Greg is doing a live presentation on Instagram of the electric Speedster he will be or is offering. It's in progress right now at 8:50am Tuesday March 15th.
That was sure a well kept secret!
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Ferdinand is rolling over by now
The live presentation is over now, but it sure looked nice!
@Troy Sloan posted:Greg is doing a live presentation on Instagram of the electric Speedster he will be or is offering. It's in progress right now at 8:50am Tuesday March 15th.
That was sure a well kept secret!
Say it ain’t so. Greg has gone over to the dark side.
Each to there own. My next daily driver will be electric. But my hobby and passion will remain ICE.
There is a dealer in , I think Denver, that sells them as well. I don't now their source.
EV West. I think they are in San Diego. Check them on You Tube. They do conversions.
@Panhandle Bob posted:There is a dealer in , I think Denver, that sells them as well. I don't now their source.
I think they use EV West components. Don’t know the source of the body/frames.
IIRC, the original EV West car was a CMC refit. Don’t know what they use for production runs. I would guess Vintage since they’re in the neighborhood.
Ask Troy.
It was in his show room several weeks ago when I visited and it looked complete. I just assumed it was for showing the possibility. I see his current video shows a license plate, so maybe pre-owned?
Greg builds the car and sends it to momentmotors for the electrical conversion according to his Instagram post.
That car has been in existence for 2+ years. Plenty of time to work out the bugs.
-=theron
You'll see this trend more and more in the replica world, especially with the limitations of the small volume act when it comes to ICE motors. EV will be the easiest way for some to get their foot in the door, plus the demand for EV is real. There have always been inquiries for EV but when you talk price most went away, until the last few years.
As of Monday our waiting list (of cars not yet started) is up to 160, and 20 of those are EV.
We've built quite a few over the years, and are finishing up some of the more "EV West' level builds currently, while we continue to develop it into something far more advanced than the DIY EV conversion kits... We now have a full time EV tech on staff, stolen form one of the majors. ;-) It's still not my "cup of tea" but I do have some level of excitement watching it advance from a electric motor mated to a VW trans, into direct drive w/ modern suspension cloaked in a Speedster body.
hopefully i'll be toooo old to drive when "we the people" are FORCED to drive "plug in autos"....kewl speedsters or otherwise...until then?.....VROOM VROOM for me....still a semi-free country.....so if high voltage is your thing?....let 'er rip , tatar chip!!...
.....just IMHO
I don't care if mileage and performance are top shelf.
Sports/hobby/fun/weekend cars need to sound and feel a certain way. Leave the electrics to your commuter car. jmo
I believe Vintage Motorcars of California is using Moment Motor Company's products (https://www.momentmotors.com/) which is essentially a Hyper9 motor coupled to a VW transmission using a custom aluminum plate. This is very similar to what EV West offers and is a nice solution especially for retro modifications.
Chesil's new electric Speedster (https://chesil.co.uk/electric-chesil-e/) is built from the ground up with a new chassis and electric powertrain similar to production EV cars. Their new chassis also accommodates combustion engines so batteries are located in the back and front as opposed to the floor bed. The latter would be awesome if the chassis was strictly for electric.
I do not know what Beck is doing and it would be nice if they offered more details on their website!
For those who also like MGB roadsters, check out the company below. I think what they did is even more amazing than Chesil!
RBW MGB Roadster : https://rbwevcars.com/models-rbw-roadster-gt/
@SpeedNW posted:I do not know what Beck is doing and it would be nice if they offered more details on their website!
To date they have all been similar to the EV West and Moment platforms, our custom battery boxes, Tesla batteries, modified Tesla battery cooling system, Orion controller. It works fine, and it's neat to shift through the gears and retain some sense of sports car in that regard. As for what we have coming down the pipeline, we haven't published anything about it and this forum (and FB) is the only place I've even mentioned it. I won't publish anything about it on our website until its fully tested and I'm happy. I will share that, yes, it is purpose built chassis and suspension, which shouldn't be a surprise since that's what we do...
@WNGD posted:I don't care if mileage and performance are top shelf.
