Element Fire Extinguisher

The problem is you have to find it, get out of car, open the engine lid, and then strike the "flare" --- too late by then.  Plus the lid will be hot and flames flare up when you open it.  Search for BlazeCut here.

BLAZE CUT Automatic Fire Suppression System (specify length) (cbperformance.com)

Response to an engine fire:

~ You first notice the engine performance dropping off ( 4 - 5 seconds) then look at gauges ( 2 - 3 seconds)

~ Slow down and pull off onto the road shoulder 5- 7 seconds)

~ Realizing smoke and flames are rolling out from engine grill & the time to process this ( 7 seconds)

~ Shut off engine, fumble to get the fire extinguisher off the mounting bracket try to get the deck lid open only to find the heat has already gotten to the fiberglass area that the latch is mounted to and it won't open (10 seconds)

~ Fumble with the pull pin trying in vane to discharge the extinguisher into the engine grill to no avail ( 15 seconds)

You're now 47 plus seconds past the point you realized the engine fire (eternity) and wonder why you are holding the now empty fire extinguisher as the fire engulfs the car section of the car while you get that sickening feeling .

It happened to me once ( bad push rod - engine popped through carb)  and I was lucky had it not been for the Maryland Highway truck passing by at the right moment and two guys running to the car with large fire extinguishers ( fire out in 5 seconds) the speedster would have been history.

"  Blaze Cut .. ugly but functional "

`

Do we have anybody on this forum who's car was actually saved by a Blazecut?

... or is this one of those things that has passed into folklore and common knowledge without any actual experience, anecdotal or otherwise?

It's a serious question. There's a difference between something that seems like it ought to work, and something that has worked in point of fact. There's a tiny amount of flame retardant inside a 6 ft long piece of plastic tubing, and a lot of air moving through the engine compartment of our cars when they are running.

I agree with this statement wholeheartedly, @Stan Galat.

You could plumb a FE mounted in the frunk to the engine bay with a Y or tee with a nozzle toward each carb area.

I have a system in my engine compartment.  I think it is the same system IM uses. It is a pressurized stainless steel cylinder about 1 1/2" in diameter.

I also have an elements extinguisher mounted at the front edge of the driver's seat.

I installed the Safecraft Michael references above in my VS.
Safecraft Part #: 50-1025 for porsche /Intermecanicca

they make other automatic set-off integrated systems.  https://safecraft.com/product-...matically-activated/ . Best to call them to get a quote… they may still sell the Porsche/ intermecanica specific part number.  Good quality stuff.

Safecraft stuff is VERY good quality. I had a 5 pound Halon system in my first Spyder, never had to use it. I had the pull-handle type, the handle was mounted in front of the shifter on the center tunnel.

I installed three jets: one at each carburetor and one under dash aimed at the Eberspacher gasoline heater. The cable was pulled when I had the crash, so the system discharged.

I don't have it installed in the new car, I have all hard lines, AN hose, and EFI rubber up front for the fuel injection. The car does not ever backfire, fart, or burp at all. And I switched to a modern computer-controlled Webasto heater. I'm not worried or concerned in any way for my safety.

I may send the bottle back to Safecraft someday and have them fill it with Halotron. I did take it to a local extinguisher place who wouldn't touch it. The bottle is an aluminum CO2 bottle, and the word "liability" was said, so I left. Halon is stored at MUCH less pressure than CO2, so whatever...obviously it is a safe practice.

Last summer, I installed CB "turbo hats" and cone filters on my carbs instead of the more normal (and cool looking) open paper elements. I got the idea from Henry Reisner at IM, who mentioned using them on air-cooled builds a few (10 maybe?) years back.

Since the vast majority of fires originate when the car bucks, farts, and backfires, catching the paper element on fire and setting off a chain reaction, the idea is to make a backfire a bit of a non-event - something that might melt an aux. venturi but not light the entire car on fire.

At a minimum, it should protract the entire process long enough to put out the fire with a hand-held extinguisher. Of course, I'm speculating - but in my opinion, it makes at least as much sense as the oft recommended Blazecut (which I've already opined seems to be speculation as well).

If you want a fire suppression system, there are many available. I'm nowhere near as hung up on a clean system (Halon or it's replacement) as others here. I don't care about residue cleanup in the event of a fire - I care about putting out the fire. I thought that what Mango Smoothie did (a conventional fire extinguisher plumbed with hard lines) was the most clever thing I'd ever seen, until Ollie from the UK did his modified Beetle hardtop.

For reference, attached is what the Safecract IM/Porsche tube/ extinguisher part number i reference above looks like installed,  It has one one spout (red part) over each carb.

I do like Stans idea of installing the non paper CB hats.   Seems like this year it has been all about driving… very little work was needed to the car ( knock on wood)… other than an oil change.

