Kurt is an excellent TI engine builder, and he is also honest so I wouldn't doubt his word.
I will say that everyone has a different definition of "It will last" so I'd try to get specifics.
None of us ever know exactly how long an engine will last. It is heavily dependant upon the driver, fuel used and servicing and the like. This is one reason that I keep track of my engines so closely, so I can get feedback from the owners, it's also one of the reasosns why I drive a VW or Porsche everywhere I go and log my experiences.
Also any TI that makes 170 HP N/A will be MUCH more modified than a Type 4 at 170 HP- with the Type 4 making that much power means we only need a 2mm overbore to get the job done, while the TI needs a whopping NINE mm of overbore from it's stock state.
The difference in the power bands of the two engines is great.. The Type IV with its excelent cooling capability and torque can pull taller gears and thats a welcomed benefit for a daily driver car as it makes for a quieter ride on the freeway and ease of driving around town. The flat torque curve that starts at a very low RPM is welcomed because at pretty much any rev when you hit the throttle you have power instantly. I would be much less concerned with the engines HP than it's torque... Any TIV that I build will make more torque than HP, but thats not the general trait of the TI, even in states above 200 HP.
A good comparison is the 2332 Type 1 R&D engine I did 5 years ago. This engine made 227 HP at 7500 RPM but only 174 lb/ft of torque at a very high RPM of 5K. My 2316 Type 4 R&D engine made 181 HP at 7,000 RPM and a whopping 189 lb/ft of torque at only 3,500 RPM as a peak. The difference in these two engines in the driving category is that the TI was worthless below4500 RPM and made no power due to it's high strung nature- It sucked to drive on the street. The Type 4 idles at 800 RPM and has gobs of torque with a ton of power for in town driving and freeway cruising. The powerband was literally "always on" and it's so smooth that my girlfriend drives it without a complaint...
So the moral of the story is that HP is a worthless unit of measure for an engine that will primarly be operating at an RPM lower than 5,252 RPM- The point where TQ and HP mathmatically cross. Below 5,252 Torque is ALWAYS higher than HP and I can't think of many people that constantly operate their street car above 5K on a daily basis... Thats why HP is a unit of measure that isn't as important to a street car- You gotta have torque and gobs of it!
If you go with a Type 1 Kurt is your man-
Hey Biggs,
I talked to the guy who rebuilt my engine yesterday about a project that he is working on and asked him about your question. He said he could build you a 2276 type I with approximately 170 hp and that he could do it under your budget and probably have enough left over for the 901 5 speed that you want. If you talk to him tell him I said hello. Give him a call Kurt Metzger www.vintageperformance.net
Karl
I talked to the guy who rebuilt my engine yesterday about a project that he is working on and asked him about your question. He said he could build you a 2276 type I with approximately 170 hp and that he could do it under your budget and probably have enough left over for the 901 5 speed that you want. If you talk to him tell him I said hello. Give him a call Kurt Metzger www.vintageperformance.net
Karl
Thank you everyone, Jake, Karl, Steve, Gordon and so on...This was good information. I haven't made any decisions yet, I'm collecting additional information from other sources.
Jake has a good point on torque, and we don't normally drive around at 5000 plus rpm, but we like to have power from 2000 to 4000, the rpm ranges we normally zip around at. However, I also need to have heat and air conditioning, as well as a reliable engine.
So, I have asked for dyno sheets on the Type 1 2110 and 2332 engines, and am also getting additional information on Porsche 2.0/2.2 and 2.7 and 3.0 engines. I am going to mate a 901 or 915 5 speed with whatever engine I choose.
I even had one guy here in Atlanta that wanted me to consider a 3.2 with DME, electronic fule injection, etc...maybe this is a bit of overkill, like a 427 cobra in a Pinto (I had to use the Ford example).
I may also see what if Kurt has more dyno information on the engine Karl mentioned.
Jake, I appreciate the information and agree with your torque and HP comments. However, I have to have reliable heat and A/C, and I haven't found anything that indicates that the Type IV has favorable experience with these extras. I haven't eliminated the Type IV as a choice, it is just not the highest on my list at this point.
Thanks for all of the recommendations, comments and suggestions.
Jake has a good point on torque, and we don't normally drive around at 5000 plus rpm, but we like to have power from 2000 to 4000, the rpm ranges we normally zip around at. However, I also need to have heat and air conditioning, as well as a reliable engine.