Sports/hobby/fun/weekend cars need to sound and feel a certain way. Leave the electrics to your commuter car. jmo
It’s kind of funny. I’m as traditionalist as they come. (Wide Fives, AC means air cooled not air conditioning! Exhaust is the only “sound” I need!) But I would love an electric Speedster.
@chines1 posted:You'll see this trend more and more in the replica world, especially with the limitations of the small volume act when it comes to ICE motors. EV will be the easiest way for some to get their foot in the door, plus the demand for EV is real. There have always been inquiries for EV but when you talk price most went away, until the last few years.
As of Monday our waiting list (of cars not yet started) is up to 160, and 20 of those are EV.
Interesting, Carey. I wouldn't have guessed there would be that many EV orders yet. Question: Can you summarize the impact of the small volume act on companies like yours producing turnkey ICE cars?
I was shooting in the dark a week or so ago that it might drive some makers to produce engineless cars for completion by the buyer. Am I way off?
The March/April issue of the 356 Registry magazine has an article comparing an EV converted 1964 356 C to an original 356 SC. The conversion was done by Electrogenic in England. No exact cost was given, but it was a very high dollar job. The review was mixed, but noted that the cars were probably not the "right environment" for the estimated top speed of the EV model.
The "benefits" of EV (instant torque, very rapid acceleration, and higher top speed) may or may not make a better Speedster. Neither the originals, nor our replicas were designed to be "supercars". Maybe more like "giant killers" ? There will be no "nostalgia" factor with an EV version. A super golf cart??
Jim Ruiz
Westchester, CA 900
I'm with you Jim. I just don't see the point. Any aircooled and old car has a certain charm that is completely removed during electrification.
I don't care if it's a Bug, Bus, Ghia, 356, 911, whatever.
I feel exactly the same way about that electric Jag XKE that Prince Harry drove.
The more of these conversions and force-fed new cars that come out, the less I like them.
In Massachusetts, they RMV and state EPA don't care if the car was delivered without an engine and you installed the engine yourself. All they care about is when the engine itself was completed and all of the emissions BS stems off of that. If you have an engine built before 2011 you 'might' get by with little or no emissions equipment on the engine (cat converters, smog pump, etc.), depending on how it's registered as a replica. Anything built after 2011 has to have everything emissions related as of the year of build. We are finding a few loopholes in all of that, but it takes a helpful RMV person and some fancy dancing to take advantage of them.
@Michael Pickett posted:Interesting, Carey. I wouldn't have guessed there would be that many EV orders yet. Question: Can you summarize the impact of the small volume act on companies like yours producing turnkey ICE cars?
I was shooting in the dark a week or so ago that it might drive some makers to produce engineless cars for completion by the buyer. Am I way off?
We do not produce "turn key" ICE vehicles. We do provide a factory inspection and testing service once you have installed your own motor/trans, this way you can feel safe and know things were done properly, but we do not install. For custom projects we'll mock up a drivetrain into our engine cradles, but then it is removed and shipped to your rebuilder or shop.
There is no approved motor that will fit a speedster/spyder, and the small volume has no restrictions on rollers and kits, so our ICE business will not be affected. Clients will still have to provide and install their own engine/trans and it will be handled just as it is currently.
We'll get approval for the EV side of things, and the EV's will have a 17 digit VIN and register the same as a Honda or Toyota in all 50 states. This SHOULD also be recognized for export, but that is yet to be seen.
We'll be working on getting approval for watercooled Subaru engines and have some major players that are willing to help, BUT in the end Subaru and Denso will have to step up and take a major role like GM/Ford did in order for this to work.
It is unclear how this will affect all of the belly pan builders. I have a feeling that this will develop further through the years... The guys who are buying bodies from other companies or importing partial vehicles from other companies will not qualify for small volume and are now considered multistage manufacturers who cannot assign their own VINs. (The manufacturer has to be the sole manufacturer of the major components in order to get VIN assignment). So for now those guys will be fine using the old VW VINS, but I know there are talks about this already so only time will tell.
Other than that, it will all be a LOT of additional paperwork and headache, and there is a long list of items that have to be in compliance with current FVMSS such as: brakes/hoses, lights, tires, wheels, fluids, glass/glazing materials, seat belts, and flammability of textiles (interior), to name a few.
