... or, alternately, you could buy a set of Dellortos from the Samba, send them to Art Thraen, and have something that runs like a sewing machine, makes good power everywhere, and gets 25- 30 mpg.
Sorry Stan,
That's just not as cool as a well executed roll-start - LOL!
angela
That's just not as cool as a well executed roll-start - LOL!
angela
Stan, if I had it all to do again I'd have Dells on my car. This FI experience has been expensive (including having the shroud modified to to clear the FI rails.
I took my IM out for a drive today, to try out my hood lift. Usually, after driving for a while and shutting the engine off for a few minutes (stopping for gas) the car doesn't want to start, and when it does start it dies a few seconds later, no matter how much gas I give it.
Not today.
I stopped after driving for 40 minutes, waited a few minutes and then hit the starter. She fired up right away and settled down to a nice idle.
I plan on phoning CB tomorrow to see what they say. I've also developed a stumble in the 3800 to 4000 rpm range. I may have to send them my latest map.
I took my IM out for a drive today, to try out my hood lift. Usually, after driving for a while and shutting the engine off for a few minutes (stopping for gas) the car doesn't want to start, and when it does start it dies a few seconds later, no matter how much gas I give it.
Not today.
I stopped after driving for 40 minutes, waited a few minutes and then hit the starter. She fired up right away and settled down to a nice idle.
I plan on phoning CB tomorrow to see what they say. I've also developed a stumble in the 3800 to 4000 rpm range. I may have to send them my latest map.
What Art said---my Dells are from Art Thaen and are just as Stan describes. And so much better in every way than my old Empi Weber copies.
Anyway, I'm not tech savvy enough for FI like Ron.
Anyway, I'm not tech savvy enough for FI like Ron.
Jack, I'm not tech savvy either, but i' m learning - slowly.
I phoned CB and they said,"move the fuel pressure regulator - it should not be inthe engine compartment". Since Henry did the install I'm going to have him move it.
I phoned CB and they said,"move the fuel pressure regulator - it should not be inthe engine compartment". Since Henry did the install I'm going to have him move it.
So would I! Good luck with it, Ron.
The IM is going in for a dyno pull/tune next week. I'm curious as to how much horsepower my combo is producing and I want to see if they can tune out my 3800-4000 rpm stumble.
"Morten, where did you install your fuel pressure regulator? "
First I installed it in the front of the car :-( . Now I have put it here :
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj261/sandvik996tt/086.jpg
More photos here :
http://s274.photobucket.com/albums/jj261/sandvik996tt/
http://www.forum.vwacb.com/index.php?topic=2639.0
First I installed it in the front of the car :-( . Now I have put it here :
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj261/sandvik996tt/086.jpg
More photos here :
http://s274.photobucket.com/albums/jj261/sandvik996tt/
http://www.forum.vwacb.com/index.php?topic=2639.0
Put the IM up on my new scissor hoist yesterday and tightened all my fuel lines around the gas tank. There is a fairly strong gas smell in the cabin and it has to be coming from the front tank area, or the engine. The wife told me to fix the gas smell-pronto!
If the fuel line work doesn't fix it, check the seal on the gas cap itself, as well as the seals between the trunk and the interior. Ask me how I know.
After tightening all the fuel line clamps the smell is still as strong as ever. I'll check the gas cap and tank seal.
The overflow line from the gas tank drops straight down from the tank. I wonder if I should add some hose and route it to the rear of the car? Also, my dyno run showed that the car is running pig rich in the 3000 to 4200 rpm range. I wonder if the fumes are being drawn into the cabin.
The overflow line from the gas tank drops straight down from the tank. I wonder if I should add some hose and route it to the rear of the car? Also, my dyno run showed that the car is running pig rich in the 3000 to 4200 rpm range. I wonder if the fumes are being drawn into the cabin.
Overflow from the tank? OK, you've found your problem.
Get a charcoal filter from a u-pull junk yard and route your overflow into the charcoal filter. There may even be a liquid/vapor check valve in the vicinity - grab that too. Look for any carbureted vehicle. Big american carbed cars have huge filters, the size of a coffee can. Look for something like a geo, or other carbed 80's, early 90's japanese car. the canister is usually in the engine bay.
Spend $5. Be done.
angela
Get a charcoal filter from a u-pull junk yard and route your overflow into the charcoal filter. There may even be a liquid/vapor check valve in the vicinity - grab that too. Look for any carbureted vehicle. Big american carbed cars have huge filters, the size of a coffee can. Look for something like a geo, or other carbed 80's, early 90's japanese car. the canister is usually in the engine bay.
Spend $5. Be done.
angela
Thank you Angela.
Ron
Ron
I had a similar problem, even after installing a check valve w/ an extended line going to the rear. Finally got a VW gas cap (non vented) for the correct year tank and problem solved.