So, I have asked for dyno sheets on the Type 1 2110 and 2332 engines, and am also getting additional information on Porsche 2.0/2.2 and 2.7 and 3.0 engines. I am going to mate a 901 or 915 5 speed with whatever engine I choose.
I even had one guy here in Atlanta that wanted me to consider a 3.2 with DME, electronic fule injection, etc...maybe this is a bit of overkill, like a 427 cobra in a Pinto (I had to use the Ford example).
I may also see what if Kurt has more dyno information on the engine Karl mentioned.
Jake, I appreciate the information and agree with your torque and HP comments. However, I have to have reliable heat and A/C, and I haven't found anything that indicates that the Type IV has favorable experience with these extras. I haven't eliminated the Type IV as a choice, it is just not the highest on my list at this point.
Thanks for all of the recommendations, comments and suggestions.
The Type 4 conversion is not for everyone. Most of those that do the conversion are a different breed and I always try not to force the choice on anyone- no matter what.
The A/C is not an issue at all for the TIV. I have the brackets needed to adapt the sanden compressor to my shroud and engine with no worries at all. This is very easy and has been installed in well over a dozen Speedster's that I know of as well as Beetles.
The heat is a different story. I should debut my heater box exhaust system by September if the system tests as well as I think it will. To this point there has not been a heater box system available that was no a custom set up, or a cobbled up mess that didn't work.
This is the last component that I need to produce that will fill the void with this conversion so it is very high on my list of priorities at the present.
One thing to keep in mind with a 911 based engine is extreme cost if it EVER breaks down. To only do a tune up on a 3.2 it will cost 10 times the amount that it would for a TI or TIV and if the alternator goes bad- there goes 3-400 bucks instead of 119.95.
Feel free to email me at engines@aircooledtechnology.com for some dyno graphs so you can compare those to what Kurt has sent to you and the other options as well.
I cnsider it my job to let people like you know that this engine conversion exists and is simple to do and to give you the tools to research the engine further- After that it's all you!
Good luck, if you need any assistance with some reputable shops in the Atlanta area- I know who is good and who will rip you a new one so keep in touch!
The A/C is not an issue at all for the TIV. I have the brackets needed to adapt the sanden compressor to my shroud and engine with no worries at all. This is very easy and has been installed in well over a dozen Speedster's that I know of as well as Beetles.
The heat is a different story. I should debut my heater box exhaust system by September if the system tests as well as I think it will. To this point there has not been a heater box system available that was no a custom set up, or a cobbled up mess that didn't work.
This is the last component that I need to produce that will fill the void with this conversion so it is very high on my list of priorities at the present.
One thing to keep in mind with a 911 based engine is extreme cost if it EVER breaks down. To only do a tune up on a 3.2 it will cost 10 times the amount that it would for a TI or TIV and if the alternator goes bad- there goes 3-400 bucks instead of 119.95.
Feel free to email me at engines@aircooledtechnology.com for some dyno graphs so you can compare those to what Kurt has sent to you and the other options as well.
I cnsider it my job to let people like you know that this engine conversion exists and is simple to do and to give you the tools to research the engine further- After that it's all you!
Good luck, if you need any assistance with some reputable shops in the Atlanta area- I know who is good and who will rip you a new one so keep in touch!
Biggs,
Jake is right on the money in his description of a type I that is built for maximum power. My first 2110 was built that way and made max power about 160-170hp above 5000rpms, that
Jake is right on the money in his description of a type I that is built for maximum power. My first 2110 was built that way and made max power about 160-170hp above 5000rpms, that
Jake, thanks for the information. I would appreciate a recommmendation of a reliable shop in the Atlanta area, if you know of one. I agree that going the Porsche route may be expensive, but I have to explore the option, even if I don't go for it.
Karl, I am going to try to contact Kurt about a possible engine build. I like the idea of trying to get power in the 1500 to 5000 range. Henry may be able to get something similar through CB Performance as well, but timing is everything.
Thanks for the information guys.
Karl, I am going to try to contact Kurt about a possible engine build. I like the idea of trying to get power in the 1500 to 5000 range. Henry may be able to get something similar through CB Performance as well, but timing is everything.
Thanks for the information guys.
