Well Steve; you're a very humble guy; you talk about having no experience with building cars, etc. yet you deal with safety mechanical inspections on a daily basis as part of being an airplane pilot. In my book that alone makes you an authority on this subject and your comments are indeed very valuable.
Steve,
In all honesty I really did not think I had to double check the work for the amount of money I paid. With the amount of cars this company has built I again did not think I had to double check the work. I guess I expected cars that are custom built would be built with care...Like I build one...you check and double check the bolts and then you mark the bolt or nut with a dab of paint...that way you can just look at it and know you did it. That is a lot of work to check every bolt on a car...especially when you did not assemble it. I mean..do you double check every bolt when you by a used car or even a brand new car from the big three...no you do not...There is a lot more care or there should be a lot more tender love and care in a custom built car..why because you mess up a car you can't recover...most sales are by word of mouth..not like the big car dealers incentives and TV commercials.
I agree with my back ground...I could have checked every bolt on the car after I pulled it into my garage...I drove it from Malibu to Sacramento..with out even a bump! ...So yes I could have checked every inch of there work...but as a human..you assume that when you pay that amount of money for a car from an "Experienced builder" you would think that you would not have to worry....I mean...I did a lot of homework before I bought the car and I never read on post about safety issues. Again, I assumed that the custom car would be built with the same TLC that Myself and my family uses. Lesson learned..but that does not excuse the fact that it happened...is never should have happened.
Paul
In all honesty I really did not think I had to double check the work for the amount of money I paid. With the amount of cars this company has built I again did not think I had to double check the work. I guess I expected cars that are custom built would be built with care...Like I build one...you check and double check the bolts and then you mark the bolt or nut with a dab of paint...that way you can just look at it and know you did it. That is a lot of work to check every bolt on a car...especially when you did not assemble it. I mean..do you double check every bolt when you by a used car or even a brand new car from the big three...no you do not...There is a lot more care or there should be a lot more tender love and care in a custom built car..why because you mess up a car you can't recover...most sales are by word of mouth..not like the big car dealers incentives and TV commercials.
I agree with my back ground...I could have checked every bolt on the car after I pulled it into my garage...I drove it from Malibu to Sacramento..with out even a bump! ...So yes I could have checked every inch of there work...but as a human..you assume that when you pay that amount of money for a car from an "Experienced builder" you would think that you would not have to worry....I mean...I did a lot of homework before I bought the car and I never read on post about safety issues. Again, I assumed that the custom car would be built with the same TLC that Myself and my family uses. Lesson learned..but that does not excuse the fact that it happened...is never should have happened.
Paul
That is also why I am not going to bad mouth automotive legends or Vintage speedster..because I know that shit happens. These cars are built by humans and humans make mistakes...that is why I am in the business that I am in. I also understand from building cars that anything can happen...parts can break...ect...I also understand that any of a hundred reasons could have caused the wrong bolts to be installed...and bolts to loosen up....a new guy helping out...or just a plane old Brain Fart...it is still a very BIG deal that should never happen...but it did... I am just glad that the nothing bad happened and that they are truly concerned and are picking up the car and taking it back to Malibu to be re-checked...that really makes me feel good and like I said before..it re-news my faith. They do have to change the nuts and bolts on the steering knuckle...but they may not find any other bolt loose...but at least they are checking.
Now if there were 10 posts or more of the same thing happening to other people from the same builder...then there would be a huge problem and a recall...that is for sure....but It seems like I am the only one with this issue..so I see it as a ver big mistake that is being fixed. AL has called me to let me know that the tow company will be calling to set a time to pick up the car. Of course until the car is picked up and hauled off and fixed...will I will truly have faith...They have kept there word on everything so far.
Paul
Now if there were 10 posts or more of the same thing happening to other people from the same builder...then there would be a huge problem and a recall...that is for sure....but It seems like I am the only one with this issue..so I see it as a ver big mistake that is being fixed. AL has called me to let me know that the tow company will be calling to set a time to pick up the car. Of course until the car is picked up and hauled off and fixed...will I will truly have faith...They have kept there word on everything so far.
Paul
What I was trying to say is that I would rather sell way less engines to those that appreciate them than a huge quantity.
There is a difference in customer service- it goes both ways. The customer deserves service from the vendor because they paid for it, at the same time that customer owes the vendor repsect like any other human. Just because someone buys something does not give them the right to cuss and disrespect the vendor- some people think that buying a spark plug, or a 20,000 buck engine gives them the right to treat the vendor however they want and thats pure non sense.
