Does a BAS header fit a Speedster?

Has anyone actually bolted up a BAS model 21152 header onto a type 4 engine in a speedster? I have a JPS and the engine has a standard type 4 bus rear crossmember for support. Looking at some of the pictures of this header on various websites (mostly on standard VWs) I have a concern that some of the tubes may interfere with this rear support bar, or possible the rear bumper support arms. Does anyone have some actual experience with this header? I believe the chassis on JPS and Vintage are quite similar. The nearest dealer is two hours from me, so I'd like to hear from anyone who has actually done this install. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks for any input.
crzntub.

This is definitely a question for Jake Raby. Either visit his site and get his email address or go to shoptalkforums.com, then the Type4rum link and post your question there. When Jake still installed his engines he put a lot of T4's into customer Speedsters.

I am in the same boat as you. I know Jake likes the BAS for fit, flow and price. The Tangerine system is the best, but at several times the cost of a BAS.

I will either go with a BAS myself, or else I am considering a Remmele stainless steel muffler system (read about them at aircooled.net) or else have been in touch with LA Performance "(in London) re their "stainless steel back box" muffer system. Its cost is 285 pounds, bolts onto your Vw shortened heater boxes, or you could buy his tuned j-tubes (145 pounds) and do without heater boxes. I understand Jake has a back box on a customer engine and tested it.

What I like about it is no interferance with valve adjustments, it is suppose to sound cool, it has two outlets that exit the rear body just like the original 356's had. I read a German tuner said for the BAS Vs. the Remmele system (more or less the same as the LA Performance back box) there is a 6 HP loss, which may or may not make up your mind.

Just to clarify, the BAS model 21152 has no heater boxes. Living in southern CA I can forego them. The header I am interested in is the one piece unit that bolts directly to the heads and has no heater boxes. I mention this because the tube routing for the heater box-header system is different. Thansk to all for any help.

CB Performance will soon be distributing S/S merged 1 5/8" (clears the thermostat) and 1 3/4" header systems (no heater boxes). Muffler installation will have to be custom done for your car. I will be using one of these 1 3/4" S/S systems modified to clear the thermostat on my new 2,387cc type 1 engine.

S/S heater boxes are available from a European company and can be modified to fit.

(Message Edited 1/21/2003 3:57:15 PM)

David, where are the BAS muffler units located; are they tucked up beside the valve covers? If so you may have to remove the mufflers to adjust valves, don't know but am curious myself. The other issue you first asked is does the bus rear engine brace conflict with the header, don't know that either, ask Jake. There aren't many T4 guys around here. Let us know what you find out. I am within two months of needing to know myself, though I am tempted to go with the retro LA/Remnmel unit just to be different.

I have installed BAS header set up from Jake Raby on two of his T-4 motors. It is a walk in the park to install, fits nicely w/o valve cover clearance problems.
they are a bit costly but have a unique sound with out the hars sound of a cheap "blow thru" system.

Performance.....you ask?

Will easily blow by a Audi TT and still have 3rd and forth gears to go to go!

Alan Merklin

Youth Services Agency ...Vocational Speedster Auto Shop

Alan,
Please clarify, did you have the type 4 engines installed in a speedster or another vehicle? I am not worried about fit-up to the engine, I am worried about the fit-up to the chassis! I am waiting for the dealer in L.A to get some headers in stock. Then I will probably have to drive up there (2 hour drive through less than friendly traffic) and check the fit. Dealer tells me this model is really designed to fit a type 4 installed in a standard VW body/chassis, the way they do it in Europe. And they usually do not use a rear engine support bar (he says). I have a rear suport bar in my speedster. Any info specifically to a speedster would be of value. Thanks.

Which type 4 engine? I remember driving 411s, 412s, and 914-4s, and none of them were exactly speed demons.

(Message Edited 2/10/2003 3:19:56 PM)

George,

The 411/412/914 you refer to were all stock T4 engines and like the stock 1600 beetle were not performance inspiring (though certainly the 2.0 914 was quick as the dickens), however, I know you aren't implying T4's can't be made fast, right? I reckon your new engine will be a beast, though I am sure one of Jake's new monsters won't disappear in your rear view mirror either, but if you think so why not challenge him?

comparing a stock 411 engine in a heavy 411 to a 2270 "D" making a solid 160BHP no matter how hot it is, is like comparing a stock 1600 to a 2332TI!!!!

I just finished an F Production 914 engine, little baby is only 1800ccs, dynoed at 167BHP at 7,400RPM on my dyno(BTW it ONLY has 10:1 static CR), she buzzes along at 7K for a solid hour and never drops below 5 K......


Anyway, yes the BAS will fit, pops right onto the engine, but the #2 and #4 exhaust pushrod tubes wil need to be clearanced to keep them away from the header, else the seals will get fried and will leak like a sieve... BAS is a good header, expect to lose 12-18HP through their dual muffler system. I use them all the time.

The problem with making BHP in small displacement engines is that they have to do it at higer RPM, as Jake noted. Buzzing along at 7,000 RPM causes excessive wear, so don't expect a high mileage engine if you keep it up in the max power RPM range.

That's one of the reasons I like large displacement engines; they can make the same power but at lower RPM, and they will also have more torque - torque is what moves things.

3 days ago I dynoed a 2270TIV engine, it made 130 Lb/ft of torque at only 3000RPM and a max of 158.7 at only 4500RPM. Thats torque.

My 2316cc engine in my 914 made 152 Lb/ft of torque at 2500RPM and a max of 188 lb/ft @ 4,500RPM, max BHP was 181@ 6,500RPM...(dynoed on 91 octane fuel)..Thats a 10:1 daily driver that will see drivers ed and track events for 2 years before I touch it again... THATS TORQUE!

(Message Edited 2/12/2003 3:52:39 AM)

Hey Jake, here are the BHP torque figures of my ex-2,110 type 1 as it was run on the CB Performance dyno with 44 IDF's, 30 degrees total advance, and 8.5 to 1 compression ratio. An upgrade to 48 IDF's and 32 degrees total advance brought a very noticable improvement.

RPM BHP torque
2,000 46 121
2,500 60 126
3,000 75 129
3,500 88 132
4,000 104 137
4,500 122 142
5,000 140 147
5,500 154 147
6,000 156 137
6,500 156 126
7,000 140 105



(Message Edited 2/12/2003 11:10:11 AM)