Karl, what are the specs on your cam?
Thanks
Dave
Thanks
Dave
David
It
It
Thanks Karl, always loved the sound of those gears.
Ok, I am probably going to make some people mad, but oh well.
Jake said "I will say that everyone has a different definition of "It will last" so I'd try to get specifics."
Specifics on what? As far as I'm concerned you can put all the greatest parts in the world in to that engine and if they won't warranty it for any period of time then I WOULDN'T BUY IT.
Thats right, I'm flat out saying that unless they are a large company with a good warranty and the engine your building will fit in the builders warranty categories, I wouldn't buy it.
This Mickey Mouse Bullshit about longevity being dependant on what you expect is irrelevant, if the builder will give you no warranty on the size you want to build, they are as much as saying it won't last very long, or its a crapshoot.
I don't think I would want to spend that kind of money on a crapshoot?
Jake said "I will say that everyone has a different definition of "It will last" so I'd try to get specifics."
Specifics on what? As far as I'm concerned you can put all the greatest parts in the world in to that engine and if they won't warranty it for any period of time then I WOULDN'T BUY IT.
Thats right, I'm flat out saying that unless they are a large company with a good warranty and the engine your building will fit in the builders warranty categories, I wouldn't buy it.
This Mickey Mouse Bullshit about longevity being dependant on what you expect is irrelevant, if the builder will give you no warranty on the size you want to build, they are as much as saying it won't last very long, or its a crapshoot.
I don't think I would want to spend that kind of money on a crapshoot?
Her,Here! Somebody buy Steve a drink...
Steven, if you were an engine builder, would you honor a warranty on this engine/trans?
www2.cal-look.com/video/smokin_cable.ram
PS, you need to add: h t t p : / / in front of the above address to play.
www2.cal-look.com/video/smokin_cable.ram
PS, you need to add: h t t p : / / in front of the above address to play.
I think that warrantees can be good selling points, whether they're worth the paper they're printed on is another issue all together. The stock ACVW motors while underpowered could last a very long time with minimal maintenance, you just didn't expect much in the way of performance. From a builders perspective- a pretty low warrantee risk. Performance increases that risk. Performance motors can tease the competition gene in all of us-from red light to redline and more. My kids have proven that any thing can be destroyed/torn up-I think that that's an important issue to keep in mind when defining the term "it will last." I think that's what Jake meant.
BIG companies are usually self insured, they can absorb failures. From what I've seen, most of the time you still may have to pay extra for that 12month/12thousand mile paper.
That being said, any body got any positive warrantee stories? There are literally a hundred things that can go wrong with a motor and make it not work right. Who out there has removed their engine and sent it back to the builder? How long did it take?
BIG companies are usually self insured, they can absorb failures. From what I've seen, most of the time you still may have to pay extra for that 12month/12thousand mile paper.
That being said, any body got any positive warrantee stories? There are literally a hundred things that can go wrong with a motor and make it not work right. Who out there has removed their engine and sent it back to the builder? How long did it take?
I agree completely, stay with the larger companies that can afford to absorb failures, and even they won't give a warranty on the bigger engines. And I still maintain its because they know its too much risk. If they can't afford the risk can the end user really afford it? Sometimes yes, most times no.
Last summer I drove an early 70's bug with a simple stock original engine. I used it to get home after my rebuilt engine went bad. I was actually impressed with the low speed power and it drove really nice. I asked my mechanic when he had rebuilt it, and to my shock his answer was, "I never have" that is the original owner and the original engine and it had 112,000 miles on it. Thats when I realized if you just stay small those engines can be wonderful little gems. He did have the heads redone at 25,000 mile intervals, but nothing else on that engine ever needed any work. Even the single carb had its benefits in simplicity, but it did eat a lot of gas for the hp it was producing.
Last summer I drove an early 70's bug with a simple stock original engine. I used it to get home after my rebuilt engine went bad. I was actually impressed with the low speed power and it drove really nice. I asked my mechanic when he had rebuilt it, and to my shock his answer was, "I never have" that is the original owner and the original engine and it had 112,000 miles on it. Thats when I realized if you just stay small those engines can be wonderful little gems. He did have the heads redone at 25,000 mile intervals, but nothing else on that engine ever needed any work. Even the single carb had its benefits in simplicity, but it did eat a lot of gas for the hp it was producing.
