Since I'm waiting for parts to my motor I started thinking about paint/powder coat themes. I've seen a few VW motors on the internet but curious as to what members are doing here. If there is a thread already covering this topic, please point the way.
I'll start off with my air motor and no paint in sight engine compartment. Let's see yours!
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Mine with new L E D lights in the compartment. Progress is slow with the install of this new motor and tranny. However, I think a key may be turned today or tomorrow after a little more plumbing and wiring. Vroom, vroom....
People have done a variety of things for engine compartment finishes- body color (or black) paint, and polished aluminum or stainless panels are popular.For painting the engine tin, some people emulate 356 tin with a silver or grey shroud, there's body color (or an accent to compliment it) and of course black always works. I don't have any pics of it but I remember Stan's engine compartment, and of course there are many others. The important thing is for it to look (at least) somewhat finished without dressing it up too much- these are simple cars, afterall. Too much chrome (to me, any way) just looks cheap and tacky.
Hope this helps. Al
i used the brush on bedliner stuff, impervious to everything
I was going for some reflective light to help when working in there. It always seems like it is hard to see in that little compartment.
I just put a new motor in my speedster this month and I made some aluminum panels to cover the back and sidewalls in my engine compartment. Before the compartment was painted the same color as the car (white). I have some polished aluminum but mostly black powder coated tins. I will be detailing the compartment with little touches of Red. Nothing to fancy.
This is the same Stainless steel that you see in some of the Burger King's on their table tops and paneling. It is 1.5" engine turned circles on 22. ga metal.
Make a "CAD" with poster board first, then trace that on galvanized sheet metal from Home Depot HVAC section, do another trial fit and trim even better and to make sure you can get the whole piece of sheet metal in. (the cardboard is easy to bend and fit in but sheet metal isn't). Finally, cut and fit the stainless.
This could be done with sheet aluminum, brass, copper etc. Heck, we have even seen diamond tuck leather upholstery used ! I think shiner is better ! Also an LED flexible lighting tube fastened up under the lip all around the engine lid hole where you can't see it really highlights the entire engine compartment.
My next project is a Spyder. It will have the same firewall veneer of stainless. I had to get the fire wall panel first and fit it with the stainless before it goes in the body with the frame though. I just like the way it looks and it doesn't scuff up like aluminum does over time from cleaning and wiping. Do what ever you wish but do it right or it won't ever look right to you............Bruce
NIce looking engine bays. @Safety Jim Buffalo NY. did you put three strips of LED's around behind the lip? Does it give you enough light? Switched ? Good idea for sure.
Sort of.... I put a 1 ft long section at the top of each side panel and a block type led on the deck panel that is in the rear of the engine bay. Yes, I switched it and it is a very low draw on the battery when the motor is not running. It is pretty good in the dark garage. I'll try to send you a photo if I can capture the look with my phone.
As info, it turns over at this point, but does not start. I know I need to set the advance and adjust the carbs. The beat goes on, sort of.... Must do some travel tomorrow and Thursday for work. So, Friday may be the day it starts.... fingers crossed.
Bare aluminum for the firewall, riveted, with as many correctly original (or close) components as I can muster, affixed in the proper places, in the proper manner. As far as possible. Body color under the clamshell. Frame black for the frame. (Coming soon: louvered aluminum underpan).
Ed...That little shelf where your spare sits almost looks like a seat off of an old tractor. Even a seat belt assembly ? What a hoot that would be if someone sat there with their head poking out thru the grills !
I will say...you've put a lot of work into your project and your skills are greatly apparent ! ...........Bruce
Thank you gentlemen, great looking motors and cabin area ideas! I'm leaning towards the original paint schemes but the shiny tins keep sparkling at me. I do know it will take time and planning. I don't want to slap a heat shield together, call it a day so I can go out for a ride.
Viewing the photos raised questions. How are you mounting the lower tin? Will 90 degree angled metal brackets screwed on to the side metal sheets be enough? What about the very rear? Use the rubber seal pressed against the inner fiberglass body? I took a few photos so you can see what I'm looking at.
Very important questions VDUBUSLIFE......Heat is your enemy and the more you seal up the engine compartment, the cooler your engine will run. All air should enter thru the deck grill ! Vintage Motorcars may sell you a fiberglass piece to seal around the engine, horizontally, to the std engine tin. Many have overlooked that area in your photos back by the tail light assemblies. It is very important to seal up that area. I used some more fiberglass sheeting for this and epoxied the pieces together in the car so they fit right. Then fastened it with a couple machine screws. See photos below.
Bruce
Remember that (enough) fresh air has to find a way in there too. There has to be enough airflow to feed the fan, carbs and remove radiated heat from the engine itself out of the engine compartment. A higher revving bigger type 1 engine uses way more air than a stocker. I've heard of engines dying in (other) fiberglass cars in as little as 3-4,000 miles because the engine was starving for air.
Here's the fiberglass pieces CMC/FF supplies to seal sides and rear of engine compartment. CMC also has builder cut 1/2 moon ahead of the intake fan.