So... to summarize: (as per usual) a problem was identified, a reasonable solution presented by affected parties, the government took 10 years to study it, and at the 11th hour a competing special interest completely rewrote the regulations, whereupon it was enacted.
The net result is the "guvmint" (for @edsnova) has (yet again!) "fixed" something in such a way that it's far worse than it was before.
Seems about right.
@Gordon Nichols posted:In Massachusetts, they RMV and state EPA don't care if the car was delivered without an engine and you installed the engine yourself. All they care about is when the engine itself was completed and all of the emissions BS stems off of that. If you have an engine built before 2011 you 'might' get by with little or no emissions equipment on the engine (cat converters, smog pump, etc.), depending on how it's registered as a replica. Anything built after 2011 has to have everything emissions related as of the year of build. We are finding a few loopholes in all of that, but it takes a helpful RMV person and some fancy dancing to take advantage of them.
I had a Mass client who had to buy an old beetle, crush it, get something called an "emissions credit" and were allowed to register that way.
@Chines1: Your EVs having a 17 digit VIN will be great for people in California!
@chines1 posted:We do not produce "turn key" ICE vehicles. We do provide a factory inspection and testing service once you have installed your own motor/trans, this way you can feel safe and know things were done properly, but we do not install. For custom projects we'll mock up a drivetrain into our engine cradles, but then it is removed and shipped to your rebuilder or shop.
There is no approved motor that will fit a speedster/spyder, and the small volume has no restrictions on rollers and kits, so our ICE business will not be affected. Clients will still have to provide and install their own engine/trans and it will be handled just as it is currently.
We'll get approval for the EV side of things, and the EV's will have a 17 digit VIN and register the same as a Honda or Toyota in all 50 states. This SHOULD also be recognized for export, but that is yet to be seen.
We'll be working on getting approval for watercooled Subaru engines and have some major players that are willing to help, BUT in the end Subaru and Denso will have to step up and take a major role like GM/Ford did in order for this to work.
It is unclear how this will affect all of the belly pan builders. I have a feeling that this will develop further through the years... The guys who are buying bodies from other companies or importing partial vehicles from other companies will not qualify for small volume and are now considered multistage manufacturers who cannot assign their own VINs. (The manufacturer has to be the sole manufacturer of the major components in order to get VIN assignment). So for now those guys will be fine using the old VW VINS, but I know there are talks about this already so only time will tell.
Other than that, it will all be a LOT of additional paperwork and headache, and there is a long list of items that have to be in compliance with current FVMSS such as: brakes/hoses, lights, tires, wheels, fluids, glass/glazing materials, seat belts, and flammability of textiles (interior), to name a few.
Sounds much like the process I attempted when I tried to federalize the little bike I tried importing from Italy.
“We'll be working on getting approval for watercooled Subaru engines and have some major players that are willing to help, BUT in the end Subaru and Denso will have to step up and take a major role like GM/Ford did in order for this to work.”
Sadly, despite the engine being federalized and currently sold in two models (BMW F650/Aprillia Pegaso) Rotax/Bombardier was zero help in getting the necessary paperwork to me to help defray the cost of certification. That, combined with EPA/DOT virtually eliminating the Small Vehicle manufacturers loopholes, pretty much doomed the process as it added another zero to the cost of certification.
All the rest was handled by the guys in Italy, they just had to install the parts with DOT markings on them vs whatever the Euro standard was (DIN? ISO?) That part was pretty easy as all the suppliers, Domino mostly, made both Euro and US parts because they were OEM suppliers to all the major manufacturers.
My ill-fatted little Vun:
When it arrived from Milan courtesy of Delta Air Freight.
In its natural habitat.
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@chines1 posted:There is no approved motor that will fit a speedster/spyder, and the small volume has no restrictions on rollers and kits, so our ICE business will not be affected. Clients will still have to provide and install their own engine/trans and it will be handled just as it is currently.
We'll get approval for the EV side of things, and the EV's will have a 17 digit VIN and register the same as a Honda or Toyota in all 50 states. This SHOULD also be recognized for export, but that is yet to be seen.
We'll be working on getting approval for watercooled Subaru engines and have some major players that are willing to help, BUT in the end Subaru and Denso will have to step up and take a major role like GM/Ford did in order for this to work.
