Incinerating money, that made me laugh but is a good example of some of the loops one has to do to learn something, or get one through some things that illusions cause you to do.
@DannyP posted:I'm about to install a 2276 that I built into an older Vintage Spyder. I'm using the CB dry sump pump. This has a 26mm scavenge pump and a 21mm pressure pump. A couple guys on shoptalk/thesamba have run these in races. As in track stuff and Baja S.C.O.RE. stuff and had good success. No oil pressure or starvation issues have been reported. IMHO, a constant availability to a 21mm pressure pump is better than sloshy, foamy input to a 26 or 30mm pump. Foam doesn't protect bearings, non-aerated oil does.
I've modified the pump(plugged), case(plugged), and a full-flow pump cover(machined to clear the pulley). It's not plug-and-play for sure.
The oil is scavenged from the stock engine case, then out through the scavenge pump. The oil is sucked out of the case to the thermostat, to and from a cooler, then to the top of the round tank(Round is important, oil swirling down in a circle de-aerates better). Feed is from the bottom of the tank to the pressure pump, to a Wix 1515 filter, then to the full-flow oil gallery lubing the engine.
There should be no oil drain-back-into-the-case problem in the Spyder. That is the advantage, as the bottom of the tank can be level with the oil pump and sump. I've been running mine this way for three years, and it works well. There is never anything on the stock dipstick even after sitting for weeks.
i believe U have to check the dipstick when its running with a dry sump
@barncobob posted:i believe U have to check the dipstick when its running with a dry sump
Do you have a dry sump system?
The point was not HOW to check the oil, but to illustrate how the system works. The engine sump is empty when running, there is a clean non-aerated supply of oil in the tank.
But, shut the engine off and pop a valve cover. You'll find the engine bone-dry inside with a properly built system.
My dipstick is in the dry sump tank. I keep it about half full, which ends up being 6-7 quarts in the whole system.
Anyway, in a Speedster it is more difficult to mount a dry sump tank at the correct height. The problem is where do you mount it? Just about all options are too high in a Speedster, but especially in a Bug. That is where the drain-back issue comes into play.
Accusump (I like saying it, too). Is there a place for an Accusump in the non-dry sump design of most of our systems? Seems like it could be useful either at startup, stoplights or at incinerating spare cash.
@Michael Pickett posted:Accusump (I like saying it, too). Is there a place for an Accusump in the non-dry sump design of most of our systems? Seems like it could be useful either at startup, stoplights or at incinerating spare cash.
Yes. Absolutely. I would say either one or the other, Accusump in conventional wet sump OR dry sump system.
I was considering an Accusump in my Cayman for track use. It seems the factory oil system in the 3.4 S motor is inadequate for heavy track work. I installed an oil pressure gauge and monitor it, so far it's been fine on track(the 911 has 5 gauges, the Cayman 3). I also use the L&N oil filter flange which uses a Corvette spin-on filter instead of the cartridge. I may have to reconsider Accusump once I get track pads and tires.
Stan has the belt AND the suspenders. It's cool to have both, but I think unnecessary.
@DannyP posted:Do you have a dry sump system?
The point was not HOW to check the oil, but to illustrate how the system works. The engine sump is empty when running, there is a clean non-aerated supply of oil in the tank.
But, shut the engine off and pop a valve cover. You'll find the engine bone-dry inside with a properly built system.
My dipstick is in the dry sump tank. I keep it about half full, which ends up being 6-7 quarts in the whole system.
Anyway, in a Speedster it is more difficult to mount a dry sump tank at the correct height. The problem is where do you mount it? Just about all options are too high in a Speedster, but especially in a Bug. That is where the drain-back issue comes into play.
ok how do YOU check the oil level in YOUR car, just curious
I think that all you guys running dry sump systems deserve an Elijah McCoy award.
He was the guy who invented and later patented automatic oiling systems for steam train locomotives (among many other things) back in the 1800's. Lots of companies tried to copy his designs but they were often inferior to the original, leading to the phrase, "Is that the real McCoy?"
You can read a brief article on him, here:
https://www.michiganradio.org/...ed-railroad-industry
I know..... The stuff you learn on here, right?
i saw that on a show about locomotives,,seems there were alot of copycat oilers, none of which worked as the real mccoy
In regards to an IM-6 which is the ultimate, I am looking forward to seeing @Jimmy V. ‘S.
Feedback from him and dyno results would seem to me that a type-4 is a real option especially if the Hp is near 220-230 hp and with the torque band and all of it being normally aspirated. Now get FI in there and you have a great option with a 915 tranny.
I have no idea what the cruising speed and fan RPM requirements are but I assume close to type-1 so that in an spyder or a speedster would be quite a car
Rick, yes and no. I plugged the pump the same way, and I also plugged the case. I'm not changing the way CB designed the pump to be used(like the guy in the video is), merely adding the full flow cover.
@DannyP posted:My dipstick is in the dry sump tank. I keep it about half full, which ends up being 6-7 quarts in the whole system.
