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Do you know this speedie? Mismatched VINs?

FM Former Member
All,

First the good: After spending months researching Speedies, reading and asking questions on this site, I decided to pull the trigger last week. I bought my first speedie. It's an yellowish ivory color with beige interior. Its a 1600 with the 3.88 trans. full carpet kit in truck and throughout the car. Nardi wheel with moons on the wheels. In mint shape!

The bad: I live in Houston, but bought the car from Georgia and realized that the VIN number from all the documentation (docs all read "AZ238480"), but this did not match the VIN from the VW Pan chassis (119839825). I don't believe the seller of the car intended to mislead me, he just didn't know enough about the Speedie in the first place.

Can you help me identify this speedie or make some suggestions as to how I could resolve this? The car as been through a few hands before it got to me.

Here is the history as I've concluded: It is a VS speedie (VS plate in the door jam) made in California. I THINK (!!!!) it might have been sold and first titled in Arizona (thus the "AZ" in the AZ238480 number). The physical title I was given by the Georgia seller was from Florida showing the AZ238480 VIN. The seller had a Bill of Sale and properly signed the Transfer of Title on the back of the original Florida Title. The names/signatures of the Florida Title owner properly signed over to the seller that I brought it from. Seller had proper Registration in the state of Georgia showing the AZ238480 VIN. [Georgia does not issue a new title for vintage cars in their state, thus the seller only did the Transfer of Title)

Here is the million dollar question: Where did the AZ238480 number come from? The AZ suggested to me that it was from AZ, but then why didn't the first owner title the car with the proper chassis VW pan VIN number? Does the state of Arizona just assign the Speedie a completely new VIN? If this is true, this would explain how it got to Florida (then eventually to Georgia) with a new "AZ" Vin.

I've somewhat successfully titled the car in Texas with the documentation alone all under the AZ238480 VIN. The DMV just asked for the long paper trail matching up names/VINs. All is good so far. here is the real problem. Although it is titled in Texas now, it is titled with the AZ238480 number that does not exist physically anywhere on the car. This means, I cannot get tags/plates for the car because the car first needs to be inspected where it will fail the VIN number matchup.

I've attached couple pictures of it and the 2 VIN numbers are all over this post. Can someone help identify the car so that I can trace its true history and hopefully identify where the AZ238480 came from? I believe if I can properly document this, that I can re-title it with the proper chassis VIN. Please help!! Otherwise I just bought a Speedie that I cannot drive legally! Thanks!


http://s207.photobucket.com/albums/bb158/bclaborn/
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FM Former Member
All,

First the good: After spending months researching Speedies, reading and asking questions on this site, I decided to pull the trigger last week. I bought my first speedie. It's an yellowish ivory color with beige interior. Its a 1600 with the 3.88 trans. full carpet kit in truck and throughout the car. Nardi wheel with moons on the wheels. In mint shape!

The bad: I live in Houston, but bought the car from Georgia and realized that the VIN number from all the documentation (docs all read "AZ238480"), but this did not match the VIN from the VW Pan chassis (119839825). I don't believe the seller of the car intended to mislead me, he just didn't know enough about the Speedie in the first place.

Can you help me identify this speedie or make some suggestions as to how I could resolve this? The car as been through a few hands before it got to me.

Here is the history as I've concluded: It is a VS speedie (VS plate in the door jam) made in California. I THINK (!!!!) it might have been sold and first titled in Arizona (thus the "AZ" in the AZ238480 number). The physical title I was given by the Georgia seller was from Florida showing the AZ238480 VIN. The seller had a Bill of Sale and properly signed the Transfer of Title on the back of the original Florida Title. The names/signatures of the Florida Title owner properly signed over to the seller that I brought it from. Seller had proper Registration in the state of Georgia showing the AZ238480 VIN. [Georgia does not issue a new title for vintage cars in their state, thus the seller only did the Transfer of Title)

Here is the million dollar question: Where did the AZ238480 number come from? The AZ suggested to me that it was from AZ, but then why didn't the first owner title the car with the proper chassis VW pan VIN number? Does the state of Arizona just assign the Speedie a completely new VIN? If this is true, this would explain how it got to Florida (then eventually to Georgia) with a new "AZ" Vin.

I've somewhat successfully titled the car in Texas with the documentation alone all under the AZ238480 VIN. The DMV just asked for the long paper trail matching up names/VINs. All is good so far. here is the real problem. Although it is titled in Texas now, it is titled with the AZ238480 number that does not exist physically anywhere on the car. This means, I cannot get tags/plates for the car because the car first needs to be inspected where it will fail the VIN number matchup.

I've attached couple pictures of it and the 2 VIN numbers are all over this post. Can someone help identify the car so that I can trace its true history and hopefully identify where the AZ238480 came from? I believe if I can properly document this, that I can re-title it with the proper chassis VIN. Please help!! Otherwise I just bought a Speedie that I cannot drive legally! Thanks!


http://s207.photobucket.com/albums/bb158/bclaborn/
FM Former Member
Larry's right.

The Speedster probably ended up with an assigned VIN when it was first titled. Maybe as a specially constructed vehicle or some such thing, a number of states are doing this now.

Why not just call the Arizona DMV and ask them for some info on how/why they title Speedsters. They might be able to help. There's a re-seller from AZ who's always got cars on eBAy, ALL of their cars list title numbers beginning with "AZ." they might be worth a call. Often the VIN tag is put on the front "fire wall" above the pedals on the left. It was on my car. Otherwise, maybe the door jams or tunnel?

Luck!

TC
Gordon NicholsGordon NicholsMassachusetts 1993 CMC Supporting Member
If they're anything like South Carolina, it could be a totally made up number and may not appear anywhere on the actual vehicle.

I have a car hauler trailer that was totally fabricated by my son, Chris. It has no VIN or serial number tag anywhere on it. That stymied the DMV in SC for a few seconds, until a supervisor suggested that I make one up, so it has the first three letters of my last name, followed by my birth date. That info shows up on my registration certificate, but no where else.

I wonder if a home/hand-built car could follow the same pattern here, if the builder didn't use (or know about) the original VIN??

gn
WOLFGANGWOLFGANG'89 CMC FWB, FL Supporting Member
If you can't find the AZ number stamped anywhere - why not buy a Reutter blank plate and stamp the number into it. Klasse356 has them for about $12 (part # EMB17). They are maybe 2x2 and have a blank space for the serial number and (some) the color. Harbor Freight has $10 metal stamp dies with letters and numbers. This could be afixed with pop rivets to the vehicle. Believe the original was affixed to the door pilliar up where the hinges are on the drivers side. If you don't like Reutter they have Draus, Karmann, D'Ieteren and others. These stamps could be used to mark the chassis and transmission too - but not sure I'd grind off old original markings if you have a paper trail for them.
FM Former Member
I'd love to buy a new VIN plate, but that comes off a bit fishy if I did it myself. =)

Is re-vin'ing a vehicle a common practice with these cars? I think if I can explain and document this, I would have a case. Since the "new VIN" is AZxxxxxx, I guess I was correct in saying it was reissued a new VIN/title in Arizona.

I'll try and call them to see what they say. Thanks!
FM Former Member
Kevin,
Both my Speedster and my Spyder were issued new VIN numbers by the State of Missouri even though both had existing VINs from the builders of the bodies. The State Highway Partol also installed a new VIN plate on both cars on the "A" post, driver's side, by the hinges on one and on the "B" post, driver's side, near the latch on the other. Missouri also applies a decal to the inside of the windshield that references the Missouri-assigned VIN.
Try looking for such a plateon the tunnel or on the frame if there is none on the door jambs.
Jim
ProSpyder
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