Above someone mentioned that I "didn't want to be hassled by the customer"- a customer for one should not HAVE to hassle the vendor, but if they do it with disrespect and lack of tact they usually get that back in return. I have shipped engines away that had an issue and the customer called me up and said "Jake, the engine died and I don't know what to do"... One of those guys that did this was a member here, Joe Soltis. Joe treated the issue the way he should and we had him back going in no time, with no questions asked- he did things the right way. Another customer made a big goof when installing his engine and did not crank the engine for oil pressure before it was started and totally defied my written boldly stated instructions. He called me up cussing and raising hell saying "I paid ten thousand dollars for this engine and it is already knocking". When I answered the phone he immediately went into a tangent when he heard my voice, but all while the engine was being built he was calm. His mechanic told him not to worry about following my instructions because he had been doing this for 40 years and had never done this procedure before!
Well, needless to say the Marine in me didn't put up with his attitude. I grabbed his folder, annotated the little escapade in the database under his serial number and threw his folder in the trash, immediately following that I called my Lawyer and had a registered letter headed his way. We won't even get into warranties and the disclaimers that I have all written in bold text and no fine print- anyone that warranties a performance engine isn't wise!
I have been lucky enough to work in a corner of the industry where I get the customers that appreciate my work, and also when the guy comes along that has the traits of being a jerk later on being able to tactfully tell him that we have conflicting personalities and views and we should not work together.
My business is different than most, when I build an engine and it gets my signature I am married to that engine for the rest of my life as well as its purchaser and its future owners. There is nothing worse than creating smething for someone that can't be pleased.
Due to some "issues" in 2003 I made an even more thorough screening program for my engine customers. I tell them all of this up front and most totally agre as to why I do it- if they don't thats the first sign of "one of those guys"....
In 1998 I built 80 engines, last year 27 went through my doors and this year less than 20 will leave. The difference in all of those was the time that went not only into them, but the developments that needed to be created to make them possible. As my R&D time escolated so did my HP, torque and reliability/longevity and the price has followed as well.
When I get down to 10 engines per year I'll be happy, all the while developing components to sell through my store to make it easier for people to do work similar to mine, themselves.
At any rate, I didn't intend to hijack this thread-
BTW- Normal engines don't keep me on my toes, normality is not my thing so I'd certainly rather do a few insane engines that take me hundreds of hours to create than smaller engines that are not any fun and just pay the bills...
There is a difference in customer service- it goes both ways. The customer deserves service from the vendor because they paid for it, at the same time that customer owes the vendor repsect like any other human. Just because someone buys something does not give them the right to cuss and disrespect the vendor- some people think that buying a spark plug, or a 20,000 buck engine gives them the right to treat the vendor however they want and thats pure non sense.
Above someone mentioned that I "didn't want to be hassled by the customer"- a customer for one should not HAVE to hassle the vendor, but if they do it with disrespect and lack of tact they usually get that back in return. I have shipped engines away that had an issue and the customer called me up and said "Jake, the engine died and I don't know what to do"... One of those guys that did this was a member here, Joe Soltis. Joe treated the issue the way he should and we had him back going in no time, with no questions asked- he did things the right way. Another customer made a big goof when installing his engine and did not crank the engine for oil pressure before it was started and totally defied my written boldly stated instructions. He called me up cussing and raising hell saying "I paid ten thousand dollars for this engine and it is already knocking". When I answered the phone he immediately went into a tangent when he heard my voice, but all while the engine was being built he was calm. His mechanic told him not to worry about following my instructions because he had been doing this for 40 years and had never done this procedure before!
Well, needless to say the Marine in me didn't put up with his attitude. I grabbed his folder, annotated the little escapade in the database under his serial number and threw his folder in the trash, immediately following that I called my Lawyer and had a registered letter headed his way. We won't even get into warranties and the disclaimers that I have all written in bold text and no fine print- anyone that warranties a performance engine isn't wise!
I have been lucky enough to work in a corner of the industry where I get the customers that appreciate my work, and also when the guy comes along that has the traits of being a jerk later on being able to tactfully tell him that we have conflicting personalities and views and we should not work together.
My business is different than most, when I build an engine and it gets my signature I am married to that engine for the rest of my life as well as its purchaser and its future owners. There is nothing worse than creating smething for someone that can't be pleased.
Due to some "issues" in 2003 I made an even more thorough screening program for my engine customers. I tell them all of this up front and most totally agre as to why I do it- if they don't thats the first sign of "one of those guys"....
In 1998 I built 80 engines, last year 27 went through my doors and this year less than 20 will leave. The difference in all of those was the time that went not only into them, but the developments that needed to be created to make them possible. As my R&D time escolated so did my HP, torque and reliability/longevity and the price has followed as well.
