Empi Brake Pad Substitue

The proper anti-rattle clips for these calipers are MK1 VW (Jetta, Golf, GTI, Scirocco, Rabbit)  I have been told that the caliper was designed after this series of VW caliper, but I cannot tell you if the brake pads are the same.  When the suppliers stopped shipping our brake kits with anti-rattle clips, we had to source them separately.  I've had a ton of trouble getting them lately so we are looking into making a batch of them ourselves...

chines1 posted:

The proper anti-rattle clips for these calipers are MK1 VW (Jetta, Golf, GTI, Scirocco, Rabbit)  I have been told that the caliper was designed after this series of VW caliper, but I cannot tell you if the brake pads are the same.  When the suppliers stopped shipping our brake kits with anti-rattle clips, we had to source them separately.  I've had a ton of trouble getting them lately so we are looking into making a batch of them ourselves...

Hey Carey
What are you guys doing to prevent the squeal?  Do the kits you uses come with any kind of slims?  I don't hear any rattle when we hit bumps, it more the squeal when we hit the brakes.

Squeal has only been an issue on a couple of cars.  The majority of those were corrected by beveling the edges of the pads and making sure the caliper bracket/caliper was true to the rotor (MANY of them are twisted slightly)

I do have one client (local) who has squeal that has returned a few times, no matter what we do.  I did some work on his car Sunday and we discussed the next step, which will be new pads.  I ordered a set of Bosch quiet pads and he got a set of Hawk pads from his work.  It'll be a week or two before we have time to swap them out, but I can let you know what I find.

I haven't changed mine out yet but I bought a set of ceramic pads. I had ceramic pads put on my Toyota years ago and these have produced superior results compared to the semi metallic pads. 

chines1 posted:

Squeal has only been an issue on a couple of cars.  The majority of those were corrected by beveling the edges of the pads and making sure the caliper bracket/caliper was true to the rotor (MANY of them are twisted slightly)

I do have one client (local) who has squeal that has returned a few times, no matter what we do.  I did some work on his car Sunday and we discussed the next step, which will be new pads.  I ordered a set of Bosch quiet pads and he got a set of Hawk pads from his work.  It'll be a week or two before we have time to swap them out, but I can let you know what I find.

Carey

do you have the part number for the bosch and hawk pads?  I have had no luck in the cross referencing.

The OE # is 191698151

I am trying the Bosch BP280A.  Some sites show it is the same fitment as MK1, while others don't list it as compatible, so we'll see.

The Hawk number he found is HB189N-595  

The Bosch pads fit the caliper and rotor well.  I'll be testing them in the coming weeks.

chines1 posted:

The Bosch pads fit the caliper and rotor well.  I'll be testing them in the coming weeks.

 

That is great news Carey.  I had a set of the next grade up pads from empi (22-2994) laying around. I don't think they are ceramic, package doesn't specify ( I purchased the SBS Brake Pad Shims 9500-PU and stuck them to back of the pads and so far no squeal.  The shims a very thin cushions/rubber of some kind.  Brake does not seem to be effected.

thanks for updated me on the Bosch. Hope they work.  

I am very pleased with the Hawk HPS pads I just put on the BMW.  I went that route because the brand was highly recommended by some of my track day friends.  Too bad I am not going to get to try them out at our planned Monday track day.  Damn you, Matthew!!

Lane, speaking of track days, I'll be taking my 128i vert to the track this month.  The group that owns the BMW dealership I bought my car from recently built a track and gives people who purchased cars from their BMW/Audi/Mercedes dealerships a free track day.

With stock tires and brake pads I won't push the car and we'll probably have follow a leader and with no passing allowed.

I'll be happy driving at 7/10.  Fun just to be out there again.  I just hope it doesn't rain.  I've done a couple of track days in the rain and hated it.  Went home early both days.

If I really, really enjoy myself I could become a track member.  Only costs $50,000.

You'll have great fun, even at 7/10.  It'd be MORE fun at 9/10, but you won't be able to do that without a rollbar or a roof.  I only recently upgraded brake pads, and I have better than stock tires, but it's 99.9% stock and I love it.

My track Miata had DOT racing tires they they had amazing grip.

