol for the A/C repairs...I needed to fax an estimate for approval...Now how am I supposed to know this if nobody returns my phone calls..second the car was at the dealership for a week taking up a stall (they would not leave it outside because it was to nice) and I did not want to drive the car and possibly mess up the whole A/C system..So, I told them to do the work(after a week of sitting at the dealership) and I would deal with automotive legends. The sales manager from the dealership even called them with no return phone calls...anyway..the car was fixed and I was told I was shit out of luck on the bill...So I paid the bill out of my pocket. The owner of AL and I talked and came up with a deal on the bill....we would split it..do to the fact that I did not go through the proper procedure that I was un aware of until it was already fixed after a week of trying to get approval....and the fact that AL admitted that they should have returned my phone calls..that was back in May...I still have yet to receive a check per our agreement.

Well, the A/C dumped again...the line was leaking again but at the other end this time...and we found a small leak in one of the condensors. Again..I understand that Stuff Happens..I have been around cars enough to know that you can get a brand new part out of the box and it can be messed up...I had a 600.00 custom radiator for my nova leak right out of the box..but guess what...I called the company and they shipped me a new one the same day and had UPS come by my house and pick up the "defective" one..that is customer service and that is what I am used to dealing with when it comes to cars and parts. So... as I am going to take the car back to the dealership "again" to get the A/C fixed..the dealership said that "They" were going to eat the labor on removing the line again because the were supposed to repair it and they did not do a good enough job...imagine that...they are going to eat the labor...that is customer service and standing by there work... But the condensor would have to be replaced and they were not liable for that..I also had a problem..that I fixed myself..the A/C line that goes in front of the car to the unit under the dash was running through all the steering "stuff" It was actually rubbing the steering knuckle and almost rubbed a hole through the AC line. I had to pull it away from the steering componest and Lock tie it to the body.

It is true..there are two sides to every story and I think that the owner of AL would agree with what I have posted. I was raised by my parnents to have honor, care for my fellow person, give everyone the benefit of the doubt and that my word will always be as strong as oak....I expect to be treated like I treat people. In closing...AL is Standing by there product and the misunderstandings are being taken care of.

Paul Fullerton

Sorry,

But I re-read that post for NICK and he is full of crap. I am not a LIAR...and second I had called them to many times to count..I talked to Mike, a guy with an Italian accent, the owners wife, the owner, as well as the lady in charge of vehicle registration....Nick should shut his yapper...his ignorance and not having the facts...does not help AL or the situation. My problems are SAFETY issues and affected members of my family. It is insulting that somebody who is not involved and does not know the facts will call people liars and Slobs. I tell you what...I have yet to have anybody have the nerve to say those insults to my face...And a little history lesson on how businesses work...if a product is being sold and represented by a company..then that company is the FIRST line of contact when you have a problem...if you get a bad TV at Wal-mart...do you take it back to Wal-mart or do you take it back to Japan and drop it off at Sony's doorstep. If it is a SAFETY issue with a product...then the company that you purchased it from gets involved and notifies the MAKER of the product to get the issue resolved. When your dodge magnum breaks...you take it to the DEALER and they DEAL with DODGE the manufacuter...It would be a long drive to Detroit..to take your broken car back....so My porsche breaks..I deal with the Dealer..AL and they in turn deal with the Manufacturer...that is what is happening now with my situation...How dare you insult my feelings and my situation involving my family. I would love to have your brother..."Mike" say that he has NEVER talked to me on the phone about my many issues...

I just had to put in my two cents...

The day that I was going to take the car in for the A/C..my wife was going to take my 7 year old to his first day of school in the porsche..HE just loves that car...anyway..en-route to the school my wife lost control of the steering. She came home and was totally upset and scared...I said let me go take a look at it....I noticed that I could grab the steering wheel and pull it to me about 2 inches and when I did..you could turn the wheel and the wheels would not move..so I thought that either the steering spline in the shaft broke...or the steering knuckle came loose at the tie rods...As long as I pushed the steering wheel back in..the steering was fine...So I called the dealership and told them I was bringing the car in for the A/C and a steering problem...I limped the car to the dealership taking the side streets at about 5 miles per hour..Being towed behind my truck..LOL...

The dealership found a tie rod loose and the bolts on the steering knuckle were backed all the way off and ready to come loose...THANK GOD That did not happen with my wife and kid in the car. The steering shaft bolts were standard bolts...with no locking washer, loc-tite, crown bolt, self locking aircraft bolts...the were just regular bolts...that is a NO NO when it comes to steering. When we built the 39 we used self locking crown bolts, with a lock washer, loc-tite as well as a cotter key...we always OVER KILL steering in custom cars. When I saw that...the anger raged as I pictured my wife and kid crashing...bare in mind that being a firefighter...I have visions in my head of what happens to people in car crashes being a first responder. As a matter of fact I had a Fatality from 2 weeks ago fresh in my head...the same call had 1 patient life flighted and two by ground ambulance to UC Davis Medical center...so I was a little pissed and emotionally upset about the situation. I am friends with a California Highway partol Regional commander and the car will be inspected by a commercial CHP inspector and everything will be documented for my protection...as well as the dealership.

