Engine Builders (Turnkey)

I'm not sure if Sir Raby is still building type I's or IV's   I've got one of his Subarus  and I don't baby it.  It's got torque, revs and reliability.   I think it will surely outlast me.  It's worth considering.  

Jake hasn't offered a type 1 for sale for a number of years (4? 5? longer?) now. I thought he was still doing type 4's, but I could be wrong.

I think Jake has read the writing on the wall and is becoming more involved in water cooled engines.

TR  do you have the dohc or sohc---I have a JPS coming soon- super widebody with a 2.5 sohc--just wondering how good is the performance--I had a VS with 120hsp VW engine for 300 miles and 3 weeks when it was totaled--wasn't impressed with acceleration

2.5 sohc .... JRaby built with no upgrades on the power .... 176 hp on the dyno   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uemL2Ue28vo&feature=youtu.be  ... 4 speed type one VW transaxle case ... custom built with gearing to match the Subaru power band..... excellent acceleration and high speed cruising. ....  any more acceleration and I would be clearly in the "death wish" zone

like the dyno run--cant wait til delivery in march

Yuk...hahahahaha

 

Not my thing...I like the smooth look of the rear of the car...like a ladies bottom...nice and smooth.

 

Also on the street I don't want to be confused with a 17 year old who has watched way too many Fast and Furious "Tokyo Drift" sequences...

 

Long Live Paul Walker!!!

 

Zulu

What do the Subaru's go for???  What are the conversions mad to the T1 trans axle to get them to mate up???

 

I am not totally opposed to water cooled...I just didn't want to mess around with a radiator and water...

 

I guess I don't mess around with my Scion TC now...so not sure why I am not considering water cooled???

 

Would like to know my options!!  Any Internet Links you guy scan direct me too...I will watch them all.

 

Zulu

In addition to radiators, you're talking about ECU's & a bunch of wiring.  You pretty much have to start with a donor car.  I don't think you can go Suby Powertrain under $10K whereas you can get a nice Type I for $6K.

I like the authenticity & plan to drive my CB into the ground & then replace it with another.

You could also consider type IV, but you're also talking big bucks.

Light, powerful, & simple for me.

I can only speak for myself...I went water cooled for modern tech and reliability.  I didn't want to mess with air-cooled which now-a-days requires more mechanical know-how than I have the talent for .... I love to drive much more than spend my time in the engine compartment frustrated by unreliable parts made in China etc..  I booked the car and all the options turn-key from Special Edition.... probably a touch more expensive overall than a stroked air-cooled but a lot of peace of mind ....  at least for me.   I also received a warranty ....  a real warranty that the builder respects... should I have any issues with any aspect of the car. 

I was concerned about maintenance too, but, besides oil, the only thing needed has been valve adjustments @ each oil change (which is no big deal), & carb-synching a couple of times. 

Now I'm spoiled, though, because after the first two years, I figured out that it is more cost effective to winter my car @ Special Edition & let the experts do the maintenance.  In addition, it makes it handy (maybe too handy) to get upgrades :-)

Zulu,

If you can live with the idea of a watercooled speedster, there isn't any good reason to be looking at aircooled. They are not more economical in the long run, and if you don't have any fundamental opposition to a Subaru, then you should be looking in that direction.

If I were doing it, I'd not try to adapt an OEM ECU. MegaSquirt was made for stuff like this.

NA...I am going air-cooled.  Sorry for being so wishy/washy and flip/flopping back and forth guys but this is a place where I can talk to the guys who have learned from experience.

 

The reason I am going air-cooled is several...but for the most part it is just for simplicity.  Just so much more easier for me to find tricked out stuff and so easy for me to find builders in the SO Cal area...and finally cost.

 

I like Air cooled too...not sure why guys have sooo much problems with them.  If built right the 1st time, they should run forever.  I am a mechanic by nature and have built some radical stuff myself...if I cant keep a VW running...then holy cow.

 

I mean the original air-cooled engines were meant to run forever in the African desert right?  Or am I screwing up my history here?

 

Zulu

BINGO...everything you said!!!

 

Feel the same.

 

Zulu

I like your outlook, Zulu.

 

I'm not looking for a "trouble-free" car that's smarter than I am. I'm looking for something that connects me to a time when I got places by equal parts knowledge, resourcefulness, and luck. I haven't made money as an auto-mechanic for 30 years, but I want to play with something I can still understand and repair without the aid of a diagnostic scanner. I'm a retro-grouch of the first order.

