Skip to main content

Closed31 replies

Engine Hot Start

Todd -Todd -Charlotte, NC
All

Start my engine after car sits overnight. Starts up good, a little rough on idle as it warms up. Take it out and warm it up and drive it - call it 10 miles. Stop to get gas, car was running wonderfully, idle was great after warm up, etc. Go to turn the car back on after getting gas and it just wont start. Pump the gas couple times, nothing, literaly took me 2 minutes to get it started. No issues with battery, doesnt sound weak, etc.

The above story is one of about 20 I have experienced. I had a guy come over who wants to put an offer on it yesterday. Of course, I had it out in early afternoon and drove it about 30 miles. Wonderful drive...car is purring perfectly, gears are great, idle is great, etc. Park it at about 1pm in the garage. Guy calls and says he will be there are 4 to look at the car. I go out at about 3:30 just to start it, polish etc. Car again, just wont start. Finally get it to start. Shut it off, start it again, shut it off, wait a minute start it again. Half hour later the guy shows up and asks me to start it...fingers crossed...it chugs and chugs for about 5 seconds. turn off the key, try again, same thing. now the look on this guys face is one of "SHIT - the car has a problem" when in fact this car runs fantastic. Finally get it started, rough start, take it for a drive and it runs beautifully. Idle after a couple minutes is just under 1,000 and I told him that would happen. BUT, Now I am embarrased!

I believe there are some posts on here from a while back. Sorry for the book I just wrote, but need some ideas. I believe this is called hot starting???

Angela had posted somewhere the need for a high torque starter when someone else was experiencing this? What would that do to help this situation?? where the hell is the starter on a Vintage Speedster anyway?

Bill Demeter - Any Ideas??


Any ideas, comments, suggestions? I know the car isnt pissed at me for trying to sell it...I am turning around and buying its cousin.

HELP!!!

Thanks

Todd

Todd

Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Todd -Todd -Charlotte, NC
All

Start my engine after car sits overnight. Starts up good, a little rough on idle as it warms up. Take it out and warm it up and drive it - call it 10 miles. Stop to get gas, car was running wonderfully, idle was great after warm up, etc. Go to turn the car back on after getting gas and it just wont start. Pump the gas couple times, nothing, literaly took me 2 minutes to get it started. No issues with battery, doesnt sound weak, etc.

The above story is one of about 20 I have experienced. I had a guy come over who wants to put an offer on it yesterday. Of course, I had it out in early afternoon and drove it about 30 miles. Wonderful drive...car is purring perfectly, gears are great, idle is great, etc. Park it at about 1pm in the garage. Guy calls and says he will be there are 4 to look at the car. I go out at about 3:30 just to start it, polish etc. Car again, just wont start. Finally get it to start. Shut it off, start it again, shut it off, wait a minute start it again. Half hour later the guy shows up and asks me to start it...fingers crossed...it chugs and chugs for about 5 seconds. turn off the key, try again, same thing. now the look on this guys face is one of "SHIT - the car has a problem" when in fact this car runs fantastic. Finally get it started, rough start, take it for a drive and it runs beautifully. Idle after a couple minutes is just under 1,000 and I told him that would happen. BUT, Now I am embarrased!

I believe there are some posts on here from a while back. Sorry for the book I just wrote, but need some ideas. I believe this is called hot starting???

Angela had posted somewhere the need for a high torque starter when someone else was experiencing this? What would that do to help this situation?? where the hell is the starter on a Vintage Speedster anyway?

Bill Demeter - Any Ideas??


Any ideas, comments, suggestions? I know the car isnt pissed at me for trying to sell it...I am turning around and buying its cousin.

HELP!!!

Thanks

Todd
FM Former Member
Several things come to mind but first, the starter is located on the transaxle bell housing just below the floor of the car on the passenger side.

If you have a mechanical fuel pump, they are notorious for having such a problem. If vapor locking is occuring as suggested by Lane then the mechanical pump doesn't have enough strength to power past the air bubbles in the fuel line. A 12 volt rotary fuel pump set to 3 or 3.5 psi will defeat any fuel vapor issues. First thing to do is to check the fuel line as suggested by Lane. Any direct or indirect heat source close to the fuel lines will cause a vapor lock. Another issue could be that your carburetor bowl floats are set too high and flooding is occuring. After you turn off the engine, listen for percolating fuel. It can be forced into the carburetor thus flooding the engine.

In regards to a high torque starter. If the sound of the starter is different when you're starting the car after it's warmed up then maybe a new starter is in order but, if it sounds the same, isn't dragging then a new starter probably won't solve this problem.
Al GalloAl Gallo
Todd, my car has a similar problem at times and I suspect it's flooding. I use a trick I learned from starting flooded dirt bikes. Before I turn the key, I hold the gas pedal to the floor, don't pump the gas at all, just hold it to the floor and start the car. This holds the butterflies in the carbs wide open . This is not a fix but it does start the car , at least in my case. Good luck
Gordon NicholsGordon NicholsMassachusetts 1993 CMC Supporting Member
I would tend to agree with Al - Foot to the floor and don't raise it until it starts. Should start in 5-10 seconds.

But Larry has highlighted the cure - either a new mechanical fuel pump (which I don't favor) or a new, electric, rotary fuel pump up front under the tank that'll cure it from vapor lock forever.

And I believe it has vapor lock, too. Either that or BOTH pilot valves are leaking when it's been shut off and overflowing the float bowls and flooding the cylinders.