It is unclear how this will affect all of the belly pan builders. I have a feeling that this will develop further through the years... The guys who are buying bodies from other companies or importing partial vehicles from other companies will not qualify for small volume and are now considered multistage manufacturers who cannot assign their own VINs. (The manufacturer has to be the sole manufacturer of the major components in order to get VIN assignment). So for now those guys will be fine using the old VW VINS, but I know there are talks about this already so only time will tell.
Other than that, it will all be a LOT of additional paperwork and headache, and there is a long list of items that have to be in compliance with current FVMSS such as: brakes/hoses, lights, tires, wheels, fluids, glass/glazing materials, seat belts, and flammability of textiles (interior), to name a few.
Thanks, Carey. Sorry about the extra headaches, but I'm glad it won't change your basic business model. While I plan to stick with my ICE speedster, I appreciate you providing options for the EV crowd.
@chines1 posted: "I had a Mass client who had to buy an old beetle, crush it, get something called an "emissions credit" and were allowed to register that way."
Who-Dat? PM me!
Yes, that's right, and that's "The Nuclear Option" in this state. I think only Mass. has the crush option.
I worked to the other, less onerous option: My engine was built in 1997 (I had the invoices) as a late 1960's replica engine (way earlier than the Mass. 1974 cut-off) and the car was finished in 2001 (ditto on the invoices) so I got grandfathered in not as a 1969 VW (per the original VIN) but as a 1957 Porsche replica and emission test exempt with a new VIN. It has been a very rare thing for any other cars to have gotten grandfathered in - maybe a large handful of cars, mostly Hot Rods.
The Nuclear Option is to buy a pre-1974 car of the same or greater engine displacement (it doesn't have to be a VW), crush it for the crush title and apply that to the new car for emissions exemption. The idea is a net-zero emissions component; One big polluter off the road to be replaced by something that's not worse.
I've heard that the Cobra guys do something similar: Since most of the cobra drive-train components are Ford Mustang based, you buy a wrecked Mustang for the components, remove the suspension/tranny/engine/ECU and everything else you need and then crush what's left for the crush title. Build up the Cobra with the Mustang parts - Including all of the emissions components for that year 'Stang - and "Bob's your uncle", you apply the crush title to the new Cobra and you're done. You get emissions tested for the year of the Mustang.
No matter what you do, there's a LOT of paperwork involved.
And @Stan Galat, what you outlined in getting the law re-written at the eleventh hour to the exact opposite of what everyone wanted is exactly what happened here.....
The new law required that a whole new watchdog agency be set up in the state (which got sub-contracted to a private company called APPLUS) just to look over the shoulders of the state inspection techs and "certify" everything. APPLUS isn't cheap, doesn't really add anything to the inspection process (other than paperwork and headaches) and costs a bundle to the state.
Here’s an electric one that sold a while back
IMHO what's the point of wanting to own and drive a replica with an electric motor and controller..... I can't even get on board with the Suby conversions. Driving a speedster with and air cooled engine is the absolute only way to go or go buy a Tesla, Nissan Leaf or GM Bolt and plug it in. Next we may see Milner's '32 Deuce coupe offered in all electric..........I just don't get it.
I guess the real question is….Can you program fart sounds like the Tesla?
I don't understand it myself, @Alan Merklin - but we're in the minority. I don't understand buying a car to "cruise" in either, and I understand "show-cars" even less. Did these people not get enough attention as children?
"Behold, my possession. I am a success, and you should acknowledge it".
People who buy a car because of how it sounds confound me as well, as do guys who won't drive because it might rain or there might be gravel in the road or there are too many bugs out. You're keeping this thing perfect for what purpose, exactly? The next owner?
I just don't have a ton in common with guys who would rather pose than drive.
There's a magic in dancing your way through the tight-'n-twisties with an air-cooled mill cackling and popping and spitting and roaring through the trees. Bending the car to your will - every ripple in the road coming up through the wheel, right on the knife's edge of traction, rolling into the throttle a spit-second before you really want the power because everything is analog and takes a heartbeat to spool up. Feeling the engine back there, swinging like a pendulum - weighted just enough to help you flick through a turn, but not so much that it always feels like it's going to come around on you.