The bigger companies won't finesse the engine like a custom builder can. Parts come out of the box and are assembled to make the mill, hell I could do that. I've got one of these in my garage right now, No head work whatsoever-I looked. They said that it had been cranked and tuned but there is no real evidence--graphs and such.
As a small, custom builder I think that Jake cuts through the warrantee bullshit. Think about it, every motor that leaves gets 6-8 hours of dyno time- that's a days work in itself. If it ain't right- it don't leave. Considering the performance issues we discussed before, I think that's a pretty good guarantee of satifaction-better than a crapshoot. Just my opinion.
As a small, custom builder I think that Jake cuts through the warrantee bullshit. Think about it, every motor that leaves gets 6-8 hours of dyno time- that's a days work in itself. If it ain't right- it don't leave. Considering the performance issues we discussed before, I think that's a pretty good guarantee of satifaction-better than a crapshoot. Just my opinion.
Steve, just read your stocker story- sounds about right! I've got more than a few years of aircooled experience and lots of similar experiences. I learned to always keep a stock spare engine to use when my big motor broke. Had a '74 Ghia with a stock 1600 dual port spare. I would put the webers and the header off the big motor just so I could keep driving. Damn thing would still do over 100, cruise at 75-80 all day--just used alittle oil. No telling how many miles it had on it, well over 100-120,000 I'm sure;>)
I agree with Steve; the closer to original you stay with these engines the better. I say if you want to pep them up a little go mild and they'll be reliable, give you decent powr and last forever. At least for our use (lightweight fiberglass cars) they perform remarkably well.
3 Engines, 3 Waranties, Big Builders... happy camper.
I have a CB Built (engine) that is extremely well built.... I think, Fred, they are a big company.
I have a CB Built (engine) that is extremely well built.... I think, Fred, they are a big company.
I'm guessing CB is actually one of the biggest?
Steve, No more big in T-1s than Jake is in IVs. The earlier note about the little old shop in bama made me think about... just how big/small Jake is. As far as I can tell, he's the largest TIV builder.... maybe with FAT as a second. He has the largest web precence, the most activity on forums, the only "on-line IV" shop... not quite "lttle" in the scheme of things. More power to him.
Send me a p-mail about your Suby SAW!
Send me a p-mail about your Suby SAW!
So Jim, Ever have to use any of the warrantees?
I always hear good things about Mr Downs and their operations at CB, never bought a motor from them just lots of parts. They've certainly been providing good service for a long while. Something to be said for successful business.
I always hear good things about Mr Downs and their operations at CB, never bought a motor from them just lots of parts. They've certainly been providing good service for a long while. Something to be said for successful business.
Seems like I remember that Jake's shop does about 50 motors/year, 2 actual builders. I would wager that CB makes more-they also supply motors for the Beck products.
I remember reading a recent thread on Spyderclub.com and Pat (CB) was notified all interested that CB was NO LONGER providing BECK SPYDER engines.
Biggs,
You can use the subaru engine or do what I did, use a rotary 13B engine which is ported mildly and is estimated at 160-170 hp with a small 4 barrel. Only problem is plumbing the water works and radiator. Mine runs well and can spin the wheels in 2nd gear.
Michael
You can use the subaru engine or do what I did, use a rotary 13B engine which is ported mildly and is estimated at 160-170 hp with a small 4 barrel. Only problem is plumbing the water works and radiator. Mine runs well and can spin the wheels in 2nd gear.
Michael
oh yeah..and it sounds like a sewing machine on crack!!
Definately not for purists..
Michael
Definately not for purists..
Michael
CB performance is where my 48IDAs came from and trust me, there is no warranty and barely a care when it was determined they came from the factory with a faulty accelerator pump and numerous other flaws that lead to their demise...and over a thousand dollars worth of repairing these past couple years.
How hard is it to call a manufacturer and say, "Hey we got some lemons here... Customer says he doesn't want lemonade, he wants carbs that work...odd huh?"
How hard is it to call a manufacturer and say, "Hey we got some lemons here... Customer says he doesn't want lemonade, he wants carbs that work...odd huh?"
