ebay Vintage Motorwerkes Speedster

it's a Vintage Speedster...

x 2 VS probably with a huge mark up

You gotta love used car sales guys.

Couldn't figure out the unique rear upper shock mount until I realized the pic was upside down. Carburetors look like Ict's (I think)- so  the "more powerful 1915" has 85 or 90 hp tops. I do like the look of the car, although why we need 4 pictures of hubcaps...

Panhandle Bob posted:

You gotta love used car sales guys.

Thanks Bob. I love you too! 

Saw this VS this morning. I noticed (what I believe) are the "cruzin" side windows, or at least think they are. Wondered if the owner was an SOC group member.

Also the Beck Speedster wifey and I checked out two weekends ago sold today for $23,100 on eBay. (Not to us)

http://m.ebay.com/itm/322397348955?_mwBanner=1

-Kevin

SF-Speedster posted:

Saw this VS this morning. I noticed (what I believe) are the "cruzin" side windows, or at least think they are. Wondered if the owner was an SOC group member.

Also the Beck Speedster wifey and I checked out two weekends ago sold today for $23,100 on eBay. (Not to us)

http://m.ebay.com/itm/322397348955?_mwBanner=1

 

-Kevin

Wow, that's quite the ad/pics/description and a nice looking car. Looks like a good deal for a Beck below 25K. I'm not familiar if you are seriously looking for a Speedster. What made you pass on this one?

It seems to me like the quality used market has recently moved from mid 20's ($23-25K)to high 20's ($29-30K) with Beck's in mid 30's and IM all over the map by age but generally higher.

Last night I sent a message to the guy selling this car to let him know that the windows are made by Troy, and the car was built by Vintage Speedsters, not Vintage Motorwerkes (whoever they may be, and I am just assuming that that name is just an embellishment or a mistake, as I can't find a listing anywhere in the world for a company of that name).

I invited him/her to take a look at our site.

@WNGD we are seriously looking, but not looking to buy just anything. 

There was a laundry list of items that made us apprehensive about putting an offer in on the car (Figment issues, rust, color, not a beck built car, etc). With only 4,000mi, it did not appear to be in the loving care of someone who really appreciated the car. Prior to placing it on eBay, the dealer offered it to us for $25k or best offer. 

I did reach out to Carey, and he was quite helpful providing background information on the car. 

-kevin. 

SF-Speedster posted:

@WNGD we are seriously looking, but not looking to buy just anything. 

There was a laundry list of items that made us apprehensive about putting an offer in on the car (Figment issues, rust, color, not a beck built car, etc). With only 4,000mi, it did not appear to be in the loving care of someone who really appreciated the car. Prior to placing it on eBay, the dealer offered it to us for $25k or best offer. 

I did reach out to Carey, and he was quite helpful providing background information on the car. 

-kevin. 

Ah, I just clued in that it was not a Beck built car. Neither good nor bad on its own merit but something to definitely consider. Still a masterpiece of an ad though 

Vintage Speedsters also hasn't used those door panels in several years.

-=theron

Looked at that car on line but I'm not thrilled about that color.  Granted I am an extreme newbie and I am trying to do my homework however I am seeing prices all over the board out there.  I'm looking for a clean used VS but prices anywhere from 19k to 36k+.  What gives?  Am I missing something regarding the pricing on these cars?  Loved the look of the Speedster since I was a teen and now in my late 40's decided to sell my 61 Chrysler custom to fund a new toy.   Would like to stick to a Vintage Speedster.  Any suggestions from you guys is appreciated.  

I'll just stumble in here as a non-Speedster owners and babble...

Danny: The asking price differences in these cars spring from two main things. 1. Is the seller trying to make his or her living by selling vehicles? 2. Has the seller him or her-self already pumped a huge pile of money into the car?

The selling prices differ mainly in whether 1. the buyer knows what he's looking at; and 2. the details of the car in question.

What details, you ask? Look closely. See the car with the two white-faced gauges, side-by side? Those are probably Vintage gauges. They don't look much like what Porsche supplied. So, less money. The ones with three big round gauges and black trim rings? Those are from a 914. Better, still not perfect. The three big round gauges with chrome trim are best, and if those gauges are just slightly smaller than the 914 type then they're close to perfect, in terms of looking as Porsche intended. Most money.

Engines: Is it a regular 1600? Less money. A 1776 or 1915 with dual Solexes? More money. Is it a 2110 with a good cam and two two-barrel carbs, built by Pat Downs or someone like that? Much more money. The engine could cost $1,000 or $7,000. It could produced 50 horsepower or three times that. More is more.

Chassis: Is the car built on a VW Bug pan that has been shortened? If so, less money. If it's got a custom square tube frame, that's usually more money. 

Wide body or standard? Wide bodies usually go for a bit less. Fashion changes, but that's how it is now.