Either way, a high torque starter in this case would be a waste of money.
David Stroud IM Roadster DDavid Stroud IM Roadster DOttawa Canada '83 IM Soob
Giday, Todd. Here's a link to the VW type Hi- Torque starters : http://www.hitorque.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=6. I went with the IMI-101N just to get some extra oomph for my Soob conversion and it delivers as promised, FYI only. I don't think your hot start problem is the starter either. Al Merklin offerred an alternative and inexpensive starter option in the VW Autostick starter and you can get them almost anywhere for about $50. I don't know the specs on it but it was somewhat more powerful than the stock starter I had.
FM Former Member
I'm on the side of the fence with the guys who say save your money to buy a starter some other day. Today is not the day.

Your engine cranks fine on the starter you have, it just doesn't fire. I'd be looking at the fuel related issues mentioned already (flooding and vapor lock).
Todd -Todd -Charlotte, NC
Thanks for all the insight and replies. I talked to Roland via text and actually called Vintage to see if I had the right amount of oil in the car which according to both I do...which is just about 2 and 3/4 quarts. Corey asked on facebook what type of oil and it is 10w30. Maybe something bigger would cool it better? I did stick my hand (again - thanks for the checklist COREY) behind fan shroud and was able to feel all the fan blades and could not feell anything stuck in there.

As far as anything heating up, the only pieces that I can see (fuel line) that would be an issue would be the actual rubber hoses going into the carbs. They are the only pieces that touch anything.

I did make sure that the fan belt nut at the alternator was tight but can not check if the actual fan nut is tight cause I dont have a socket big enough to fit back there. I am not sure how to tell if the actual fan belt is loose, but I do not here any noise and the alternator light does not flicker.

Could plug wires getting too hot have anything to do with it?

Also - I did the mash the pedal to the floor and it worked after about 5 seconds so I got that going for me...but I really want to figure this out. My wife WILL NOT push so I DONT have that going for me!!!

I do not hear any gurgling or sounds of something boiling after shut off accept the bubbling I see in the fuel filter itself which I assume is normal movement in the lines after shut off?
FM Former Member
The bubbling in the filter isn't a common trait. Check the fuel lines that are in front of the engine. Also, flooring the pedal indicates that you're flooding. The needle and seat in one or both carburetors may be stuck or as I mentioned before, your floats may be set imporperly.

To answer one of your previous questions. Mounting the electric fuel pump is something you can do. Mount the pump as close to the fuel tank as is possible. A filter before and after is always wise. You can either wire the pump to the ignition or a separate switch using a power source that's only active when the key is in the on position. (just don't forget to turn it on) You'll need some more hose to bypass the mechanical pump and, you can buy a block off plate if you choose to remove the mechanical pump
Al GalloAl Gallo
Todd, this may be a stupid question, but, is your engine compartment sealed off? When I first got my car the rear of the engine bay was open so you could look down and see the exhaust system. It got so hot in there you could cook a chicken, and the gas in the fuel filter bubbled like crazy when I shut the car off. I fixed that right away and have never seen that again. I had a "Porsche mechanic" look at it and he said that didn't matter. Never saw him again either.
Kawika55Kawika55
I have had the same problem! Hard to start after driving for a couple of miles. I recently installed a Electric Fuel Pump. I was having the problem with the Carbs maybe a vapor lock or just the fuel was getting to hot and had a bubbling sound in the carbs when the motor was hot. I redid some of the wiring and changed the Dist. Cap. The Fuel pump solved the problem.

Aloha, Kawika

Attachments

Hide
Images (2)
  • DSCN1185
  • DSCN2438
East Coast BruceEast Coast BruceMaryland
Todd,

It's important to seal the engine compartment. The CMC kits came with sheets of fiberglass that could be cut to the final shape needed. I used a sheet of stainless from the hardware store. Then you need the VW bus H-shaped rubber engine compartment seal to finish it off. There are threads about sealing the engine compartment elsewhere on this forum. You will probably reuse screw/bolt holes on the underside of your car where the sheets where installed when your Vintage was new.

The fan blows cooler air down over the cylinders and out underneath the car. If your engine isn't sealed all that heat comes right back up to the top of the engine again.
Post Content
Remove This Ad

Membership Required

We're sorry. You must be signed in to continue. Sign In or Register
×
Are you sure you want to remove from your Block List?
×
Loading...
×
When you block a person, they can no longer invite you to a private message or post to your profile wall. Replies and comments they make will be collapsed/hidden by default. Finally, you'll never receive email notifications about content they create or likes they designate for your content.
Note: if you proceed, you will no longer be following .
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×

Access to this requires a premium membership.

Supporting Member

Please help keep us running!

Supporting members have donated about $4.00 a month ($49.00 US per year) paid annually.

  • Priority support
  • Removal of inter-page (between thread) advertisements.
  • Access to Build Manuals
  • Access to Knowledge Base
  • Access to Supporting Members events.
  • Access to Leveraged Group Buying from site Merchants.

AUTO RENEW: You membership will auto-renew after 12 months. If you prefer not to auto-renew, you can cancel your premium membership at any time and it will remain in effect until the end of the 12 months. To cancel, sign in at SpeedsterOwners.com and navigate to: (Your User Name)  > Premium Membership.

PLEASE NOTE: Your credit card will receive a charge from CROWDSTACK PAY, the payment processor, not SpeedsterOwners.com.

$49.00 per 12 Months (plus tax if applicable)
×