I fixxed my overflow fuel smelling issue, with a vented (just in case the pressure builds up, not) fuel cap and a check valve on the vent line. This way it can take air in but not force the smell out and it works great.
What kind of ignition do you have Ron
Morten, I'm not sure what you're asking.
My IM is back at Henry's to have the fuel pressure regulator moved from the engine bay to somewhere near the underside of the tranny. Hopefully, this will solve the hot starting problem. When I drive with the hood popped open five inches the engine compartment stays cool and the car starts (when hot) much easier.
Besides the hard starting when hot problem, the car is running very well. I'm liking my F.I. a lot.
My IM is back at Henry's to have the fuel pressure regulator moved from the engine bay to somewhere near the underside of the tranny. Hopefully, this will solve the hot starting problem. When I drive with the hood popped open five inches the engine compartment stays cool and the car starts (when hot) much easier.
Besides the hard starting when hot problem, the car is running very well. I'm liking my F.I. a lot.
Whether a fuel pressure regulator is heat sensitive or not is in how it's designed and if CB warns not to put it in the engine compartment (their instructions say it will cause pressure fluctuations if located in with engine) then I'd put moving it as job one immediate because the system needs a steady 45 psi in order that ANY of the mapping will work correctly.
I'd be willing to bet that getting it forward, somewhere dry and protected from heat and cold will be a big step in the right direction in solving the problems you're having.
Surprising that IM mounted it in there, especially so if they were working with the CB engine guy during the install and setup. If it were me and I lived where you do, Ron, I'd park the car in front of IM's door and leave it until this is resolved to my satisfaction.
------
Edit: Ah good. I was composing when you said that the car is back at IM to move the regulator, Ron.
------------
EFI depends on good grounding at every ground point and there are usually lots of them. Most are at the engine block in this system but at least one is at the chassis. Make sure a good big ground strap is connected from engine to the tube chassis and then find and be sure that all chassis connections are to bare metal that's bright shiny clean, One of Canada's biggest byproducts is rust and even a little surface rust is enough to mess up some small voltage somewhere in the system at a critical moment as Angela correctly said. The glass body makes grounding things a little more problematic but as long as steel can be found and made shiny it's not so bad.
I'd be willing to bet that getting it forward, somewhere dry and protected from heat and cold will be a big step in the right direction in solving the problems you're having.
Surprising that IM mounted it in there, especially so if they were working with the CB engine guy during the install and setup. If it were me and I lived where you do, Ron, I'd park the car in front of IM's door and leave it until this is resolved to my satisfaction.
------
Edit: Ah good. I was composing when you said that the car is back at IM to move the regulator, Ron.
------------
EFI depends on good grounding at every ground point and there are usually lots of them. Most are at the engine block in this system but at least one is at the chassis. Make sure a good big ground strap is connected from engine to the tube chassis and then find and be sure that all chassis connections are to bare metal that's bright shiny clean, One of Canada's biggest byproducts is rust and even a little surface rust is enough to mess up some small voltage somewhere in the system at a critical moment as Angela correctly said. The glass body makes grounding things a little more problematic but as long as steel can be found and made shiny it's not so bad.
Thanks Ken-you brought up some good points.
Ron,
Keep an ear out for your regulator too. I've had several from the EFI kit make a loud "buzz" and then just die... replaced them with Professional Products brand adjustable regulator and never looked back.
I am doing another CB EFI retro-fit for a client and speaking with Pat yesterday, I guess he's sending me the newest version computer, idle air control valve, and crank fire ignition system. We'll see how much of an improvement it is over the older systems I've used... One the nice benefits is that we should be able to wire one of the GPOs to the IAC (in addition to cold start) and tie it tot he AC clutch to keep the motor from kicking down with AC draw.
Keep an ear out for your regulator too. I've had several from the EFI kit make a loud "buzz" and then just die... replaced them with Professional Products brand adjustable regulator and never looked back.
I am doing another CB EFI retro-fit for a client and speaking with Pat yesterday, I guess he's sending me the newest version computer, idle air control valve, and crank fire ignition system. We'll see how much of an improvement it is over the older systems I've used... One the nice benefits is that we should be able to wire one of the GPOs to the IAC (in addition to cold start) and tie it tot he AC clutch to keep the motor from kicking down with AC draw.