Other details: The seats: leather? Or, are they the plush "roadster" kind? Those might be more. The emergency brake handle: if it's an "umbrella pull" up under the dash, that's usually more money because it's more "authentic" and it's a POA conversion. Wheels might matter. A removable hard top can add value and expense. 

Cars with roll-up windows fetch more. They are less authentic (unless it's a copy of a Cabriolet), but oh-so-much more convenient. 

There's a precis of Speedster Value Differentiation Elements. It's not comprehensive, but what do I know? I drive an ass-backwards MG TD!

edsnova posted:

I'll just stumble in here as a non-Speedster owners and babble...

Danny: The asking price differences in these cars spring from two main things. 1. Is the seller trying to make his or her living by selling vehicles? 2. Has the seller him or her-self already pumped a huge pile of money into the car?

The selling prices differ mainly in whether 1. the buyer knows what he's looking at; and 2. the details of the car in question.

What details, you ask? Look closely. See the car with the two white-faced gauges, side-by side? Those are probably Vintage gauges. They don't look much like what Porsche supplied. So, less money. The ones with three big round gauges and black trim rings? Those are from a 914. Better, still not perfect. The three big round gauges with chrome trim are best, and if those gauges are just slightly smaller than the 914 type then they're close to perfect, in terms of looking as Porsche intended. Most money.

Engines: Is it a regular 1600? Less money. A 1776 or 1915 with dual Solexes? More money. Is it a 2110 with a good cam and two two-barrel carbs, built by Pat Downs or someone like that? Much more money. The engine could cost $1,000 or $7,000. It could produced 50 horsepower or three times that. More is more.

Chassis: Is the car built on a VW Bug pan that has been shortened? If so, less money. If it's got a custom square tube frame, that's usually more money. 

Wide body or standard? Wide bodies usually go for a bit less. Fashion changes, but that's how it is now.

Other details: The seats: leather? Or, are they the plush "roadster" kind? Those might be more. The emergency brake handle: if it's an "umbrella pull" up under the dash, that's usually more money because it's more "authentic" and it's a POA conversion. Wheels might matter. A removable hard top can add value and expense. 

Cars with roll-up windows fetch more. They are less authentic (unless it's a copy of a Cabriolet), but oh-so-much more convenient. 

There's a precis of Speedster Value Differentiation Elements. It's not comprehensive, but what do I know? I drive an ass-backwards MG TD!

All great points.  Thanks for the info.  There are a lot of small details that someone like me who is new to the Speedsters would completely overlook.  

I welcome any and all advice.

Some great advice from @edsnova.

I'd add that the best thing a total newbie can do is NOT buy a Speedster right away.

Wait a while, learn as much as you can about these cars, and drive as many as you can before even thinking about buying one.

As Ed has explained, the differences can be vast between Speedsters that may look alike at first glance.

Believe it or not, some of these cars have engines that aren't much good for anything other than going for coffee on a Sunday morning. Some people buy them and are shocked when they try to mix it up with modern traffic on the freeway. This explains why a lot of very nice-looking low-mileage cars end up on the used market.

That said, there are plenty of Speedsters out there that drive well and will do almost anything you'd expect of a real car. If you can't spot the differences just yet, give it some time and you'll eventually be able to.

It's something like getting married. Looking for and finding the right one is a delicate process that can take longer than you'd like. But patience is usually rewarded.

If there are a few Speedster owners not too far from you I urge you to introduce yourself and check them out.  If a gathering takes place a reasonable distance then by all means attend.  You really should check out and maybe ride in several before you buy.

Yes. Ride and drive.

Other common considerations:

Brakes: all drums, as original? You'll want at least front discs. If they are front discs, are they the regular Empi copies of the late Karman Ghia discs? Because those are fine...but others are more expensive and trendy. Four-wheel discs are better yet...except some rear disc conversions omit provisions for the parking brake. That's bad. 

Early-style "wide-five" wheel bolt spacing is generally favored over the later VW 4 x 130 spacing, because wide-five is more authentic. But getting disc brakes in wide-five is expensive, and they are heavy. So if you're a performance-oriented kind of driver, you might not want to trade that authenticity for the extra unsprung weight.

Similarly: early "swing-arm" transaxles are more authentic, often come with the correct wide-five hubs, and are narrower than the later independent rear suspension (IRS), allowing you to mount slightly wider wheels and tires. But swing-arm suspensions require some bolt-on safety stuff and more driving skill to handle at the edge of traction. 

A lot of guys convert the wheel bolt pattern to the later Porsche 5 x 130 pattern and mount reproduction Fuchs wheels, which look "right" and work well with more normal brakes. 

So a driving enthusiast will more likely go with bigger brakes and the IRS, and forego the "period-correct" wide-five wheels. But not always. 