When I get down to 10 engines per year I'll be happy, all the while developing components to sell through my store to make it easier for people to do work similar to mine, themselves.
At any rate, I didn't intend to hijack this thread-
BTW- Normal engines don't keep me on my toes, normality is not my thing so I'd certainly rather do a few insane engines that take me hundreds of hours to create than smaller engines that are not any fun and just pay the bills...
Glad that AL is working in a positive direction to resolve your issues, glad to have been a bit of help!
Alan,
YOu were a HUGE help and I can't thank you enough. I have kept the info on the person to contact if this goes bad....I really do not think that it will. YOu really helped me in every way...You can tell your love for these cars and the hobby as a whole. It is proven through helping me as well as others on this site....that you take pride in every aspect of building the speedsters.. I hope that I can call and pick your brain at times when it comes to cars....especially these cars..since they are a little different ball game then Amrican Muscle cars.
Paul
YOu were a HUGE help and I can't thank you enough. I have kept the info on the person to contact if this goes bad....I really do not think that it will. YOu really helped me in every way...You can tell your love for these cars and the hobby as a whole. It is proven through helping me as well as others on this site....that you take pride in every aspect of building the speedsters.. I hope that I can call and pick your brain at times when it comes to cars....especially these cars..since they are a little different ball game then Amrican Muscle cars.
Paul
Yep, shit does happen-
even with highly developed and tested parts/engines/cars things can break.. Even aircraft parts break that are X rayed and eddy current tested on a routine basis!
What makes the difference is how the vendor handles the situation when it does happen- and how the customer initiates the process with the vendor. That first phone call/email is critical!
even with highly developed and tested parts/engines/cars things can break.. Even aircraft parts break that are X rayed and eddy current tested on a routine basis!
What makes the difference is how the vendor handles the situation when it does happen- and how the customer initiates the process with the vendor. That first phone call/email is critical!
Paul, I hope you don't feel like I'm attacking you, because I'm not. I think you, like most people fall for this bullshit line about how they build one car after another, and if they had repeated issues there would be a recall. NO, there would not be a recall....these are not huge companies with millions and millions of dollars at stake if they screw up and people get killed. They in fact will pull everything out of the building and start up right next door. A lot of these companies have repeated problems and issues that they don't correct for years, people at this site discuss and know them all to well.
And yes, on a handbuilt car, I do check every single nut and bolt. I don't buy used production car's anymore just for the reason of I don't know what someone may or may not have done to it, but I will admit that on a brand new production car, I only look at everything, I don't actually put any wrench's on it, unless it looks questionable, and then I just take it back to the dealership and ask them to look at it and tell me why it looks the way it does. Production cars are built with so much more standards and double checks then a handbuilt car it isn't really even comparable. Do you think the guy putting the suspension on a new Honda has any bolts available to him that aren't the correct ones? Heck no, or they would be making the same stupid careless mistakes. I think you are falling for the bullshit again, and that's what scares me. If you still have the car, you need to fully inspect it now, before it goes back. When you get this car back, check it like an idiot built it, check it like they don't really care if you die, check it like you know something is wrong with it but they aren't telling you what, check it like your life depends on it, and more importantly check it like your wife and childs life depend on it, because they do. If you really think they care about your wife, your child, or you, as much as you do, then you are falling for a line. They aren't about to check every nut and bolt on that car, because time is money, and money is mostly what they are motivated by....
Word of mouth doesn't even mean a lot in this industry because most places have plenty of backlog of work and it is a world marketplace. If you and your family were killed next week in that car, only local people and people who knew you would actually know....that isn't going to effect sales for them one bit.
And yes, on a handbuilt car, I do check every single nut and bolt. I don't buy used production car's anymore just for the reason of I don't know what someone may or may not have done to it, but I will admit that on a brand new production car, I only look at everything, I don't actually put any wrench's on it, unless it looks questionable, and then I just take it back to the dealership and ask them to look at it and tell me why it looks the way it does. Production cars are built with so much more standards and double checks then a handbuilt car it isn't really even comparable. Do you think the guy putting the suspension on a new Honda has any bolts available to him that aren't the correct ones? Heck no, or they would be making the same stupid careless mistakes. I think you are falling for the bullshit again, and that's what scares me. If you still have the car, you need to fully inspect it now, before it goes back. When you get this car back, check it like an idiot built it, check it like they don't really care if you die, check it like you know something is wrong with it but they aren't telling you what, check it like your life depends on it, and more importantly check it like your wife and childs life depend on it, because they do. If you really think they care about your wife, your child, or you, as much as you do, then you are falling for a line. They aren't about to check every nut and bolt on that car, because time is money, and money is mostly what they are motivated by....