@Alan Merklin posted:

Response to an engine fire:

~ You first notice the engine performance dropping off ( 4 - 5 seconds) then look at gauges ( 2 - 3 seconds)

~ Slow down and pull off onto the road shoulder 5- 7 seconds)

~ Realizing smoke and flames are rolling out from engine grill & the time to process this ( 7 seconds)

~ Shut off engine, fumble to get the fire extinguisher off the mounting bracket try to get the deck lid open only to find the heat has already gotten to the fiberglass area that the latch is mounted to and it won't open (10 seconds)

~ Fumble with the pull pin trying in vane to discharge the extinguisher into the engine grill to no avail ( 15 seconds)

You're now 47 plus seconds past the point you realized the engine fire (eternity) and wonder why you are holding the now empty fire extinguisher as the fire engulfs the car section of the car while you get that sickening feeling .

It happened to me once ( bad push rod - engine popped through carb)  and I was lucky had it not been for the Maryland Highway truck passing by at the right moment and two guys running to the car with large fire extinguishers ( fire out in 5 seconds) the speedster would have been history.

"  Blaze Cut .. ugly but functional "

`

Granted, I can't rate my BlazeCut on "functionality" since I've not had a fire (Thank God), but I really don't see it being "ugly."

To me, the Blazecut looks like something somebody made on one of those reality shows. Like Mythbusters or some such.

Or it's somebody's school science project.

Or maybe an evil plumber made it.

It just doesn't look finished or manufactured.

Danny, I resemble that “Ugly BlazeCut” remark😂 Seriously though, I’d rather have a ugly engine compartment that puts out a fire as soon as it starts rather than one that looks like this poor fella who’s plastic car melted with no “Ugly BlazeCut Plumbing!”

That's 100% cool if it works. I'm still (seriously) interested if we know of anybody for whom it has.

I know a lot of guys here have had them for several years, and we've all seen pictures of cars that burned, so it seems like we would have a story or two by now.

Anybody?

Engine fire 🔥 sold real 356BCoupe 1963 for $600. Fuel line to carb wasn’t tightened. I was In college so couldn’t afford it. 50 years later I got a call from the man I sold it to. He has been restoring it to CONCOURS condition.  ie sends seat from WI. to CA. For seat redo.
He died last year and I get first dibs on buying it from widow. Pic shows restoration

@Stan Galat posted:

Last summer, I installed CB "turbo hats" and cone filters on my carbs instead of the more normal (and cool looking) open paper elements. I got the idea from Henry Reisner at IM, who mentioned using them on air-cooled builds a few (10 maybe?) years back.

Since the vast majority of fires originate when the car bucks, farts, and backfires, catching the paper element on fire and setting off a chain reaction, the idea is to make a backfire a bit of a non-event - something that might melt an aux. venturi but not light the entire car on fire.

At a minimum, it should protract the entire process long enough to put out the fire with a hand-held extinguisher. Of course, I'm speculating - but in my opinion, it makes at least as much sense as the oft recommended Blazecut (which I've already opined seems to be speculation as well).

If you want a fire suppression system, there are many available. I'm nowhere near as hung up on a clean system (Halon or it's replacement) as others here. I don't care about residue cleanup in the event of a fire - I care about putting out the fire. I thought that what Mango Smoothie did (a conventional fire extinguisher plumbed with hard lines) was the most clever thing I'd ever seen, until Ollie from the UK did his modified Beetle hardtop.

I had those black hats Stan had no idea what other purpose they were for but if Henry says it is true all I know is I never had a fire but I did have some backfire issue once.  Pat has his engine building Down pat.

@JPC posted:

Engine fire 🔥 sold real 356BCoupe 1963 for $600. Fuel line to carb wasn’t tightened. I was In college so couldn’t afford it. 50 years later I got a call from the man I sold it to. He has been restoring it to CONCOURS condition.  ie sends seat from WI. to CA. For seat redo.
He died last year and I get first dibs on buying it from widow. Pic shows restoration

Wow that is a dream come true, I wonder if that will happen to anyone else .... mine was post accident forced sale .

@IaM-Ray posted:

I had those black hats Stan had no idea what other purpose they were for but if Henry says it is true all I know is I never had a fire but I did have some backfire issue once.  Pat has his engine building Down pat.

I put them on my car to cut down the intake noise, especially with the top up.

I never had a backfire issue with either filter setup. The CB hats are aluminum and cover the entire carb top in metal, with a 2" diameter snout for air intake for turbo blow-through plumbing, or in our case a cone air filter a small distance away from a potential flame.

@IaM-Ray posted:

I had those black hats Stan had no idea what other purpose they were for but if Henry says it is true all I know is I never had a fire but I did have some backfire issue once.  Pat has his engine building Down pat.

Not the rain hats, Ray. These:

I trimmed them back, and put a cone type filter on the inlet.

Cough, fuel injection...

@Michael Pickett posted:

Cough, fuel injection...

Ahem. Right?

I saw those on a few AC cars, I did not realize their purpose.  Thanks Stan.