Big and little are relitive terms here. The "biggest" Type 1 or 4 shops out there are small potatos compared objectively to any "non-niche" business. I would venture to say that the average machine shop in my part of the world does more volume of business than all of the ACVW ventures in the country, since most of them are tied very tightly into machining pieces for Caterpiller Tractor Company (which is a big company no matter what your frame of reference).
My point here is- the size of the company has nothing to do with whether or not they will stand behind the finished product. I am self-employed- no employees at all. I worked for a "big" shop for 10+ years before I went on my own. I can assure you that I stand behind my work in a much more meaningful way that any large company I know of.
The issue is integrety. I much prefer working with a small shop for anything, because I'm not dealing with an accountant when the inevitable dispute eventually arises- I'm dealing with somebody who's name is on the sign out front. If that guy will not stand behind what he sells- then he is a charlitan and a scoundrel, and should be exposed as such. All a small businessman has is his reputation, and that's all you (the consumer) have to go on with ANY of the options available to you in specialty cars. Big company= integrety? Please....
That's a big reason I like this hobby so much- it's all about small business producing cool things. You want a big company building things cheaply and providing long, no questions asked wattanties? I'd like to direct you to General Motors. Do you want something different- then free your mind concerning the normal cost/value equation. Find a guy you can trust, and pay him what he needs to do what you ask, and stay in business for a while.
My point here is- the size of the company has nothing to do with whether or not they will stand behind the finished product. I am self-employed- no employees at all. I worked for a "big" shop for 10+ years before I went on my own. I can assure you that I stand behind my work in a much more meaningful way that any large company I know of.
The issue is integrety. I much prefer working with a small shop for anything, because I'm not dealing with an accountant when the inevitable dispute eventually arises- I'm dealing with somebody who's name is on the sign out front. If that guy will not stand behind what he sells- then he is a charlitan and a scoundrel, and should be exposed as such. All a small businessman has is his reputation, and that's all you (the consumer) have to go on with ANY of the options available to you in specialty cars. Big company= integrety? Please....
That's a big reason I like this hobby so much- it's all about small business producing cool things. You want a big company building things cheaply and providing long, no questions asked wattanties? I'd like to direct you to General Motors. Do you want something different- then free your mind concerning the normal cost/value equation. Find a guy you can trust, and pay him what he needs to do what you ask, and stay in business for a while.
Lets, stick to one business and one type of engine, the VW air-cooled engine. It is a niche and doesn't really compare well to other businesses.
In honor of George Brown, I say horsepucky, they cry I'm just a small business owner and can't afford to take that kind of loss.
I think if you understand, what I'm saying is that too many of these people are hiding behind a veil of these are hi-performance parts and I can't warranty them, but like Paul pointed out, brand new stuff shouldn't have any problems and when it does they should warranty it. And as Paul pointed out even the largest of suppliers and builders aren't standing behind anything anymore or maybe they never did?
Thats the real reason the VW aircooled engine business is doomed, I'm guessing the volume these guys do has steadily and exponentially decreased and will continue to do so over the next 10 years. 20 years from now you won't even have any VW build shops? Maybe parts? But the rest will have moved on to something else.
Now for everyone who doesn't believe me, remember 25 years ago when people were still putting in pay phones? Wouldn't you hate to be in the business of still putting in pay phones or building them?
In honor of George Brown, I say horsepucky, they cry I'm just a small business owner and can't afford to take that kind of loss.
I think if you understand, what I'm saying is that too many of these people are hiding behind a veil of these are hi-performance parts and I can't warranty them, but like Paul pointed out, brand new stuff shouldn't have any problems and when it does they should warranty it. And as Paul pointed out even the largest of suppliers and builders aren't standing behind anything anymore or maybe they never did?
Thats the real reason the VW aircooled engine business is doomed, I'm guessing the volume these guys do has steadily and exponentially decreased and will continue to do so over the next 10 years. 20 years from now you won't even have any VW build shops? Maybe parts? But the rest will have moved on to something else.
Now for everyone who doesn't believe me, remember 25 years ago when people were still putting in pay phones? Wouldn't you hate to be in the business of still putting in pay phones or building them?
Robert, back on the exact point, you are asking for a lot of trouble if you get an engine that is too big.
I just made a 5,000 character post on this, but the forum would not accept it because of the size!!
ARRGGGH!
Oh well... No warranty here-
ARRGGGH!