@Michael Pickett posted:Accusump (I like saying it, too). Is there a place for an Accusump in the non-dry sump design of most of our systems? Seems like it could be useful either at startup, stoplights or at incinerating spare cash.
It fits well mounted perpendicular to the engine, on the small shelf directly under the deck-lid latch. The business end can be oriented towards the driver's side, so that the plumbing is kept short.
Honestly, I don't know why these are not on more cars. With the Hobbs pressure switch set to 20 psi, they're very cheap insurance. I use mine primarily as a pre-oiler.
Here is my Accusump mounted where Stan suggests. The blue thing on the right is the valve that opens when the ignition is turned on. When I turn the ignition off I usually rev the engine a bit to build up pressure in the Accusump before turning the key.
I added a switch so I can turn the valve off if I want the ignition on for some reason and don't want to release the oil.
Attachments
Images (1)
Certainly is Purdy……..
@Michael McKelvey posted:Here is my Accusump mounted where Stan suggests. The blue thing on the right is the valve that opens when the ignition is turned on. When I turn the ignition off I usually rev the engine a bit to build up pressure in the Accusump before turning the key.
I added a switch so I can turn the valve off if I want the ignition on for some reason and don't want to release the oil.
Nice job Michael
Guys, pictures of your cooler mounting and plumbing would give me an idea as to moving my fan assisted setup from over the tranny. Gracias.
Ricardo
.
OK, I'll start with this link to some photos I posted a few years back.
The problem is that once the cooler, filter, and connecting hoses are all in, there's not much room for taking pictures, so these photos may not be too helpful. But they're a start.
Another thing to consider is that getting the hoses to fit and to clear everything, with the proper AN connectors, will probably be a greater challenge than making the bracket. Luckily, I had someone who actually knew what he was doing do this for me.
If you like solving Rubix cubes, you should be fine.
If you don't know what a Rubix cube is, you're probably young and nimble enough to get in there and do the deed.
.
Thanks Mitch
I was reading on the Gene Berg site, he talked about cooling and ends by saying he only has the normal VW cooling setup on his 200 hp daily driver with no problems. How? Are our SWB VW’s that bad at cooling.
@R Thorpe posted:I was reading on the Gene Berg site, he talked about cooling and ends by saying he only has the normal VW cooling setup on his 200 hp daily driver with no problems. How? Are our SWB VW’s that bad at cooling.
The problem with any and all Berg "infomercial" musings: it was 1970s-1980s when they were written.
Berg never ran more than 7.5:1 compression with the combustion chambers(his) and gasoline available back then.
IF you run decent compression(more than 8.5:1) today, you'll need an auxiliary cooler with a big motor, ESPECIALLY in a Speedster.
And stop reading the Berg site. It is hard to discern facts for TODAY that are still pertinent.
Interesting. What about this, a loop made of available 1/2 inch copper pipe and fittings, up one side of the car across the front and back to a thermostat switch where my cooler is now ( between the engine and back of the cockpit) that length should exchange a lot of heat and the pipe diameter would keep the pressure reasonable, every tie point could transfer heat to the frame as a giant heat sink?
As others have said, the tried and true method of locating the external cooler at the rear of the driver's side rear wheel well is hard to beat. If you run long lines you need to have the thermostat recirculating the cold oil next to the engine. Otherwise, it will slow down your warm up time. Running cold over long periods is almost as bad as running hot for short periods. Here are some pictures looking up at the thermostat and oil cooler. The oil filter is mounted on the rear frame above the muffler.
Attachments
Images (3)
Why make something more complicated than it needs to be? As others have said, you aren’t going to reinvent the wheel. If anything, move your oil cooler from between the firewall to the driver’s side wheel well as suggested.
I’ve had zero overheating issues with my car which is the same 2332cc engine, oil cooler, and fan set up as yours. I was just at a car show last weekend and had to drive through long periods of idling/stop and go in hot weather. Needle didn’t budge above where it normally is. I don’t see being in any worse of a situation for potential overheating than that, so I plan to leave my oil cooler and fan mounted by the firewall as delivered. My car arrived June 28th. I only have about 275 miles on it. Haven’t had much time to post about it yet.
Different strokes for different folks. I guess I should stop trying to put perfume on a pig as the saying goes.
Gracias
Yeah, you have your heart set on running the oil up to the front and back.
Knock yourself out.
Mmmm Bacon! Why not just drop you oil cooler down to one side of the transaxle. Could even add a scoop to pickup cool and --- and a second to exit it.
Up North in the winter, VW owners used to move their auxiliary oil coolers inside the car for extra heat!
@R Thorpe posted:Gracias
Here are the photos of where I installed by oil cooler. Follow the link and scroll down to my photos. The cooler was mounted horizontally along the inside of the frame. Custom brackets were made but they weren’t complicated.
Robert,
Thank you but I followed the link and don't see the pictures
Robert see them now. Yikes