 

... but I understand that most guys with $25- 75K of disposable income to sink in a plastic toy car probably didn't spend large chunks of their formative years luxuriating in auto/metal shop class. They were the sensible ones that went to school to be educated, rather than to recline on the hoods of their cars eating Dolly Madison powdered-sugar Do-nettes. They never learned to change their own oil, or to tune up a car when that was still possible. They went off to college, instead of voc-tech school, and work in cubicles instead of outside or with their hands buried in some machine.

 

There is no romance for those guys in buying a leaky, archaic, fancy dune-buggy with a glorified and complicated lawn mower engine. Plugged idle jets are something to fret about, rather than locate and fix. The "cold-start ritual" is a chore, rather than something to be mastered. I completely understand that. For those guys, a water-pumper from Asia really makes a lot of sense. 150 hp, anvil-like reliability, automatic compensation for altitude, temperature, gas quality, etc. It's the marvel of modern engineering, rather than a series of Rube Goldberg-like patches meant to cover up the inherent shortcomings of a platform designed to make about 25 hp 80 years ago

 

... but I'm not that guy. I really like trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Air-cooled is an engineering dead-end, but I'd rather work to overcome seemingly insurmountable obstacles in an obsolete platform than to adapt a modern powerplant to an older machine.

 

I'm twin-plugging my Type 1 in an effort to be able to run higher compression on pump gas. I may have to go with a crank-fired ignition to do it, but I'm not going to like it. I've come to a point where the patches and work-arounds required to teach an old dog new tricks are at least as complicated as just buying a new dog. It takes me an hour to take the engine out of my bus, and 8 to take it out of the speedster.

 

The oiling system has a dry-sump pump, a reservoir, a remote oil filter with a pressure relief bypass, a remote oil cooler, a bypass thermostat, and an Accu-sump pre-oil/accumulator system. There are no less than 8 braided lines involved in this set-up alone. I've done several of the "Hoover" modifications, and have 911 oil squirters for the under-side of the piston crowns. This is all to compensate for the fact that the Type 1 oiling and cooling systems are a joke. Every single system is just like this. I've reached the point of being 911 complicated back there. My twin-plug ignition system will likely have cold-start/hot running ignition compensation, and MAP sensors to tailor the curve for load.

 

As Porsche found out at the end of the air-cooled design-cycle, there's nothing "simple" about making an outdated platform perform like a modern car. A 993 is a ridiculous bundle of wires, hoses, and valves.

 

My point? A Subaru engine makes a lot of sense for the kind of guys that ask about the availability of automatic transmissions. But for old-school shop-heads who hate the fact that in the daily-driver, there's not a lot that can be done but to take it in to the dealer when something goes awry, the air-cooled flat-4 is a balm to the soul.

 

My car needs me. I like that very, very much.

And there you have it.  The SOC post of the year!!!  Nice job Stan.

The amazing thing is that Stan probably spent the better part of the week on some grocery store roof in sub-zero temps and his brain (and fingers) is still working late on Friday afternoon 

It's pretty simple for me...I'm old-school and I just dig the unmistakeable mechanical sound of an air-cooled VW/Porsche!...

 

NOTE: when video begins to play, click 'Gear' icon in lower right and adjust video quality to 720HD and turn up your sound... 

 

 

i thought you can get a suby engine to sound exactly like an aircooled  - Assuming this is correctthe driving may be the same or very close?

 

Hey Stan .... great post ...

that's what I really like about this hobby, it has room for us all

 

BTW - I have no idea how JR did it but I think my Suby sounds more like a traditional air cooled than a Suby.   I would like your opinion when you hear it at Carlisle in May

SOC post of the year ? Heysusss ....consider this. Stan, I like your attitude but it is quite narrow minded. Typical of inside the box thinking, and I'm trying to say this in a kind and friendly way. My 2.2 Soob conversion uses a Megajolt ignition, a
Ford Escort EDIS ignition system, no "complicated" Subaru wiring FI because I've installed a very reliable Weber 32/36 carb onto a "blocked off" , standard EFI intake manifold. Why did I do this..? because I thought I could. Home building unproven stuff can be fun. There are really no rules, Stan. Any room for others in the game? I don't want to stop and do valve adjustments every 3,000 miles. I travel too much.