Word of mouth doesn't even mean a lot in this industry because most places have plenty of backlog of work and it is a world marketplace. If you and your family were killed next week in that car, only local people and people who knew you would actually know....that isn't going to effect sales for them one bit.
Steve,
I see your point....I again just assumed..maybe me building my own cars and being around people that build there own cars and I see how much care they put into them...just clouded my vision. It is kind of a two edged sword...I should not have assumed...My mistake..because I am human too. I am not going to touch any bolt on the car right now...they are coming to pick it up and take it back and check it. I have my ways of telling if they put a wrench on a bolt or not and actually checked it. When I was a kid helping my old man with his restorations..he would tell me to tighten up this or that...and if I got lazy or just plain forgot..he always caught me...he finally showed me the different ways that he was able to catch me. He also told me that even though he had me tighten some stuff or intsall stuff..he always went back and double checked everything when I was not around...I told him...if you were going to double check my work then why not do it yourself...he told me...you don't learn unless you do it...and you don't learn unless you see that you made a mistake and fix it yourself. Anyway...My old man and myself have already done some tricks to help us determine if a bolt had been attempted to be tightened.
The reason that I am not touching anything at this point..is because they want to go through everything...and they know that I am driving it back from Malibu to Sac when they are done...I plan on having them leave the wheels off and let me double check everything myself right at there shop...I will then reinstall the wheels myself. Then I will check everything again when i get home....My garage is like a full shop...air tools...wrenches...drop lights...jacks...jack stands...the works..lol. Plus. I am tearing apart my Nova for another frame off...so a littl break from the Nova to check out the Porsche will be nice. To be honest...I am really hoping that he will just sell the car for me if anybody is interested when it is fixed. I need the room for my 67 Nova that I am also going to dig into after I finish my 72..It should be done by next summer...When I get going I do not mess around...but who knows.
No attack here brother...I totally understand...this has opened my nieve eyes. Second..I do have a lawyer and experts that have documented everything like I posted earlier. I do have to disagree with the...if somebody died only the locals would know....I know that this site alone is world wide and I know that there are individuals on this site that would go after whoever it was.....and not let up..because they are just that type of person. Anyway..no problem brother..you post for sure opened my eyes to being so trusting.
Paul
I see your point....I again just assumed..maybe me building my own cars and being around people that build there own cars and I see how much care they put into them...just clouded my vision. It is kind of a two edged sword...I should not have assumed...My mistake..because I am human too. I am not going to touch any bolt on the car right now...they are coming to pick it up and take it back and check it. I have my ways of telling if they put a wrench on a bolt or not and actually checked it. When I was a kid helping my old man with his restorations..he would tell me to tighten up this or that...and if I got lazy or just plain forgot..he always caught me...he finally showed me the different ways that he was able to catch me. He also told me that even though he had me tighten some stuff or intsall stuff..he always went back and double checked everything when I was not around...I told him...if you were going to double check my work then why not do it yourself...he told me...you don't learn unless you do it...and you don't learn unless you see that you made a mistake and fix it yourself. Anyway...My old man and myself have already done some tricks to help us determine if a bolt had been attempted to be tightened.
The reason that I am not touching anything at this point..is because they want to go through everything...and they know that I am driving it back from Malibu to Sac when they are done...I plan on having them leave the wheels off and let me double check everything myself right at there shop...I will then reinstall the wheels myself. Then I will check everything again when i get home....My garage is like a full shop...air tools...wrenches...drop lights...jacks...jack stands...the works..lol. Plus. I am tearing apart my Nova for another frame off...so a littl break from the Nova to check out the Porsche will be nice. To be honest...I am really hoping that he will just sell the car for me if anybody is interested when it is fixed. I need the room for my 67 Nova that I am also going to dig into after I finish my 72..It should be done by next summer...When I get going I do not mess around...but who knows.
No attack here brother...I totally understand...this has opened my nieve eyes. Second..I do have a lawyer and experts that have documented everything like I posted earlier. I do have to disagree with the...if somebody died only the locals would know....I know that this site alone is world wide and I know that there are individuals on this site that would go after whoever it was.....and not let up..because they are just that type of person. Anyway..no problem brother..you post for sure opened my eyes to being so trusting.
Paul
I know I came into this late, but when was the car put together? Was it advertised to be "New and Free of Defects?" ... Or was it "Used; No Warranty?"
Who registered it last before you got it, Paul? Was it built at home or bought turn-key by that person?