The fuel pump itself will be critical to the reliable and consistent operation of this system since it is the only mechanism for pressurizing the whole thing. Be sure, according to the instructions in the CB site, that the fuel pump is mounted horizontally and close to the fuel tank. The system provides 1/2" feed hose from the tank and a larger than stock outlet bung for the tank. These must be used as trying to get enough fuel to the pump with OEM 1/4" or even 3/8" hose risks an early pump failure, again according to the instruction which reads:
"NOTE: The fuel pump must be mounted in the horizontal position. Mounting the fuel pump vertically will damage it. Do not mount the pump at the rear of the vehicle. The fuel pump is
designed to be gravity fed from the tank. Trying to pull the fuel through the small diameter stock fuel line will compromise the efficiency of the pump and cause it to run hot or cause it to fail."
Frankly, this system would make me nervous and I'd likely carry a spare fuel pump and fuel regulator anywhere I went. 45 psi is a pretty high level and it requires top quality parts for solid pressure regulation. The whole thing will be dead in the water if either fail.
Ron, Cory's changout to a proven regulator is a good idea, and if you can find out some info on the system supplied fuel pump it might turn out that it's another candidate for a swap. I know that kind of thing isn't what you want to hear after dropping the coin for this system but the truth is that it's very reasonably priced. There are pumps alone that cost more than this entire system.
"NOTE: The fuel pump must be mounted in the horizontal position. Mounting the fuel pump vertically will damage it. Do not mount the pump at the rear of the vehicle. The fuel pump is
designed to be gravity fed from the tank. Trying to pull the fuel through the small diameter stock fuel line will compromise the efficiency of the pump and cause it to run hot or cause it to fail."
Frankly, this system would make me nervous and I'd likely carry a spare fuel pump and fuel regulator anywhere I went. 45 psi is a pretty high level and it requires top quality parts for solid pressure regulation. The whole thing will be dead in the water if either fail.
Ron, Cory's changout to a proven regulator is a good idea, and if you can find out some info on the system supplied fuel pump it might turn out that it's another candidate for a swap. I know that kind of thing isn't what you want to hear after dropping the coin for this system but the truth is that it's very reasonably priced. There are pumps alone that cost more than this entire system.
Sorry about that one, Carey - I called you Cory.
I've been called worse.
Carey, I have the latest CB fuel pressure regulator. Hopefully, it will be problem free.
Ken, all my fuel lines are steel or braided steel. No rubber.
Ken, all my fuel lines are steel or braided steel. No rubber.
Ron,
Your signature profile says "1984 Intermeccanica", your photos show both your current color and a cream colored car.
I've been curious to know if the two colors shown are/were of one car and whether Intermeccanica repainted your car for you?
(If so, the new color is a big improvement, IMO)
Your signature profile says "1984 Intermeccanica", your photos show both your current color and a cream colored car.
I've been curious to know if the two colors shown are/were of one car and whether Intermeccanica repainted your car for you?
(If so, the new color is a big improvement, IMO)
I originally bought the car in 1999 (it was white with a red interior). I sold it four years later to a lady helicopter pilot. Three years later she phoned me to ask if I wanted to buy the car back. The car had suffered a serious engine fire and was a write-off. I bought the car and worked on it for the next couple of years. Around this time a good friend of mine lost his fight with cancer and I decided that life was too short to dick around. I decided to have the car done right and let Henry to the restoration.
Ken, Here's Ron's rebuild thread. Truly a fantastic transformation!
http://speedsterowners.com/forum/readmsg.asp?t=18032
~WB
http://speedsterowners.com/forum/readmsg.asp?t=18032
~WB
So Henry redid it from it's burnt condition? That'd be quite an undertaking I imagine, and not inexpensive. Well worth it too from what I see, although for some reason due to the odd login/out of this site your link, Bill, didn't get me there. I'll do a runthrough on Ron's posts and find it, so no need of further efforts in my behalf, OK? It'll be enough to know that such a thread exists and I'll find it.
There's nothing so serious wrong with my car at all. I may buy more power one day but other than that I'm doing any details I feel like during this winter.
The one thing, though, is that with it's beautiful red leather I'd prefer the car to be Seal grey, or one of the other OEM dark grey non-mettalic colors by whatever nomenclature of the day. The hang up is that the IM paintjob that's on the car now is flawless and so well done that I wouldn't trust anyone but Henry's crew to repaint for me. Except for a black lacquer job that was on a mild streetrod 1957 Chevy I once bought for investment and sold I've never seen such nice paint/body work except at custom car shows and the like.
There's nothing so serious wrong with my car at all. I may buy more power one day but other than that I'm doing any details I feel like during this winter.
The one thing, though, is that with it's beautiful red leather I'd prefer the car to be Seal grey, or one of the other OEM dark grey non-mettalic colors by whatever nomenclature of the day. The hang up is that the IM paintjob that's on the car now is flawless and so well done that I wouldn't trust anyone but Henry's crew to repaint for me. Except for a black lacquer job that was on a mild streetrod 1957 Chevy I once bought for investment and sold I've never seen such nice paint/body work except at custom car shows and the like.