Some guys even buy special 10-slot steel wheels with the late VW 4 x 130 bolt spacing so their cars look "correct" when the hubcaps are on.

There is also a clever (and oh-so-cheap) way to make a common four-bolt, eight-slot VW wheels look very much like the ultra-rare, mega-buck Rudge knock-offs that some early Porsches sported. But that is another strain of The Madness.

A lot of these choices come down to personal preference, and there's not a lot of harsh judgment here in regards to them. 

The point is, the Speedster Replica party is held in a big tent. Like I said, it's so damn big even a Fake TD guy like myself can sneak under the wall and not get immediately escorted out.

We keep Ed around for comic relief. 

Lane Anderson posted:

If there are a few Speedster owners not too far from you I urge you to introduce yourself and check them out.  If a gathering takes place a reasonable distance then by all means attend.  You really should check out and maybe ride in several before you buy.

I'm in the Monterey Bay Area.  If there are any owners near buy that would be willing to show off their ride and help educate me I would truly appreciate the time. 

Danny

1961chrysler@gmail.com

Danny D posted:

Lane Anderson posted:

If there are a few Speedster owners not too far from you I urge you to introduce yourself and check them out.  If a gathering takes place a reasonable distance then by all means attend.  You really should check out and maybe ride in several before you buy.

I'm in the Monterey Bay Area.  If there are any owners near buy that would be willing to show off their ride and help educate me I would truly appreciate the time. 

Danny

1961chrysler@gmail.com

Depending on how soon you want a Speedster you could always join us in SLO in June for our annual gathering. Come for a day or come for the weekend. There will be plenty of cars to look at with cars from Vintage Speedsters, Beck, CMC, and Intermeccanica represented there.

Or you could drive to Fresno and check out several cars here as well.

https://www.speedsterowners.com...7#550748956199157287

The following people are in Monterey or very close. They will get an email sent to the email address they joined with and if any of them are still using that particular email address they will get the message and hopefully they'll come on the site to help you:

@Double Bogey @Tinker @eteaby831 @rtmcintyre3 @freddiec5 @356prober @montereybrian @JPD

Folks, your getting this email because someone in the Monterey Bay area is looking to get a Speedster and would like to check one out. Please visit the SOC website and see what's going on. Maybe you could help a guy out.

https://www.speedsterowners.com...2#550748956199180502

Robert M posted:

Danny D posted:

Lane Anderson posted:

If there are a few Speedster owners not too far from you I urge you to introduce yourself and check them out.  If a gathering takes place a reasonable distance then by all means attend.  You really should check out and maybe ride in several before you buy.

I'm in the Monterey Bay Area.  If there are any owners near buy that would be willing to show off their ride and help educate me I would truly appreciate the time. 

Danny

1961chrysler@gmail.com

Depending on how soon you want a Speedster you could always join us in SLO in June for our annual gathering. Come for a day or come for the weekend. There will be plenty of cars to look at with cars from Vintage Speedsters, Beck, CMC, and Intermeccanica represented there.

Or you could drive to Fresno and check out several cars here as well.

https://www.speedsterowners.com...7#550748956199157287

Thanks.  I got the dates in the calendar.  What is the gathering?  Are there scheduled events?  Can a non Speedster owner attend and still participate? 

Hi Danny,

I'm from Santa Cruz.  I live and work out of the country, but will be in the area visiting family from March 8-29.  PM me if you want to get together, and we'll check out my car.  Regards, Jim Kelly

Danny D posted:

Thanks.  I got the dates in the calendar.  What is the gathering?  Are there scheduled events?  Can a non Speedster owner attend and still participate? 

Its a hazing event for new recruits. Here's a pic from last year:

@Rusty S @Danny D

Rusty, now you've gone and scared him off. How many times do we have to tell you, "What happens at the hazing, stays at the hazing?". We'll never get any new blood (I mean recruits) if you keep this up.

Danny, it's a three day get together with nothing formal. Friday is check in at the hotel day, some people head up the coast to Pismo for some hanging around time, free beer/wine at the hotel bar from 5-7pm with a lot of socializing going on, Saturday is an organized (what we think is organized) drive inland and along the coast, Saturday night is our dinner and raffle and more free beer/wine at the hotel bar, Sunday is a wake up, breakfast, and drive home.

There are sometimes some empty right seats and if you ask politely you might get taken for a ride (in a good way), or you can check out the cars and follow along in your own non-Speedster ride. Either way you're welcome to join in on the festivities.

Sounds like a fun weekend. 

Jim Kelly posted:

Hi Danny,

I'm from Santa Cruz.  I live and work out of the country, but will be in the area visiting family from March 8-29.  PM me if you want to get together, and we'll check out my car.  Regards, Jim Kelly

Thanks Jim. I would really appreciate the time.