What do you mean post acc sale

On Sun, Sep 5, 2021 at 9:00 AM SpeedsterOwners.com <alerts@crowdstack.com>
wrote:

@Lfepardo posted:

For reference, attached is what the Safecract IM/Porsche tube/ extinguisher part number i reference above looks like installed,  It has one one spout (red part) over each carb.

I do like Stans idea of installing the non paper CB hats.   Seems like this year it has been all about driving… very little work was needed to the car ( knock on wood)… other than an oil change.

I still have one of these that I had on my previous IM, which was carburetted.  I still haven't figured out if I need it for my FI engine...

Someone asked if there was anyone who had their car saved by "Blazcut." Last November one of my braided brake lines failed and sprayed brake fluid on exhaust. Turns out brake fluid is very flammable. I had just rolled into my driveway when the fire started inside the driver's side rear area behind the wheel. I grabbed the water hose and thought I had extinguished the fire. I went in the house and told my wife what happened. Within a couple of minutes we heard a pop sound. (I think it was the Blazecut deploying. It was mounted in the lid above the engine) The Blaze cut put out the fire inside the engine compartment at least temporarily but the fire now raging around the transaxle.  I grabbed several fire extinguishers and got it under control.

Long story short, $15k in damage. I took advantage of the situation and changed my tail lights to bee hive during the reconstruction process. My car is good as new now. The Blazecut worked but the fire wasn't confined to the engine compartment. I'm sure it reduced the amount of damage though. I'll try to post a couple of pictures.

Wow, looks great!!!  Love the bee have lights.  I see you are also installing what looks like one of the top frames from Mexico.  I like those.  With minor fitting they work great.   I’ve had two over the past few years… local Porsche guy made me an obscene offer for them to put in his restomod 356s, and I sold mine. ( I’m back to using the standard VS).  He didn’t want to deal with ordering them or having a local shop make him a couple… go figure.  More money than sence I guess.

do you mind me asking who did the repair?  Not many auto shops will touch speedster fiberglas repair in the pacific north west, not even corvette shops.    

don't have any bodywork to do, but I’m always curious as what shops fix our cars, beyond the builders. (to keep in my files… fires scare me, and I figured if I ever need to repaint I will redo my dash to properly fit the smaller 100mm original gauges I have).

thanks again for sharing your pics.  The blazecut must have helped/ done what was advertised in the engine compartment… the damage to your car looked manageable.

cheers,

The top frame is original Beck. I'm pulling a blank on the body shop. Haggerty recommended them and they were within 10 miles of me. I pulled the engine before taking the car for body work. Then I put the engine back in and took it somewhere else for the wiring work. I could have let the body shop do all that for me but I wanted to be in control of everything as much as possible.

I'll let you know the name of the body shop.

Oh yeah, I also added the lovers. BECK sent me the deck lid.

looking at the blazcut ( https://blazecut.com/wp-conten...es-Brochure-A4-1.pdf)

which length is the best for the speedster?

and it is best to get one with a pressure switch?

Carlos

@Carlos P posted:

looking at the blazcut ( https://blazecut.com/wp-conten...es-Brochure-A4-1.pdf)

which length is the best for the speedster?

and it is best to get one with a pressure switch?

Carlos

You might check out all the discussion about BlazeCut the knuckleheads have had over recent years: Type in BlazeCut in the SEARCH box and "voila"...you'll find over 50 entries. While Blazecut won't "recommend" any specific size (liability reasons, I'm sure) they have, do, and will go over with you the system's coverage/capacity based upon the particular engine compartment volume. Give their Customer Service a call and you'll find they're quite responsive AND helpful. For what it's worth, I installed the 1 meter Model T100E because it was an easy project, it looks fine, it should be sufficient for my VS compartment size/volume, and the price was right. The "Pressure Switch" add-on is new and wasn't available when I bought my Model. Personally, though, I'd have no desire to be checking the system on my phone and for me the gadget's added cost (whatever it is) just wouldn't be worth it.

I agree with Paul - 1 meter is a good length and I, too, have no need for the pressure switch.  I check the tube’s end gauge about once a month and it never changes.   Remember, I’m running two of them, both either 3’ or 1 meter (can’t remember which).  One around the engine compartment and another up in the nose for my gas heater.  You have to look to find them - Most people never even notice them and when they do they think they’re wire conduits or something.

I used cable clamps to hold them in place, screwed into the fiberglass of the firewall and around the nose cavity.  They’re pretty stiff so they stay in place.

I forgot how long mine is but it goes around the whole inside of my engine compartment over my carburetors and under my oil cooler. It starts and ends on both sides of the latch,and I can check the meter by lifting it up a little bit. I don’t really care how it looks, just that it will get the job done if I need it.

I saw a beautiful Indian motorcycle with a sidecar yesterday while on a Speedster drive.  I wish I had stopped to take pictures.

This is how mine is installed.

thank you for all the pictures! @PaulEllis which length is installed?

Six feet

They look like Wings

Its pretty tough, stiff material but it will bend. It smacked me in the face a couple of times. I'm glad no one was watching.