Either way, Alan 'done good' in looking out for the little guy in the same way as Curt Scott looked out for me a couple years back. Good on you, Alan. Sounds like the AL folks have a healthy respect for you and your protective nature. I sure do.
I have to say also that Jake and Co. did just fine by me. I know I'm gambling with my life when my Hoopty is done, but that's because of my welding, not the 2366 my machinist-wrench pal built or its Raby-built cooling mods.
I'll have nobody to blame but myself if I get hurt.
Who registered it last before you got it, Paul? Was it built at home or bought turn-key by that person?
Either way, Alan 'done good' in looking out for the little guy in the same way as Curt Scott looked out for me a couple years back. Good on you, Alan. Sounds like the AL folks have a healthy respect for you and your protective nature. I sure do.
I have to say also that Jake and Co. did just fine by me. I know I'm gambling with my life when my Hoopty is done, but that's because of my welding, not the 2366 my machinist-wrench pal built or its Raby-built cooling mods.
I'll have nobody to blame but myself if I get hurt.
Thanks Cory! BTW, I have done a Raby Type IV install and it is well worth the investment and easy to install, Jake's customer support in my opinion, is top notch.
As the my boy Jeff (28) said, ....."Weeeeeee Daddy!"
___________________
Curt Scott and I have talked at length on a several occasions at Carlisle, he's "my hero". Despite me not being involved with the CMC follies years back, I had an interest in the fact that he had put his reputation on the line to expose the Fla. company's tactics that left hundreds well fleeced...many of which at one time or the other have been on this site.
I've bought a good number of unassembled CMC speedsters from people that just gave up fighting with CMC for missing parts (there are probably still many just sitting stacked with lawn furnitue on top of the bodies) You would be amazed at the stacks of certified mailings that came with these cars and were sent to CMC to no avail as they buyers were basically helpless until Curt's intervention.
On Paul's behalf, I conveyed the facts in a polite, professional manner to the company in question presenting the safety ethical and the moral obligations, the impact of the situation as it made it's way into the awareness of both speedster groups mentioning that many prospective speedster buyers first make inquiries on the speedster groups. Hence, that was the wake up call....As they say "Stay Tuned".
As the my boy Jeff (28) said, ....."Weeeeeee Daddy!"
___________________
Curt Scott and I have talked at length on a several occasions at Carlisle, he's "my hero". Despite me not being involved with the CMC follies years back, I had an interest in the fact that he had put his reputation on the line to expose the Fla. company's tactics that left hundreds well fleeced...many of which at one time or the other have been on this site.
I've bought a good number of unassembled CMC speedsters from people that just gave up fighting with CMC for missing parts (there are probably still many just sitting stacked with lawn furnitue on top of the bodies) You would be amazed at the stacks of certified mailings that came with these cars and were sent to CMC to no avail as they buyers were basically helpless until Curt's intervention.
On Paul's behalf, I conveyed the facts in a polite, professional manner to the company in question presenting the safety ethical and the moral obligations, the impact of the situation as it made it's way into the awareness of both speedster groups mentioning that many prospective speedster buyers first make inquiries on the speedster groups. Hence, that was the wake up call....As they say "Stay Tuned".
Alan - you've got mail.
Steven....you are so right!!!! my husband bought a brand new F-350 and after 6 months, Ford had to buy it back, we had our attorney ready to go and they knew that they didn't have a fat chance but we did our homework and we were prepared with all documented facts.
Paul, I'm feeling much better about your situation and the eventual outcome....thanks so much for your posts....it should serve the community well.
I've been following this for a while and although late, I wanted to add my 2 cents. Here goes: While there most certainly are some unscrouplulous organizations selling products and are out to screw people, I believe that they are the excpetion - very very few and far between. Most business people WANT to take care of their customers and any issues that pop up. Some are certainly more concerned than others and some are better at it than others. None are going to be perfect. As an RV dealer for over 40 years, dealing with homes on wheels (think about putting your whole house on wheels and driving it over America's roads - talk about potential for problems), we see more than our share of issues and deal with folks that think the quality level should match a Lexus or BMW. Point is as Jake was alluding to, issues get resolved best when approached from a "please help me" mindset instead of an accusing, heated and argumentative tone. Yes it is true that whatever the issue, it should not happen and the offenders they should have done better and on and on, but what is done is done and in my company we will bend over backwards to resolve it - whatever it takes. That's why we have a service department and folks trained to do service work. The focus should be to get resolution, and not punish to the offender. Isn't that what we really want anyway? To get it fixed right as soon as possible! A good businessperson will take steps to prevent a repeat of the issue and we as consumers will get to vote with our dollars if they don't. Bottom line is you will always get farther being nice and respectful when in need than you will by being threatening and abusive. You attract more bees with honey than you do with vinegar and those are the worker bees! Sorry if this sounds preachy it isn't meant to be. We have all had this kind of situation occur and it sucks! But I know in my company we will break our backs to help nice people. The abusive ones get help too, but who wants to get abused over and over again? But when no one will respond to an legitimate issue after repeated "nice" requests for help - ALL BETS ARE OFF AND BE A PITBULL! You can be nice again AFTER you get their attention. Kudos to Alan for helping A.L. see the light. Let's hope they follow through and do whats right.