Oh well... No warranty here-
25 or 30 years ago, there were, maybe, 12 - 15 really good VW engine builders in the Southern New England area. ALL of these guys stood behind their work with engine rebuild warranties of 12K to 25K miles, regardless of displacement. Of course, none of these guys were building T-1 engines larger than 2,160 cc's, and most had migrated to larger, single carbs (small Holleys or Carters, usually).
Today, there are only four VW builders left here (and, maybe, four 356 engine builders), and none of them rely on VW engine builds as their bread-and-butter. They've all moved over to rebuilding Harley Davidson engines, as that is a larger, more lucritive market for their work (and a seemingly endless demand, too!!) I would trust two of them to build me an engine, but neither have the time as it interferes with their "regular" work load and they can't spare the time.
So where does that leave us aircooled-lovers? Change with the times, find a way to repair-rebuild what you have yourself or send it outside of New England to get the work done. A final alternative would be to take the plunge into a wholly different power plant; Suby based is the easiest, I suppose, but in-line fours or maybe even electric hybrids are not beyond reason.....all it takes is someone to try doing one and get others to follow.....Maybe I can get the Engineering students at Worcester Polytechnic Institute to convert Pearl to Hybrid power!!!!!????? Now, THAT would be a hoot!!
Gordon
Today, there are only four VW builders left here (and, maybe, four 356 engine builders), and none of them rely on VW engine builds as their bread-and-butter. They've all moved over to rebuilding Harley Davidson engines, as that is a larger, more lucritive market for their work (and a seemingly endless demand, too!!) I would trust two of them to build me an engine, but neither have the time as it interferes with their "regular" work load and they can't spare the time.
So where does that leave us aircooled-lovers? Change with the times, find a way to repair-rebuild what you have yourself or send it outside of New England to get the work done. A final alternative would be to take the plunge into a wholly different power plant; Suby based is the easiest, I suppose, but in-line fours or maybe even electric hybrids are not beyond reason.....all it takes is someone to try doing one and get others to follow.....Maybe I can get the Engineering students at Worcester Polytechnic Institute to convert Pearl to Hybrid power!!!!!????? Now, THAT would be a hoot!!
Gordon
Steven- Just to clarify, I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm saying the general state of affairs in the ACVW world displays a poor business model- because too many of us have bought into the "VW engines are cheap to build and maintain" misconception. The vast majority of parts now in the pipeline are just plain junk- and the one's that aren't typically cost what any small batch, domesticaly produced, custom piece would- which is to say- a lot.
ANY shop, of ANY size can and should stand behind the finished work product. If they don't- they either need to charge more so they can, or they need to find another niche to fill. Paying a lot is no guarentee of quality, but shopping on price alone pretty much assures you of getting what you pay for.
I'm not, however, sold on smaller dispalacement engines being more reliable- there have been numerous accounts of "mexi-crate" 1600-1776 motor failures. Lots of guys run 2110s reliably for years... if they are built right. Are they as reliable as a certain flat four from an island off the east coast of Asia? Probably not- but I'll eat my hat if any of us drive these cars like we would a minivan, or pickup truck. They are typically not daily transportation. Realistically, I want something that isn't going to leave me stranded, not something I can drive for 200K mi between rebuilds. This is my HOBBY- I LIKE tinkering- and I can do it on a carburated ACVW.
The right answer to the question "what engine should I get?" is "what are your expectaions?". Find somebody whose product meets your philosophy for these cars, and go for it.
ANY shop, of ANY size can and should stand behind the finished work product. If they don't- they either need to charge more so they can, or they need to find another niche to fill. Paying a lot is no guarentee of quality, but shopping on price alone pretty much assures you of getting what you pay for.
I'm not, however, sold on smaller dispalacement engines being more reliable- there have been numerous accounts of "mexi-crate" 1600-1776 motor failures. Lots of guys run 2110s reliably for years... if they are built right. Are they as reliable as a certain flat four from an island off the east coast of Asia? Probably not- but I'll eat my hat if any of us drive these cars like we would a minivan, or pickup truck. They are typically not daily transportation. Realistically, I want something that isn't going to leave me stranded, not something I can drive for 200K mi between rebuilds. This is my HOBBY- I LIKE tinkering- and I can do it on a carburated ACVW.
The right answer to the question "what engine should I get?" is "what are your expectaions?". Find somebody whose product meets your philosophy for these cars, and go for it.