These are things that maybe 2% of the population even understand is something possible in a car, and even less people have any desire to try to get at it. So instead, buyers just look for competence and utility. There's very little that is as utilitarian as a toy-car BEV. It doesn't have to go very far, it's a cordless tool for buzzing down to C&C. You can talk about how in outrageously stupid-fast blastoff mode it'll run a 9 second quarter (before overheating the battery and going into limp mode to get on the wrecker for the flatbed ride home). Not that anybody's ever put one on a line, but it's still fun to brag about. It MIGHT happen.
Regardless, as anybody who's ever built a car knows, It's easy to get lost in the weeds and end up with the OSHA cowboy car (even if you are trying to keep things simple), with so many add-ons and gewgaws that the essence of the thing is lost
I'm as guilty of this as the next guy, but I'm fighting it. We like to think of these cars as "giant-killers". In the Biblical story of David, Saul gives the shepherd boy his armor and a sword to face Goliath, but David tries it on and discards it to face the giant with only with a sling and 5 smooth stones. And with that bit of light field artillery, David slew the unslayable behemoth.
One could make a practical argument for every bit of armament and weaponry David laid aside, just like one can make logical arguments for all manner of accouterments we're inclined to think of as essential on an automobile. But there comes a point when the essence of a thing born in simplicity is lost, and all that's left is the husk of it - like aliens inhabiting and taking over host humans in a bad science fiction movie, or a tourist-town that buries its historical soul under a mountain of kitschy knickknacks.
I'll never draw the line for somebody else, but for me - air-cooled is the thing that makes a Speedster a Speedster. Others differ, and that's cool too. It's a big tent. I don't have to want what somebody else has to think it's cool. I suppose I can even hang out with BEV replica guys, as long as they're OK hanging out with a barely-tamed silverback ape and his farting, spitting, roaring chariot.
If anybody needs me, I'll be down by the stream collecting a few smooth rocks.
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"There's a magic in dancing your way through the tight-'n-twisties with a well-tuned mill cackling and popping and spitting and roaring through the trees. Bending the car to your will - every ripple in the road coming up through the wheel, right on the knife's edge of traction, rolling into the throttle a spit-second before you really want the power because everything is analog and takes a heartbeat to spool up. Feeling the engine back there right behind you - weighted just enough to help you flick through a turn, but no so much that it always feels like it's going to come around on you."
That is as beautifully written a paragraph as I've read in quite a while, @Stan Galat, but I had to make a couple of changes. I'm looking forward to experiencing just that scenario in September, if not sooner. I'm scheduled for a track day with the Coupe in June. I'll let y'all know how it goes.
Being a man of 'few words', this may be the solution to making your EV sound as cool as a ICE...
@MusbJim That would be especially cool when cruisin' through the 'Hood, low and slow and cranking up the volume on the stereo for that low, slow exhaust rumble as you nod in time with the rumble....
Oh, Wait! Here's the electric version! And remember - Adam Levine (the singer) drives a Speedster!
@MusbJim, I have had a Soundracer V8 for several years.
Less than zero interest here. I wanted a replica Porsche Speedster and to me replica goes deeper than just the shape of the car---it's about the power plant too. My car's Type IV has more power than a four cam engine and has both the sound and smell of a 1957 Speedster. I have no interest at all in a Suby power engine either but certainly understand those who do go that route. I do not understand a battery powered Speedster but it's just not for me. Your mileage may vary and that's ok.
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It will be interesting to see how much demand there will be for a BEV Speedster at what will undoubtedly be a higher price, and probably a longer wait time. Much of the current demand is based on nostalgia for days gone by. The current AC models are at least close to what Dr. P. would have produced if the current technology had been available to him. A BEV Speedster would have to be marketed differently as the only replica-connection would seem to be the body shape. I doubt if there will be any government subsidies to purchase a BEV Speedster. Modern BEV autos and trucks may work for some purchasers as everyday vehicles, but a BEV Speedster would seem to be just as impractical as an AC Speedster is for everyday use. Ah, progress!
Jim Ruiz
Westchester, CA 90045