Just a little update...I was called on Monday from AL to let me know that a car hauler would be calling me to set up a pick up time...I also gave them my wifes cell phone #...well it is Friday and I have not received a call yet from the car hauler...I will call AL on Monday to get an Update....and I will update you all.
I totally understand the last post. I was so nice about the other issues...and they never got taken care of either...then I had to be a PIT BULL...I am going to be very cautious through this whole ordeal. Trust me..I am one of the nicest people you would ever meet...small town boy..lol!! Fool me once shame on you..fool me twice..shame on me...There will be no twice...I have been documenting every phone call and conversation since day one, inspection records from a dealership as well as a Commercial officer, I have all the past e-mails from Mike B. explaining what the warranty covers before I purchased the car..and what "if" questions that were answered by Mike B...before I purchased the car and my lawyer is advising me what to do every step of the way. Right now I am taking ALans advice and letting them step up and do what is right and being very civil and patient..but it is very thin...and that is a FIRST for me. I know that it will all work out in the end. I have faith..
I totally understand the last post. I was so nice about the other issues...and they never got taken care of either...then I had to be a PIT BULL...I am going to be very cautious through this whole ordeal. Trust me..I am one of the nicest people you would ever meet...small town boy..lol!! Fool me once shame on you..fool me twice..shame on me...There will be no twice...I have been documenting every phone call and conversation since day one, inspection records from a dealership as well as a Commercial officer, I have all the past e-mails from Mike B. explaining what the warranty covers before I purchased the car..and what "if" questions that were answered by Mike B...before I purchased the car and my lawyer is advising me what to do every step of the way. Right now I am taking ALans advice and letting them step up and do what is right and being very civil and patient..but it is very thin...and that is a FIRST for me. I know that it will all work out in the end. I have faith..
AL called today and confirmed that the tow company had made an appointment to pick up the car. The tow company did in fact make an appointment and the car will be picked up this Thursday and will be on its way back to LA from Sacramento. It looks like this is going to all work out. I will feel good that the car is being inspected by the factory and AL. I told him if he had a buyer to just sell it...if someone buys it...it will be meant to be...if not...it will come back home. I kind of do not want to..but the wife is pressuring me...she is really scared of the car ...now.....I just put a 1200.00 stereo system in the car and a 300.00 alarm system and she does not care..LOL!! Anyway..things are going just fine so far...I am SOOOOOOOO glad the AL is taking care of business...Alan thanks again to you.
Paul
Paul
Hey Paul,
Glad they are following through on your behalf, take your time in a decision to sell it, haste makes waste as I regret parting with more than one of my rides.
Perhaps when you get it back home, after you have completed an extended check ride and are satisfied that all has been addressed, take yourself take the Mrs. for a casual ride....to dinner ?
Glad they are following through on your behalf, take your time in a decision to sell it, haste makes waste as I regret parting with more than one of my rides.
Perhaps when you get it back home, after you have completed an extended check ride and are satisfied that all has been addressed, take yourself take the Mrs. for a casual ride....to dinner ?
Well,
another update! The car hauler...picked up my little speedster wide body tonight...it is on its way to malibu to have the right bolts installed on the steering, A/C fixed and a full inspection!...I am so happy that this is all working out! It feels good to have AL stand by there product. I can't wait to fly down when it is all done..and drive the car home!!! I will keep you all updated! Alan..again thank you! You all have been so supportive through this trying time.
Most of all it re-news my faith in the owner of AL! and the company as a whole.
Paul
another update! The car hauler...picked up my little speedster wide body tonight...it is on its way to malibu to have the right bolts installed on the steering, A/C fixed and a full inspection!...I am so happy that this is all working out! It feels good to have AL stand by there product. I can't wait to fly down when it is all done..and drive the car home!!! I will keep you all updated! Alan..again thank you! You all have been so supportive through this trying time.
Most of all it re-news my faith in the owner of AL! and the company as a whole.
Paul
It doesn't sound like "AL" stood by its product until a very large "stink" was made.....In my mind this doesn't wipe the slate clean....just my opinion....they gotta get a few "atta boys" to make up for this "ah shit" if you ask me......