Its been a whole lot of time scents the last post,  I have a set of EMPI disk breaks on my Speedster and they squeal like a cheap door hinge..   Whats the answer to stop the squeal ?  Hawk?  Bosch?  Thanks guys,,   Robby..

Clean the rotors with brake cleaner and clean, lint-free rags. Get new pads and chamfer them as said above.

Install pads with hi-temp RTV on the back of the pads, only if you don't have the correct clips. Push the brake pedal down and block it that way for 24 hours.

Go out and bed the pads in: three stops from 80, three stops from 60, three stops from 40. Then drive around without touching the brakes to cool the rotors. You're done.

Do some searching on line for proper bedding procedures, but they are similar to what I described above. That should do it.

Sometimes disc brakes just make noise though no matter what you do. And sometimes brakes that mostly don't make any noise will occasionally make some.

Thanks, what pads did you use? Hawk?  Whats the best way to Chamfer pads?  Robby.

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EMPI front or rear disks? I've got both and they can have different problems.

Chamfering didn't seem to help much. But, using a good brake lube on the backs of the pads eliminated brake squeal right away.

The rears can have other noise problems related to stamped steel brackets (EMPI also make cast brackets that solve the problem). If you've got rear EMPI disks, let us know.

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Thanks guys!!   I have four wheel Desc breaks I think the car is just to light for the pads perhaps a softer pad, or just go with the Hawks?  Do a Chamfer on the fronts?

Robby..

Our friends at NAPA sell a product called “Brake Quiet”.

It is a silicone based, RTV-like product that tolerates high heat and is applied between the brake pad and caliper on disk brakes.  Once applied, it cures and essentially glues the pad to the caliper or piston and eliminates brake squeal.

If you really feel that you must chamfer the forward edge of the pad while they bed in, a couple of passes with an angle grinder to take off the forward edge of the pad will do, but try the Brake Quiet, first, and for God’s sake, wear a really good respirator mask and do the work outside.  Breathing brake pad dust isn’t good for you.

I've heard that the squeak just comes back after the spray is applied is very little time is that true?  

Robby..

@Rotnroby posted:

Thanks guys!!   I have four wheel Desc breaks I think the car is just to light for the pads perhaps a softer pad, or just go with the Hawks?  Do a Chamfer on the fronts?

Robby..

Squeal is noise. Noise/sound is made due to vibration. Stop the vibration, stop the sound. The hardness of the pads can have an effect, but won't eliminate the squeal.

Hmmmm?   So many suggestions here,,  is there just a clear cut fix?

That’s what we all just gave you.

No one mentioned any “spray” for use on brakes (other than Brake Klene cleaner).  We all use the RTV-like stuff.....out of a tube.... for the back of the pads.

Sure, a different pad compound will act differently, but we don’t know if it’ll be better or worse for you.  Try the suggestions we gave you - They work.

Ok I'll try the all of your Suggestions not necessarily in order..

Robby..

In the early '80s Toyota and Datsun (remember them?) had squealing problems.....  The cause seemed to be friction material that glazed over with repeated light use.... The "fix" was to take the vehicle up to speed and lay into the brakes HARD 3 or 4 times.....  For whatever reason this worked.....  Not saying this is your cure, but its worth a try ......

Confucius say:

"Bedded pads no squealy, but squealy pads no beddy"

Sometimes you can lightly sand the pads to cut the glaze, then bed them in.

@Rotnroby posted:

Hmmmm?   So many suggestions here,,  is there just a clear cut fix?

No.

I guess another good question is how new are the rotors and can you still see the machine grooves in them.  EMPI is notorious for not having a good finish on their rotors.  In fact they are often times shipped out with a heavy machine groove cut from the inside to the outside continuously, like a record.  If you listed closely it might be playing "March of the Volunteers"

No, that would be in the key of G major.  The squeal is in more of a diminished flat 7th.

Not very melodic and also loosing pitch is the first and third verse..  

Robby

I tried to chamfering the pads and used the anti squeal paste.  Neither worked.  The thing that finally stop it was installing a motor cycle brake shim on the back of the pad.   I bought these on Amazon  SBS 9500-PU Brake Pad for $12.  Fixed the problem.