Have stock ...so far(maybe some subtle flairs) CMC Speedster and have a big Type 4 with Porsche fan..Lid won't close (surprise...surprise) and ...am afraid fan will suck most the air out of engine compartment (48 dells suck a lot) without some custom blister/duckbill assembly pulling extra air from outside... Any creative speedster types out there have some ideas?
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How far from closing is the deck lid ?
Allen, cut all the interior bracing in lid to be able to mount lid where it belongs. You can see from the picture the hole I cut in lid just barely clears the fan assembly. Top of fan is about 4-5 inches above the plain of the lid when tight. Sorry I don't have pictures of the actual fit...doing some body off work and takes 10 men, case of beer and 2 blonds to put them together right now. Styrofoam duckbill was extra high to let vent possibly fill cavity with air. Think a smaller duckbill like assembly might work but hard to plan for enough air getting to the fan's opening at the back! of the lid.
CMC made this duck bill engine lid back in '80s
I have a CMC Whaletail or Duckbill like the ones Wolfgang posted, possibly for sale.
Located in Virginia, Pm if interested.
dlear...it is hideous but I can put my Coleman stove on it when I go camping...Thanks for replies...Wolfgang, will have a mating ceremony in a couple of weeks...that way you and others will see the scope of my design problem. Neighbor suggested just a simple blister on lid and cut big screened hole below lid opening near license plate area?
kit cars are such an adventure...
Fugly, kill it with fire
What type of shroud conversion did you do on your T4 to put it in your speedster? I have two 914 T4 engines (a 75 1.8 and a 2.0L). I have plans to install on in a CMC speedster in its flat pancake format (it fits). Or maybe do the Joe Cali upright conversion (have the T1 and T4 cooler bits). The flat pancake format would not have given you issues you are having.
@Gary Hafner posted:dlear...it is hideous but I can put my Coleman stove on it when I go camping.
It's you car Charlie Brown. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Having a place for your Coleman stove is the only possible use this could have...other than destroying the deck.
You might consider side vents like Emory fabricates on occasion. Available from Rafael in Mexico as a 3 piece per side fiberglass system.
Doesn't help your lid issue, but would get you much more air to the carbs.
@WOLFGANG, you say "I have plans to install on in a CMC". Do your plans include a timeline?
That's pretty funny, Michael.
Back in 1975 my Dad and I put up a 10 x 14 steel shed. He poured a concrete pad for it. It lasted a LONG time. In 2002 it was pretty shabby so we had to empty it out and throw it in a dumpster. I was helping, and Dad didn't want to part with a LOT of stuff.
He says, "I am gonna use that for such-and-such". I said "you haven't used it in the 25 years it's been sitting there, so into the bin it goes". I can't blame him, he grew up during the Depression.
Tomorrow isn't promised. Do stuff, don't "plan" to do stuff.
@Gary Hafner posted:dlear...it is hideous but I can put my Coleman stove on it when I go camping...Thanks for replies...Wolfgang, will have a mating ceremony in a couple of weeks...that way you and others will see the scope of my design problem. Neighbor suggested just a simple blister on lid and cut big screened hole below lid opening near license plate area?
kit cars are such an adventure...
Intermeccanica used to put a hole under the licence plate for another air supply to the engine compartment for their bigger engine builds, and other people have done it too with great success. And as for your last statement, I couldn't agree more- you are the engineer in charge!
What will the duckbill spoiler or some thing like it do to the handling at speed ?
It will handle like....a duck?
@imperial posted:What will the duckbill spoiler or some thing like it do to the handling at speed ?
My opinion is not much. Spoilers and the like aren't effective unless you're above 80 mph. And unless you have a corresponding front spoiler to prevent front end lift, why bother keeping the back end down? It ain't gonna help you...
I had a G60 Corrado. In the US, the spoiler went up at 45mph, due to the 55 national limit at the time. In Europe, the Corrado Spoiler deployed at 78mph. I modified the control unit on mine to mimic the Euro specs. Only makes sense to put it up for effectiveness rather than "profiling".