I really do have to agree with you...on that one. It should have never come to this. That is what I explained to the owner when he was pissed that I posted on e-bay....I told him that he "made me" do it by not standing behind his product. Then after he cooled off...he admitted that he did not do things the right way. Don't get me wrong..I am not all warm and fuzzy at all...I am still irritated and will be for a long time..my pride was hurt, I felt like I was lied to, used and most of all..my feelings were hurt..I really like AL and the people that worked there...but again..it will take a lot more atta boys for me too.
Paul
Paul
Paul....why do you want that car back??? make them buy it back and go get one made, one that your wife will feel safe and all of the crappy memories aren't there...also is your child gonna want to ride that particular car ever again...think not!!! and as far as AL =CACA DE TORO lol
Esther, does that mean bull shit in Spanish???......:D
Ricardo, I haven't studied Spanish since high school and that's what I made out of it.
El Guapo and his 3 amigos have witnessed this 'Caca De Toro, as you call it, many times! One might even say El Guapo has witnessed a 'plethora' of caca de toro situations in the realm of the automotive world.
Since Speedies are of German origin shouldn't it be "Oxen Scheitzen"? I think that's the right spelling, a lttle help from across the pond if it isn't. Of course if Mexican parts are used then the first phrase is politically correct.
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Did AL make/construct this car? I know they sold it and should have some responsibility, but if they did not build it, and it was new car (I imagine that reseller sell a car "used") then shouldn't the builder be responsible or check things before they sell to their customer, in this case AL. I am sure that AL did not loosen anything after receiving the car or selling it.
Perhaps better/different hardware should have been used in construction, especially on something as important as steering components?
And Paul, I live in Dixon and have nearly every other weekend off (wife works everyother weekend) so if you want to take a drive up into the hills or down the delta, let me know.
Perhaps better/different hardware should have been used in construction, especially on something as important as steering components?
And Paul, I live in Dixon and have nearly every other weekend off (wife works everyother weekend) so if you want to take a drive up into the hills or down the delta, let me know.
I believe that Automotive Legends buys turnkey Speedsters from Kirk at VS and then adds various extras and additional equipment for "resale." The mark-up from the original VS configuration can be substantial.
While it's very doubtful (as Dale said) that AL did anything to cause the steering problem with this particular car, the way they initially handled the situation is regrettable - especially in light of how many people in the Speedster Replica community worldwide now associate the Automotive Legends name with this experience. It's going to be a tough "bell" to "unring."
However, if I were a litigating man (and I'm not), I wouldn't take Vintage Speedsters name off the list just yet. Kirk's guys built the car (presumably) and shipped it to AL.
This is yet another in the long list of reasons to buy direct from the manufacturer. If Kirk had sold this car to the buyer, he would have responded much more favorably to a ligitimate complaint than did the guys at Automotive Legends.
Middle-men generally add very little to a car other than a larger pricetag. It's been documented here many times.
While it's very doubtful (as Dale said) that AL did anything to cause the steering problem with this particular car, the way they initially handled the situation is regrettable - especially in light of how many people in the Speedster Replica community worldwide now associate the Automotive Legends name with this experience. It's going to be a tough "bell" to "unring."
However, if I were a litigating man (and I'm not), I wouldn't take Vintage Speedsters name off the list just yet. Kirk's guys built the car (presumably) and shipped it to AL.
This is yet another in the long list of reasons to buy direct from the manufacturer. If Kirk had sold this car to the buyer, he would have responded much more favorably to a ligitimate complaint than did the guys at Automotive Legends.
Middle-men generally add very little to a car other than a larger pricetag. It's been documented here many times.
Nolan.....the correct spelling in german is ochsenscheisse....and si that does mean bullshit!!! la guapa
You are all right...I purchased the car from AL and it is built by vintage. Vintage set up the hauler and hauled it back to Malibu. Talking to the owner of AL today...he told me that the car is at Vintage and to deal with them for now on. I called Vintage and asked for KIRK but he is gone for a couple of days. So I talked to another fellow who was personally going to do the work on my car. He wanted the low down on my car....every little thing that is wrong with the car. Not just the steering and A/C issue. I told him that the car was not buffed out properly that there were buff marks in some areas as well as clouded areas where there buffer missed, the car runs real rich and the piping for the heater has burn holes because it was mounted against the exhaust. They said that they would fix it all and rebuff the car. The guy was a great guy and he really apologized about the situation. They had no idea that the car had problems and if they had known....they would have picked the car up immediatly. The gentleman that I talked to was sincere and had a very large understanding that the customers and word of mouth keeps there business going and they want to make there customers happy. I will call KurK on Tuesday when he gets back and see what his expectations are. After talking to Vintage...I really feel good about the whole situation....they were not aware of anything regarding my car until the ebay thing. They wish that they would have found out a lot sooner and none of this would have happened.