Times Two what Al Said. I did some testing using a water manometer and found that there is about a 1.5" negative pressure (vacuum) in the engine compartment at about 70mph on level road. This is with the engine compartment totally sealed off and no "Hole" in the firewall. I had 0 heating issues in spite of the minimal restriction created by the "Rain Guard" under the deck lid grill. Holding the engine lid open 3/8" eliminated the 1.5" negative pressure.............Bruce
vdubuslife posted:Thank you gentlemen, great looking motors and cabin area ideas! I'm leaning towards the original paint schemes but the shiny tins keep sparkling at me. I do know it will take time and planning. I don't want to slap a heat shield together, call it a day so I can go out for a ride.
Viewing the photos raised questions. How are you mounting the lower tin? Will 90 degree angled metal brackets screwed on to the side metal sheets be enough? What about the very rear? Use the rubber seal pressed against the inner fiberglass body? I took a few photos so you can see what I'm looking at.
I don't see the rear half of the frame that is usually in the engine bay area. Where is yours? If you look at Bruce's engine area there is a frae that goes around the engine bay.
Robert M posted:vdubuslife posted:Thank you gentlemen, great looking motors and cabin area ideas! I'm leaning towards the original paint schemes but the shiny tins keep sparkling at me. I do know it will take time and planning. I don't want to slap a heat shield together, call it a day so I can go out for a ride.
Viewing the photos raised questions. How are you mounting the lower tin? Will 90 degree angled metal brackets screwed on to the side metal sheets be enough? What about the very rear? Use the rubber seal pressed against the inner fiberglass body? I took a few photos so you can see what I'm looking at.
I don't see the rear half of the frame that is usually in the engine bay area. Where is yours? If you look at Bruce's engine area there is a frame that goes around the engine bay.
There is definitely no rear cross member piece like Bruce's frame. I'm not sure what the builder was following for documentation. I'll check tonight where the nearest cross member piece towards the rear is located.
Is there supposed to be a cross member piece like Bruce's on all Speedster builds? It would certainly make it easier to add the rear heat shield/tins.
On all of Kirk’s builds there is a box frame in the rear area. And in the picture Wolfgang included for a CMC build there is also supposed to be some type of box frame. If the box frame isn’t there you may eventually have the butt sag issues a lot of CMC owners experience since there may not be any support.
Search for butt sag issues if you need more information.
vdubuslife posted:Robert M posted:vdubuslife posted:Thank you gentlemen, great looking motors and cabin area ideas! I'm leaning towards the original paint schemes but the shiny tins keep sparkling at me. I do know it will take time and planning. I don't want to slap a heat shield together, call it a day so I can go out for a ride.
Viewing the photos raised questions. How are you mounting the lower tin? Will 90 degree angled metal brackets screwed on to the side metal sheets be enough? What about the very rear? Use the rubber seal pressed against the inner fiberglass body? I took a few photos so you can see what I'm looking at.
I don't see the rear half of the frame that is usually in the engine bay area. Where is yours? If you look at Bruce's engine area there is a frame that goes around the engine bay.
There is definitely no rear cross member piece like Bruce's frame. I'm not sure what the builder was following for documentation. I'll check tonight where the nearest cross member piece towards the rear is located.
Is there supposed to be a cross member piece like Bruce's on all Speedster builds? It would certainly make it easier to add the rear heat shield/tins.
You're going to have some problems with cracking with out the rear bracing. And if you ever get rear ended your engine is toast!
So here is a photo of a CMC subframe removed from a car that burned up. I assume you have frame pieces on either side behind the (what appears to be) aluminum side pieces and behind that fiberglass panels?
WOLFGANG posted:So here is a photo of a CMC subframe removed from a car that burned up. I assume you have frame pieces on either side behind the (what appears to be) aluminum side pieces and behind that fiberglass panels?
Well this is getting interesting. Mine doesn't have the rear cross member and the frame looks different. Maybe I have another type of frame that is non CMC as I had thought. Perhaps a home made DIY? Do you recognize my configuration?
In any case, it doesn't look too difficult to fabricate a cross member at the rear section.
Here are a few photos. I popped the wheel off again so you can get a better look.
Well, that is definitely substantial steel back there! Maybe it was modified for another type of engine? A Type4 with OEM cooling would require the crossbar to be moved back a couple of inches (or removed) as its 5-6" deeper. Even a fender brace. Looks wider thn a T1/T4 too -- maybe for a Corvair engine which would be both wider and longer.
Looks like there's room and potential to install a cross beam. Be sure it's far enough back to allow the engine to be installed/removed and at the right level so that the bottom of it is even with the engine tin............Bruce
WOLFGANG posted:Well, that is definitely substantial steel back there! Maybe it was modified for another type of engine? A Type4 with OEM cooling would require the crossbar to be moved back a couple of inches (or removed) as its 5-6" deeper. Even a fender brace. Looks wider thn a T1/T4 too -- maybe for a Corvair engine which would be both wider and longer.