 

Your statement above when you point out that the the Soob engine should be suitable for guys seeking auto transmissions illustrates my point. It's a bigger / different game these days. Other guys having fun doing different things with the same type of car.

 

Mr. Blankenship has the opinion it would cost more than $10K to install a Soob.

Mine was done on the cheap to prove a point and it worked. Could be done with a new rebuilt Soob and system for way less than 10K.

 

Mr. Rahn states above that that his Raby Soob might have been slightly more expensive than a stroked air cooled.....hmmm. Well, yeah...he will have a beautiful and reliable engine. But....slightly ?

 

Just trying to look at a bigger circle here. No harm intended. Newbies might need the info too.

 

 

I'm with you Musbjim, great video. Flat fours, baggy tops and swing axles!

 

Chuck

HA HA! Love the look back at the end of the video!  "hang loose"

 

Gotta get me some of that! Love the sound. That's what I need for sure.  1835? I though you were running a 1776?

 

What carbs? 1.40 rockers?

 

That was a sweet video,

Ted

David,

 

What part of this, exactly, is "inside the box"? It's said that when a man has a hammer, everything looks like a nail. A lot of times it seems like guys are reading posts of this nature looking for nails to pound.

 

I'm well aware that it's a big tent, and I'm not banging the drum for the choices I've made. They don't make sense for everybody, they might not even make sense for me. I made that pretty clear in both posts.

 

I'm a retrograde. I know my background, vocation, and makeup put me in the extreme minority for this hobby. The bulk of the narrative tale I wrote (which you quoted) was devoted to explaining that there isn't anything simple or cheap about trying to get modern power out of a Type 1.

 

I'll say it again (quoting what I said 8 hours ago): "If a guy can live with the idea of a watercooled speedster, there isn't any good reason to be looking at aircooled". Does this strike you as narrow?

 

I'm not sure why you feel threatened by any of that.

Anybody consider an electric engine ?

Only if it comes with a speaker and soundtrack that makes noises like Jim's car...

Yup, Jack Rickard has been playing with them for years: http://www.evalbum.com/2363

I like the post...very original and great reading...but somehow I have the feeling that I have just been insulted.

 

No blood no foul, these droids are not the ones you're looking for.

 

LOL

 

Zulu

Loved your post Stan, and was partially offended.  I am/was a desk jockey but want to smack myself in the eye socket once in a while adjusting valves, and cut my hands on tins etc...  My first car was a rusty manual trans 1971 Dodge Colt with a Weber and header.  What a P.O.S., and I have missed it ever since.  I could have gotten a super fast C5 Corvette for the same price as my Speedster and been bored as I waited for the computer to figure out why it was starting slowly, and my 165's will be a steal compared to some 45 aspect 345s or whatever.  Just paid my insurance and registration, what a bargain thank god, as the car is not my daily driver.  I have some parts coming, and tool to balance my own carb's.  OK, I'm rambling now.. Time to warm up for SLO.

Love these videos -especially when it's 9 degrees out. Why do I live here?

28 degrees in my garage.  Suns out.  Top is up.  Tiny blip of the key.  Engine fires right up.  5 minutes later heat streaming out the vents.  Do I miss my aircooled Spyder?  Sometimes.  But not today.

Interesting post, Stan.

 

Nothing surprising, but nothing new learned, either.

 

I was one of those so-called "Desk Jockeys" who grew up on a farm but somehow managed to learn a lot along the way.  I was also the second person in my ancestry to earn a college degree (My Mom was the first, and became a teacher).  That says a lot, both about me and my parents and something called perseverance.  

 

I worked with a whole lot of desk jockeys - over 700 of them in the sand box under my purview - and many of them had automotive skills far more advanced than me - or you.  

 

The guys in Chris' circle (some, but not all, degreed) are so much farther down the automotive learning curve than us it's not funny.  They hate carburetors as too primitive to waste their time on and they're right.  

 

Not surprisingly, most of the technical staff at TRG Motorsports (my only point of reference for this, since I worked with them at Daytona twice) not only were degreed, but many had advanced degrees - Masters and Doctorates - and THAT's what you need to win those races.

 

But all that is irrelevant - we all have fun just the same, just with varying amounts of cash to fund it.