Paul
Paul
Danke! Esther.
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for the record ochenscheisse is a literal translation of the english words OXEN and S-IT. most words are not literally translated therefore if you're objective is to say BULLSH-T in german and have its slang meaning understood say SCHEI
It has been my experience that being able to point out BS in several different languages is important to effective interpersonal communications. ;-)
angela
angela
So now it appears AL doesn't want anything to do with it any more...interesting......
I just looked on ebay; there are four AL Speedster listings up there right now!
http://search-desc.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&catref=C6&from=R10&satitle=%22automotive+legends%22+356&sacat=6000%26catref%3DC6&fts=2&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=22211&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fpos=22211&lsot=&fsop=1%26fsoo%3D1&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search&fgtp=&fpos=22211
http://search-desc.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&catref=C6&from=R10&satitle=%22automotive+legends%22+356&sacat=6000%26catref%3DC6&fts=2&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=22211&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fpos=22211&lsot=&fsop=1%26fsoo%3D1&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search&fgtp=&fpos=22211
I certainly wouldn't deal with them after hearing of this and other fiascos, but that 550 they have listed is SWEET looking. Does anyone here know who makes it?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsche-550-Syder-One-Of-A-Kind-550-LeManns-Coupe-ITS-HERE_W0QQitemZ270024462160QQihZ017QQcategoryZ6058QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsche-550-Syder-One-Of-A-Kind-550-LeManns-Coupe-ITS-HERE_W0QQitemZ270024462160QQihZ017QQcategoryZ6058QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
This has come up before...It's nice to talk about how to deal with a customer after the fact
but----Any person who would put that kind of nut on an essential connection is not a
mechanic, professional or even mechanically inclined. I wonder who is actually "building".
Jake, you mention dealing with customers. When someone pays you and you have
"put your name to it" you own the work performed(I remember you aviation history) and are responsible for the whole project (even though it might not be your ownwork). If VS has people "building" under their name they better be sure they are professional mechanics and not just laborers.
Steve O'-I have to kid you a bit. Being an a/c mech I "sometimes" feel almost honored when
a pilot takes my word that everything we have just done was done correctly. I don't trust anybody except Mom. But as you know when the cockpit door is closed everyone trusts that you got enough sleep(prior to), didn't drink too much and don't bring any issues with you into the cockpit and are ready to do your task properly.
I expect that of all "professionals" .
but----Any person who would put that kind of nut on an essential connection is not a
mechanic, professional or even mechanically inclined. I wonder who is actually "building".
Jake, you mention dealing with customers. When someone pays you and you have
"put your name to it" you own the work performed(I remember you aviation history) and are responsible for the whole project (even though it might not be your ownwork). If VS has people "building" under their name they better be sure they are professional mechanics and not just laborers.
Steve O'-I have to kid you a bit. Being an a/c mech I "sometimes" feel almost honored when
a pilot takes my word that everything we have just done was done correctly. I don't trust anybody except Mom. But as you know when the cockpit door is closed everyone trusts that you got enough sleep(prior to), didn't drink too much and don't bring any issues with you into the cockpit and are ready to do your task properly.
I expect that of all "professionals" .
Now that I see those ads I realize Automotive Legends is the dealer that appeared in the Rides episode on Porsches with Jay Leno. The Spyder 550 is manufactured by the Fibersteel people (Russ Rodr
Ricadro-
Fibersteel has had hardtops and sliding side curtains for replicas "coming soon" since I bought my first speedster in 2000. I went through my own personal version of Cory's "hoopty" experience in 2002 when I tried to have a JPS built around a Glaspar hardtop that John Steele and Russ Rodriguez were supposed to collaborate on.
Russ is a craftsman capable of some VERY high level work. But he's no businessman.
Nothing about this situation surprises me in the least. It all seems to fit together perfectly IMHO.
Fibersteel has had hardtops and sliding side curtains for replicas "coming soon" since I bought my first speedster in 2000. I went through my own personal version of Cory's "hoopty" experience in 2002 when I tried to have a JPS built around a Glaspar hardtop that John Steele and Russ Rodriguez were supposed to collaborate on.
Russ is a craftsman capable of some VERY high level work. But he's no businessman.
Nothing about this situation surprises me in the least. It all seems to fit together perfectly IMHO.
Yep Stan; I have followed the "coming soon" deal with the sliding curtains too....