I wish I could find who the original owner/builder was. I do have a video of an early owner explaining the shocks air adjustment valve location. In the video I can see there was no lower tins installed, you can still see the ground directly below the motor (same motor I have now).
aircooled posted:Looks like there's room and potential to install a cross beam. Be sure it's far enough back to allow the engine to be installed/removed and at the right level so that the bottom of it is even with the engine tin............Bruce
If you look at the traditional sub-frame (like used by CMC), it looks like they went with the least welds need (less labor). The main body 2x4" is very strong - but the piece to hold the rear - not so much. The cross member adds strength by triangulation. I always thought it would make a good rear hanger for a T4 or Subaru engine - BUT it really isn't very robustly supported. With all that steel and triangulation on VDUBs the cross brace probably isn't needed for support - but it does provide a place to anchor the heat shield over the exhaust system.
VDubuslife; I wouldn’t get too excited about that crossbar at the rear of a CMC. All of the support for the rear of the body comes from the side rails which have vertical fiberglass inner wheel well shields that attach to the side rails to hold everything up. That crossbar just keeps them from flexing in and out at the very rear.
YOU have a pretty beefy set of side supports which, after looking closely at them, don’t look like they’re gonna be flexing any time soon.
As Wolfie mentioned, the crossbar is a handy place to attach the heat shields, but that seems to be the extent of its’ usefullness. It provides zero body sport and you could glue a curved, right angle support to the inside of the body with Loctite Power Grab Glue to hold up the heat shield. That would seem an easier approach than adding a crossbar, but scope it out and decide on the best approach.
Thank you for the "cross bar" feedback gentlemen. I'll take a look at it once I get my motor in and mock up the tins. Once I have it dialed in I'll pull the motor back out and do whatever fabricating and painting needed.
I really appreciate you fellas taking the time providing insight. I have a lot to learn.
Dman, scratch my comment. I thought you where missing the entire U shaped back (structure) section. That this looks more than adequate and quite robust!
Well, since I'm waiting for a fuel tank this is another part of the Speedster I've been working on. I ended up making another pattern to fit my engine cabin.
I'm going with "L" brackets that run the length of the sidewalls and will support the .100" aluminum sheet. The sheet will go from the engine firewall to the rear fiberglass body. I'll more than likely make a removable cross bar for mounting the rear sheet.
By the way, has anyone ever tried powder coat clear on polished aluminum? or stainless steel?
Very nice solution to your engine compartment sealing panels. Will your tail lights be below the horizontal panel or above it ?...............Bruce
Long ago I gloss clear powder-coated some polished engine covers on a motorcycle project. Came out great and lasted a long time. I also did some contrasting aluminum pieces that were glass bead blasted and then powder coated clear. In the gloss clear the blasted parts looked like a metallic silver paint so we redid them in a mat clear powder coat and they looked fantastic. In mat finish they looked like sand cast parts. Wish I had some pictures to show, but it was from before digital photos were a thing.
The powder coat adheres well to the part if it's prepped properly, it's very scratch and ding resistant, and keeps moisture out. Clear coat paint will eventually allow moisture to creep under or through scratches and then natural corrosion happens under the paint.
aircooled posted:Very nice solution to your engine compartment sealing panels. Will your tail lights be below the horizontal panel or above it ?...............Bruce
Thank you Bruce, the panel will be positioned below the rear tail lights. How is your setup configured?
JMM (Michael) posted:Long ago I gloss clear powder-coated some polished engine covers on a motorcycle project. Came out great and lasted a long time. I also did some contrasting aluminum pieces that were glass bead blasted and then powder coated clear. In the gloss clear the blasted parts looked like a metallic silver paint so we redid them in a mat clear powder coat and they looked fantastic. In mat finish they looked like sand cast parts. Wish I had some pictures to show, but it was from before digital photos were a thing.
The powder coat adheres well to the part if it's prepped properly, it's very scratch and ding resistant, and keeps moisture out. Clear coat paint will eventually allow moisture to creep under or through scratches and then natural corrosion happens under the paint.
@JMM (Michael) good feedback. I've worked with polished aluminum for digital motorcycle tach's I designed years ago. I never had it powder coated, just buffed it out again when needed.
A buddy of mine mentioned polished stainless steel and clear powder coat. He said gas station bathrooms back in the day used this technology instead of mirrors, I can imagine why.
I was planning on powder coating inside engine cabin a color but the metal look actually appeals to me. As least at this moment it does. Thank you again for the sharing.
aircooled posted:It covered my tail lights.....Bruce
@aircooled Bruce, after I replied I started doubting myself where the piece was located. I walked down to the Manetarium and rechecked, It is under the tail lights. I have to figure out how I'm going to cover the open "triangle" area. That's going to bother me.
Yup, the whole compartment needs to be totally sealed up so that no air can enter except thru the grill. That triangle area should be easy. Maybe epoxy a slice of aluminum in from the back side neatly ?.............Bruce
I have a rear heat shield template that bends up at each end and covers the tail light opening. You trace it out on HVAC sheet metal, cut it out, bend where indicated and install it on top of the rear frame crossmember. There is a rubber insulator all along the curve of the inside of the body, too. Interested?