Try putting www. in front of the link to avoid logging in again.
Ken, add www. before "speedsterowners" in the link.
On the way home from Henry's I stopped off for gas. Much to my dismay, the car is still hard to start when it's warm/hot. Obviously, moving the fuel pressure regulator didn't entirely solve my hot starting problem. Over the winter I may try covering the fuel lines with some sort of heat resistant covering. I did shoot the fuel lines with my digital temperature gun and the line by the passenger side throttle body read 124 degrees F, which was considerably hotter than the driver's side. I'm not sure if this is considered hot.
I'd bet on the careful mapping to solve that hot start problem. There is a facility within the CB listing of the system by which you can link into a provided site using a laptop while in or around the car and through which CB's people, probably their engine guy, can work with you while actually seeing the parameters of your injection on their screens.
I think ythat now it's time to investigate that linkup service and let them set you up with a rich cold mixture and a vapor thin hot mixture so as to resolve all of this once and for all. You've accomplished the correct installation. Adjusting the system to your ambiance is the next step to success.
One of the keys to the successful use of the Megasquirt systems is the ability to find exactly the mapping setup no matter what used injectors, throttle body, engine size, and ambient conditions the system is faced with. It sounds from their website descriptions as though CB is offering to enable users in the same sorts of ways with their system. By providing a complete system they remove the need for a user to shop junkyards and dealer counters to obtain the associated parts that will, or might, work on their engine.
The great thing about FI is it's ability to adjust to most any condition imaginable whether it's arctic cold, desert hot, or something in between. Modern cars use elaborate onboard computing to make adjustments invisible to the operator; the less costly systems do away with the computing and allow for user adjustments. Owners have to know more, but they don't have to know the near impossibility of getting a Ford system to work on a Chevy engine using Ford OEM parts.
(hmmm, maybe I'll shoot an invoice to CB for consulting or counceling fees...:D )
I think ythat now it's time to investigate that linkup service and let them set you up with a rich cold mixture and a vapor thin hot mixture so as to resolve all of this once and for all. You've accomplished the correct installation. Adjusting the system to your ambiance is the next step to success.
One of the keys to the successful use of the Megasquirt systems is the ability to find exactly the mapping setup no matter what used injectors, throttle body, engine size, and ambient conditions the system is faced with. It sounds from their website descriptions as though CB is offering to enable users in the same sorts of ways with their system. By providing a complete system they remove the need for a user to shop junkyards and dealer counters to obtain the associated parts that will, or might, work on their engine.
The great thing about FI is it's ability to adjust to most any condition imaginable whether it's arctic cold, desert hot, or something in between. Modern cars use elaborate onboard computing to make adjustments invisible to the operator; the less costly systems do away with the computing and allow for user adjustments. Owners have to know more, but they don't have to know the near impossibility of getting a Ford system to work on a Chevy engine using Ford OEM parts.
(hmmm, maybe I'll shoot an invoice to CB for consulting or counceling fees...:D )
Well sheesh, let's post a working link, eh Bill? .... LOL!
https://www.speedsterowners.com/forum/readmsg.asp?t=18032
Ron, I've seen the last 50 of your posts, in particular the business of the broken ring (IMO the result of an innattentive or hurried engine assembler). You've been through a hell with your car. I'm not sure that I'd have had your perseverance but I'm probably older than you are - closer to the reality of mortality. Anyway, my hat's off to you, and have come to want very much to see you find the perfect car you've set out to own.
With that I'd say that you're very close now, if a little mapping is all it needs. That's the fine point of fuel injection, confusing but not really so difficult.
https://www.speedsterowners.com/forum/readmsg.asp?t=18032
Ron, I've seen the last 50 of your posts, in particular the business of the broken ring (IMO the result of an innattentive or hurried engine assembler). You've been through a hell with your car. I'm not sure that I'd have had your perseverance but I'm probably older than you are - closer to the reality of mortality. Anyway, my hat's off to you, and have come to want very much to see you find the perfect car you've set out to own.
With that I'd say that you're very close now, if a little mapping is all it needs. That's the fine point of fuel injection, confusing but not really so difficult.
Ken's post made me think. I'm not that familiar with the CB software, but IIRC, there are provisions for temp factor, right?
I have a programmable ignition system and farting around with the ignition map makes a HUGE difference.
have you tried changing your ignition map to factor in hot starts? (sorry if you covered this already in the above posts - there are so many :) )
I have a programmable ignition system and farting around with the ignition map makes a HUGE difference.
have you tried changing your ignition map to factor in hot starts? (sorry if you covered this already in the above posts - there are so many :) )
Yesterday I canceled my insurance and put the IM in storage for the winter. When I put the car back on the road in April I'll contact CB about my hot starting issue.