I agree with Stan... Since this is a hobby for you guys and also for me as well as a profession I understand how much of a necessity it is to deal with someoen that you are compatible with.
By the same token that some of you would never deal with an engine company that did not offer a warranty- I do not deal with anyone that doesn't understand that we are taking a stock 48-57HP engine TI or a 75-100HP engine (TIV) and effectively modifying it to produce 2, 3 or even 4 times as much power and that the customer has an equal amount of responsibility of keeping that engine alive as the builder- Maybe more according to the engine.
As for the aircooled industry dying- I don't think so at all. Right now its the worst I have ever seen it with all the crap from 3rd world countries filling the shelves and all the labor being done in sweat shops across the world. In the end I believe that those that are in this business only to make money will probably change to another vehicle as their target and thats a good thing. It will leave the remainder of shops that are honest, sell good stuff and do what they say. If it does die, I'll go back to working on aircraft engines, make more money and work less hours- But certainly not have as much fun doing it!
By the same token that some of you would never deal with an engine company that did not offer a warranty- I do not deal with anyone that doesn't understand that we are taking a stock 48-57HP engine TI or a 75-100HP engine (TIV) and effectively modifying it to produce 2, 3 or even 4 times as much power and that the customer has an equal amount of responsibility of keeping that engine alive as the builder- Maybe more according to the engine.
As for the aircooled industry dying- I don't think so at all. Right now its the worst I have ever seen it with all the crap from 3rd world countries filling the shelves and all the labor being done in sweat shops across the world. In the end I believe that those that are in this business only to make money will probably change to another vehicle as their target and thats a good thing. It will leave the remainder of shops that are honest, sell good stuff and do what they say. If it does die, I'll go back to working on aircraft engines, make more money and work less hours- But certainly not have as much fun doing it!
Interesting, I here everyone basically saying the same thing as me. I guess Stan really nailed it down when he said, that it really depends on the persons expectations. I hope I'm paraphrasing ok.
And Jake, right off agrees with me by saying the problem is really that were building these engines for way more hp then they were really intended to have.(again paraphrasing) So I will say it differently, "Are you really willing to take on the trouble that a larger horsepower engine will cause?" BTW, very few airplane engines don't have a warranty, so it probably wouldn't really be your cup of tea, of course lots of times if the engine quits then its a little more serious and lets face it an airplane engine producing 150hp is about 12000 dollars to buy and has magnetos (yuck).
If you have a good engine now, I would thank my lucky stars and don't change it, you are playing russian roulette and you already dry fired once. (that last part was for George also, I know he enjoyed guns)
And Jake, right off agrees with me by saying the problem is really that were building these engines for way more hp then they were really intended to have.(again paraphrasing) So I will say it differently, "Are you really willing to take on the trouble that a larger horsepower engine will cause?" BTW, very few airplane engines don't have a warranty, so it probably wouldn't really be your cup of tea, of course lots of times if the engine quits then its a little more serious and lets face it an airplane engine producing 150hp is about 12000 dollars to buy and has magnetos (yuck).
If you have a good engine now, I would thank my lucky stars and don't change it, you are playing russian roulette and you already dry fired once. (that last part was for George also, I know he enjoyed guns)
Isn't that the truth!!
The VW engine can stand a ton of modifications and still be reliable, BUT the chances of a failure are increased from something that would be a small issue for a stock engine.
A good example of a solid engine is my 3 liter TIV, it is based on a 1700 TIV case and I just put mile # 5,200 on it today since it was born in early March.. I have driven the hell out of it and drag raced it but I know how to take care of it and every sound it makes is memorized to the ear.. The car doesn't have a radio, except the 3000 cc noisemaker in the rear. In the wrong hands this engine could be killed in 5 minutes, while it could last me 100K miles- even giving it pure hell.
I am putting together a handbook of things that every person that desires a modified VW engine should have. This will include all the aspects of things that can break an engine and tells a ton about heat ranges, gauges and the like. The problem with most of these modified engines are the cars they are installed into and the driver's that have limited experience with them- Thats why I am compiling the handbook.
The key is to create a powerful engine that needs LESS modifcations from stock. This is why I began my work long ago with the TIV, since it starts out stock at 2,000 ccs it can be made into a 2270 with the addition of only 10% more displacement and make 150 HP- reliably without the loss of reliability or longevity. Increase the displacement of a TI 1600 by only 10% and you are looking at a whopping 1760ccs and maybe a 85HP engine if you are lucky.