My wide body didn't have any notable difference with the whale tail installed.
This thread proves that every pot does indeed have a lid.
Not all lids fit every pot, however.
Looks to me like there was plenty of ‘pot’ involved, Stan . . . . .
Big thanks again...Lots of input coming from the crowd habitating on this site.
Facts; spoilers are "ugly" on Speedsters, spoilers don't have any handling effect on normal? cars below 75mph (lots on "sex"appeal thing? though), stock suspended Speedster kits don't normally travel safely at that speed (full disclosure: I have full Mendola/CoolRydes front and back end suspension with his 11" Wilwoods all around so I may venture above 75 under right conditions...sh!...) , extra venting would be very helpful on big Type 4's in typical Speedster engine bay.
Tentative solutions: small blister incorporating functioning stock type vent grating and custom 3rd brake light to cover Porsche type fan assembly "bulge" ...2 4" tubes connecting holes in firewall behind carb filters with openings ahead of the suspension down to each side of the pan, and as yet to be determined...a custom stainless steel mesh vent opening near license plate location.
Let those puppies breathe...
Allen, Wolfgang etc. ... lots of interest and thoughts again...thanks so much. Did put temporary assembly party together to check fitment on several issues and thought these pics would give food for thoughts on "ideas" for looks and air supply issues. Leaning more to a subtle blister with integrated brake light and vent on back and possible stock vent on top...and skip the vent opening on main body section above license plate. 
So I gotta say this, since no one else seems to want to:
The reason this engine sticks through the lid is not because "it's a Big Type 4."
It's probably because something is crooked in the chassis or frame.
These engines—Type 1, Type 4, whatever—all mostly fit in these cars regardless of the brand or type of cooling fan shroud used. Think about it: what company would or could make a VW fan shroud that was so significantly taller than the other options that it would not fit in a Bug or a Speedster replica?
The cheap, bad aftermarket shrouds are bad because they don't have proper air vanes, not because they make the engine too big to fit in the car.
Now, that's not to say there aren't minor differences that sometimes lead to minor fitment issues and adjustments—there absolutely are! But not like what you have.
So the fix for your problem is not to fabricate a whale tail or blister.
The fix is to get under the car and see where and how and why it's V'd up such as it is.
It may be that the pan was inexpertly shortened and welded back together.
Could be the frame horns are bent.
Might be some other complication.
Now, I could be wrong. But I'm pretty sure you need to look harder at the car, and lower, and deeper, to see what's really wrong.
In the vein that @edsnova is mining - post a few pictures of the engine in the car, and we'll know a whole lot more.
We've seen a number of Type 1 engines with the Porsche style shrouds in Speedsters and a few Type 4 engines have been used successfully as well (Rich Drewek's and Paul "Mango Smoothie's cars come to mind, although I have to admit I don't remember what they used for cooling), so I think @edsnova may be on to something here, Gary. Looking underneath and noting what angle the frame horns are (in relation to the ground) would probably be a good idea here.
Does anyone have pics of either Rich's or Mango's engine compartments?
Edsnova...Alas...the frame was originally had a cheapo shortening job and rear suspension assembly was tweaked from maybe an accident? but supposedly pan and rear were repaired by a well regarded (once) frame shop here for a lot of money.
So that frame/suspension ship has sailed. Perfect alignment but from torsion bar on back must have an upward tilt? ... and... will have to stay that way...Of course a different cooling system (like a DTM) would help...but some of you might understand the $$$ and time situation along with my health condition precludes any further big investments. It is what it is now...
It looks like the wheel well arches have been opened up in width and height especially in the rear. Was this to accommodate larger wheels, I ask because if the chassis was a little longer the engine cradle would be set back along with the rear wheels. The measurement from front wheel center to rear center would be the tell. Any way, just a thought and good luck with your build.