That is why I posted on Ebay...Since then I have been in contact with many concerned spyder and speedster builders. I have been in contact with the owner of AL and they are going above and beyond. They are picking up the car and hauling it back to Malibu...they are going to do an inspection of the vehicle with a fine tooth comb. I am assured by the owner of AL that this will be taken care of. He was very sincere with this situation as well as my past situations. The A/C is going to be fixed too. I am happy that this is going to be taken care of. The owner of Vintage speedster was also very concerned...so I am told. The owner was very upset over the situation and apologized for the past misunderstnadings. I love the car and I am glad that they are going to fix it...because I do not trust the car as it sits. I instructed the dealership to just tighten up the steering shaft and leave everthing alone...per AL request...so that they can install the proper bolts and re-tourque the whole front end as well as all other parts on the vehicle.


As for the rude comments...If This was back during my college fooball days..when I was a little rowdy..I would have given "Nick" a rap on the beak for his comments...As far as being a SLOB...My 5-days a week in the gym...and being an ex-athlete...I am far from a slob. I may have handled the situation wrong with my e-bay post...but when it affects your family as well as the fact that I have first hand knowledge of how horrible vehicle accident scenes can be...I got a little emotional. I truly feel that if I would have just given AL a call they would have handled the situation..but based on the history of NO ACTION, UnKept Promises and no return phone calls...I just gave up on the system that was not working. I took matters into my own hands... I had become friends with the owner of AL during my purchase...and his recent comments and phone converstations has renewed my friendship...but it is with caution...action, kept promises, honesty and being a MAN...makes a friend in my book...I will keep you all updated on my progress...and I will give AL thanks when thanks is do.

I feel that based on my mechanical upbringing and background...that I have done my homework and I know what I am talking about when it comes to my issues. My brother has a motto that he says in his very successful automotive restoration business.....that he will never trip over dollars to pick up pennies....I feel that ALL businesses that follow that Motto will be a very successfull business. I would like to thank the builders that listened to my issues and pushed me in the right direction. I would also like to thank the owner of AL for his sincere comments about my wife and the whole situation and for taking immediate action. As for e-bay....I pulled the ad...becuase the problem was being taken care of. So far AL is showing that they really do care about there customers and is moving forward with this incident. I still have faith in AL...and as far as the cars go..I am happy with the car in every other aspect...

I have never dealt with these guys, but i always feel sorry for any vendor that gets a hold of someone that can't be pleased!!

In this industry there are many, many of those "People" that couldn't be pleased with a night in the sack with their favorite movie star...

There is always the possibility that any one complaining is one of those guys.

I have been lucky, my system filters most of them out by making things difficult in the beginning, if they are a whiner I want to know it before I get a single dollar from them!

This topic is NOT about someone NOT being pleased...it is about SAFETY!!!and how the situation was handled!! Iam appalled by some of the comments that I have read....Nick, maybe your trying to stick up for the place that your brother works at but it was very black and white situation, and it was NOT your place to slander Paul the way you did...an apology is very much in order.

So what are you saying Jake.....no customer service from you either?

It sounds like Paul has a legal issue here with that car, I would be contacting an attorney to see what the lemon laws are and what his options are.....these people should be put in their place if you ask me.

I think what Jake was saying is that He(capitalization intended) likes to build and sell exotic engines for big money and doesn't want to be hassled by a customer if it doesn't work right. Or did I read that wrong?

Luke, I agree with you, I think that's what Jake "meant."

Unfortunately, what was on my mind was the assembly on the rag joint being done so poorly that the steering column basically fell apart. Then Jake's post says et at - some people just can't be pleased...he's glad he can weed such customers out...etc. I'd like to give Jake maximum benefit of the doubt based on the way he operates his business and just assume (usually a bad thing) that Jake was on a different thought track when he made his post than I was when I read his post. Jake is commenting on difficult customers in general and I believe he was thinking on that track. Whereas I was thinking about such poor assembly that the steering falls apart and my child and I get killed driving the car. Very different perspectives based on who is thinking what when they read this post.

It is not overly picky to expect the steering column to stay in one piece while you drive the car. Seriously.

angela

I have zero experience building cars and I'm many times better off letting people who know what they are doing work on them for me. I like tinkering, but as my builder could attest to, many times my tinkering causes the problem that he later has to figure out....LOL.

If I had all of the car building experience and knowledge described above, I would think the first thing I would do on a custom built car is a full "nut and bolt". I understand that you would like to think you wouldn't find anything, but with all of the experience (as a first responder) of seeing what can happen in these terrible car accidents, I'm surprised you didn't do so.

Anyone buying a custom built car should take this story and realize that even if you don't know diddly about cars, most of you have the ability to look over the car completely and see if anything is a potential problem.

See something and don't know if it is right or not, then call your builder and ask, or take it to a mechanic and have them check it over.