The VW engine's worst enemy is the wrong guy with a 13mm wrench.
A good example of a solid engine is my 3 liter TIV, it is based on a 1700 TIV case and I just put mile # 5,200 on it today since it was born in early March.. I have driven the hell out of it and drag raced it but I know how to take care of it and every sound it makes is memorized to the ear.. The car doesn't have a radio, except the 3000 cc noisemaker in the rear. In the wrong hands this engine could be killed in 5 minutes, while it could last me 100K miles- even giving it pure hell.
I am putting together a handbook of things that every person that desires a modified VW engine should have. This will include all the aspects of things that can break an engine and tells a ton about heat ranges, gauges and the like. The problem with most of these modified engines are the cars they are installed into and the driver's that have limited experience with them- Thats why I am compiling the handbook.
The key is to create a powerful engine that needs LESS modifcations from stock. This is why I began my work long ago with the TIV, since it starts out stock at 2,000 ccs it can be made into a 2270 with the addition of only 10% more displacement and make 150 HP- reliably without the loss of reliability or longevity. Increase the displacement of a TI 1600 by only 10% and you are looking at a whopping 1760ccs and maybe a 85HP engine if you are lucky.
The VW engine's worst enemy is the wrong guy with a 13mm wrench.
I got some additional feedback from the people at Supertec Performance, a porsche engine and transmission rebuilder.
Does anyone know these people? Jake would be happy that they suggested a Type IV engine first...but still has issues with heat and A/C, so it doen't work for me.
After a long conversation, it seemed for the money, the best bet would be a 2.4 liter (non S) 6 cyl Porsche motor (complete rebuild) with CIS fuel injection and a 901 5 speed transmission. The estimated output in the 160 hp to 180 hp range, and could be tuned as needed. A Carbureted version would be stronger, but more fickle, require more regular tuning. Estimated cost $7000 to $8000 without a core, w/o exhaust, add some for fan, sheet metal and injection. Under $10k with rebuilt 901 (with custom gearing, if desired).
After speaking to 3 or 4 different people that rebuild Porsche engines, not one seems to think the competition does a "good" job, or "you have to be careful" of those people? How is it that no one knows of a good rebuilder, or can recommend one?
Does anyone know these people? Jake would be happy that they suggested a Type IV engine first...but still has issues with heat and A/C, so it doen't work for me.
After a long conversation, it seemed for the money, the best bet would be a 2.4 liter (non S) 6 cyl Porsche motor (complete rebuild) with CIS fuel injection and a 901 5 speed transmission. The estimated output in the 160 hp to 180 hp range, and could be tuned as needed. A Carbureted version would be stronger, but more fickle, require more regular tuning. Estimated cost $7000 to $8000 without a core, w/o exhaust, add some for fan, sheet metal and injection. Under $10k with rebuilt 901 (with custom gearing, if desired).
After speaking to 3 or 4 different people that rebuild Porsche engines, not one seems to think the competition does a "good" job, or "you have to be careful" of those people? How is it that no one knows of a good rebuilder, or can recommend one?
In my experience, no engine builder ever thinks any other engine builder is worth a Tinker's Dam.
If you really, really want a Gen-U-Ine Porsche engine, then go to a few PCA autocross or racing events in your area and ask those racers who builds THEIR engines (I'll bet serious money that none of those who race, actually build their own engines) and then go visit THAT shop. I would also pay close attention to the displacement/vintage of the engine in Steve and Angela Lane's 550 Spyder. They used that engine/transmission for good reasons....
gn
If you really, really want a Gen-U-Ine Porsche engine, then go to a few PCA autocross or racing events in your area and ask those racers who builds THEIR engines (I'll bet serious money that none of those who race, actually build their own engines) and then go visit THAT shop. I would also pay close attention to the displacement/vintage of the engine in Steve and Angela Lane's 550 Spyder. They used that engine/transmission for good reasons....
gn
Ho,ho!!! Robert, that thing will freakin' fly with a 911 drivetrain!
Gordon or somebody...fill me in...what does Steve Lane have for a drive train in his Spyder??? Are there any photos, specifics...