 

All that said, I'll leave with a quote from my old boss, Dick Egan, the founder of EMC Corporation, to some guy in a meeting with Marketing:  "You can say less, with more words, than anyone else I know".

 

Coming from long-winded me, that's a lot (and I type fast, too!)

 

But at least you're a fun read.

One last thought........

 

Some of us are builders, either of the car or engine or both.  We would prefer doing that to driving our cars.

 

Some of us are drivers who want the freedom of the experience and are not interested in the "Mechanics" going on back there, just that it works.

 

And some of us wish to create something that never was, for whatever reason and whatever cost, to be able to say "I did it!"

 

       That, my friend, is you.

 

Keep doing what you're doing, for it truly is "balm for your soul".

These are the words that struck a nerve with me, Stan. I found it offensive and condescending.

 

Threatened ...? not a chance and I'm done with this.

Gentlemen,

 

Somehow, I offended a bunch of guys I genuinely like. I'm really sorry if you found my post insulting, vaguely or otherwise. The point was to mock myself and my choices, not anybody else's. I'll stand by my contention that once you get past the 120 hp point, there's nothing simpler or more economical about an ACVW. There are too many inadequate systems requiring expensive and complicated fixes. The only reason to continue down the road is for the romance of it.

 

I was the kid who should have spent his time being educated, rather than eating Do-netts on the hood of my car. I'm the guy who has spent the better part of his life outdoors, or in some emergency room waiting for somebody to stitch me back together. And I'm the guy who would rather try to reinvent something completely obsolete. There's no economy in it, and there's no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow-- only more Chinese parts and craftsmen of dubious quality.

 

If it was the "cubicle" and "automatic transmission" comments that offended, please allow me to clarify. I'm 50 years old, and have spent the entirety of the last 35 years either outside or in a dimly lit mechanical room trying to stay warm and dry. Believe me, if I could rewind-- I'd have taken the AP classes my teachers pushed me towards, rather than the shop classes where I warehoused my mind. I'd love to be tucked into some nice technical department somewhere, designing gears or something. A cubicle sounds really nice.

 

My "automatic" observation doesn't mean that all water-cooled guys are pansies and need an automatic transmission-- quite the contrary. The water-cooled guys are the cold-eyed realists in the bunch, not wanting to tinker for the sake of it. The point is: if you want an automatic transmission, then there really isn't any good reason (that I can think of) to be looking at an air-cooled engine. The only thing air-cooled has going for it is a mechanical "essence". If a guy is OK with an automatic, then the "essence" thing is pretty meaningless. Not every guy that wants a water-cooled engine should have an automatic, but every guy that wants an automatic should have a water-cooled engine. In 10 years, water-cooled cars will be in the majority of this hobby.

 

I'm glad you like my prose, Gordon. I'm sorry you think there's no content in it. If somebody had told me this stuff 10 years ago, I could have saved a lot of time and money along the way. I'm sorry you don't see the value in it. Regardless, I think I'm done here for a bit.

Hey Stan.  Don't sweat it. If anybody's offended by what you said, they need to put on their big boy Depends & get over it. I value your posts.

The point may simply be that there are folks looking for different experiences.  I was out with a buddy the other night that has had a local independent BMW shop for years.  He is constantly wondering why I like cars like ours that need various amounts of attention here and there. Fuel injection is more efficient etc. I offer no argument.  I told him I think there is an individual balance that each owner strives to have for their ride. Driving time vs.tinkering time. Before buying this car I had a BMW Z3.  Nice car, we'll sorted, creature comforts but ultimately boring. Boring because it didn't need me.  I enjoy the fact that our cars have more mechanical components and are relatively simple.  I like that I have to ritualistically warm it up and smell oil burning somewhere.  A little leaking is ok, it's old. It's less convenient in some ways but simpler in most ways and more demanding of attention when driven.  And my wife doesn't want to drive it..

Debate the merits of each configuration but enjoy the experience just the same. We all are in this together.....

 

 

Jim;

 

2 questions, what shifter are you using?  And it would be cool, if you could embed a tach and speedo on your videos? That way I could have almost as much as you do!

Art

Difference breeds interest.  To all who have posted on this thread, thanks, and don't ever stop.

 

Don't go away sad, Stan (I'm sure you haven't), everyone that knows you loves you, man!