Dropped Spindles/Mid America Motorworks

I have a Vintage model 2 wide body. I talked to several local VW and Speedster guys about which spindles to buy to get rid of the bumpster that I inherited once I lowered my car with the adjusters that were installed from Vintage.
I looked around just about everywhere to find spindles that did not push the wheels out, create positive offset. A guy a Kustom 1 told me that all dropped spindles will push the wheels out 1/2-3/4".
I was looking through the Mid America catalog, and, it said in the dropped spindle description, "These spindles feature zero offset so tire clearance is not an issue". They were about $100 more that any other spindle on the market, but I order a set anyway.
When I received the box, it said EMPI on the side just like the spindles from Kustom 1 that were $169. I installed one of them, and discovered a 1/2' positive offset. I tried adjusting the eccentric, but the offset was still there.
They did pay for return shipping, but I am still out about $40 for the priority shipping I paid to have them sent to me. They apologized for the my inconvenience, but would not return my money for the shipping charges. I would never make a customer pay for a mistake that I had made.

So, I guess this is a warning and a question:

Does anyone know of a dropped spindle that does not create an offset problem, or is there another way to solve the bumpsteer issue?

If you're tilting the position of the beam (forward, backward) you're changing Caster, not camber. Caster is what self centers your wheels while you're turning and helps to keep them tracking straight when you're driving in a straight line.

Shims were used on stock VW's to adjust caster. Shims on the top mounting bolts decreased caster, shims on the lower bolts increased caster. Optimum caster is 3 to 4 degree's

Camber is the relationship of the wheel to perpendicular. If the top of the wheel sticks out from the body, you have positive camber, if the top of the wheel leans in towards the body, you have negative camber. (Negative camber is useful during cornering and helps improve the contact patch when the tires are loaded from the turn.

To help solve the bump steer problem requires you to try to get the tie rods parallel to the ground when the car is at rest.

Would the caster (correction from camber) adjusting shims help? They move the lower portion of beam out to being closer to perpendicular. They are like $10 plus you need longer bolts. CIP1 carry them along with camber adjuster "nuts".

Thanks guys,

I took a look at the suspension and noticed that the tie rods are pointed upward at the spindle. I have seen a bushing kit that allows you to flip the tie rods. I will try this first to see if it helps.
Vintage installed one set of caster shims, but I might need another set to get the front end squared up.

Thanks again for the help, and I will keep you posted as things progress.

This is a great forum!

Robert, regarding bump steer. You can minimize bump steer by "flipping" the steering arms as was suggested, but you will NEVER eliminate it. Bump steer is unfortunately part of the inherent VW trailing arm suspension geometry, it canot be removed. That said, a properly set-up chassis can still be made to handle pretty sweet.

B.S.

I have a stock VW front end suspension system (1969 ball joint) that has been lowered over 2" with stock, not lowered, spindles and it does NOT exhibit bump steer. IMO, Drop spindles do more harm than good. If you have drop spindles, then you'll have to do a bit more to address the bump steer problem, but it is totally solve-able.

Listen to Larry. If you get the tie rods parallel to the ground when at rest, your bump steer will go away. And THAT's inherent in the "system".

You may have to sit there and look at it for a while to figure out what's not quite right to enable you to fix it, but the tenacity of the front suspension to follow inclinations in the roadway can certainly be designed out, if you think about it and make the proper adjustments.

If you get the tie rods parallel to the ground across the front of your car, then the bump steer can be totally eliminated by incremental (small) adjustments in toe-in. This doesn't mean that it "looks sort-of straight", but that it IS straight.

Also, try reading this: http://www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resource/articles/handling.htm

Not great, but a decent start....you'll get the idea.

Your best friend should be your local (trusted) alignment technician. He/she can tell you where your front end geometry is, as related to where it should be. Once you know THAT, you will know how/where you should adjust it to to make it "better". This will be decided by feel - as in, does it "feel" better than before? Does it feel "right" in your hands and mind??? I always strive for the alignment of a 1970 Beetle sedan or a 1971 Karmann Ghia - THAT usually seems to work. This may take a few visits to the alignment shop before you're done, so better let him/her know up front that you might be back a few times before you're done and see if you can make a package deal.

Good luck.....

gn