Engine Locked, Need Help

So I'm driving the car, and I start hearing the little clattering noise. I only hear it when I am in first gear. I started to hear a little whinning in reverse as well.

I drive to a gas station and fill up. I put it in reverse and heard it clatter really bad. I turned the car off, and then go to start and nothing. I try to crank the motor manually and it is locked up.

Brief history:
2 weeks ago, I replaced the flywheel. The car was running really really good until today.

So have I siezed the engine? Or could the transmission be gone and preventing the engine from turning?

Todd

Todd,

Why did you replace the flywheel???

It's hard to say what the problem is without more diagnosis. You could try to pull the plugs out, and raise the back end (both wheels) off the ground, then try to turn the engine with the crank pulley nut, and make sure it is'nt stuck in gear. If the trans is in N then the wheels should spin freely even if the engine is seized. Then, after confirming that, you should know if it's the motor or tranny, but i tend to consider that it's related to the last thing you did to the motor which is the flywheel, and maybe the grub nut came loose, the dowels are missing or broken, or you did'nt replace the correct shims and set the end play on the crank. One other possibility that just came to mind is that the starter could be stuck in the flywheel, did you install the starter shaft bushing when you pulled the motor last?

martin

I purchased the engine from a rebuilder on Samba. The flywheel was an incoorect size (to small). So the started eventaully ate the teeth down. I replaced it with a new one. I shimmed it to .003 (correct specs).

I placed the car in Neutral and the engine is still locked. It leads me to think that the first gear is jammed and keeping the gears engaged to the engine. I've siezed an engine before, but there were warning signs. This time it just sounded ike something came loose and locked it.

I was hearing little raddles getting to the Gas Stations, but only in first gear. 2nd-4th ran good.

Is it possible that the transmission is jammed and preventing the engine from turning?

Todd

yes it's possible, like if you broke a shift fork.

I still think you should pull the spark plugs and put both wheels off the ground, then try to turn the wheels, and the motor.

My next step after that is to just pull the motor and see, instead of wasting time diagnosing something that has to be fixed anyhow.

I'll try it tonight. If it works, you are my new hero.

i know i won't be your hero, i doubt you'll fix the problem, just better diagnose what the problem is. Try bumping the starter with the coil disconnected AND the wheels off the ground, see if it's stuck in gear, or if the motor is seized.

I hate to say it but a seize may be possible. When I had my bug in high school I was out tuning my daul webbers. Drove to the gas station to fill it up and when I tried to start it again it had seized or spun a bearing. I had to do a complete tear down. Try what peps are saying about turning the engine over with the wheels off the ground. Or pull the engine and try turning it over. It takes 20 min to pull these little 4's out.

D

Hope its something simple

Todd, To be on the safe side don't try to crank the engine over with the starter. Remove your plugs and try turning the engine over by hand. If it won't turn ... drain the oil and look for obvious metal shavings. Will the transaxle go in neutral?

Joe

Try rotating it by hand in both directions. If it's something mechanical and not a seizure
they it may turn in the opposite direction. A seizure will usually be solid/frozen.
Good luck.

Is it possible you overheated it? I'm going to assume you keep up on oil levels?

I tried to turn it by hand last night, and no luck. Yes it will go into neutral.

I'm going to pull the engine tonight and give it a look see. I'm betting a buffalo nickel its the flywheel. The rattle I heard was not like a seizure tapping. It was like metal nut rolling around.

Regardless of engine seizure or not, I don't trust the engine. That's why I building out a 2100. I purchased the current engine from a guy on Samba. So far, the flywheel size and shims have been off, and there have been leaks. So I am unsure what the inside is like. This might be my sign to slow down and rebuild.

Corey,
Thanks for the phone call last night. I needed the pick me up. I was demoralized last night, but I'm back on it today.

Todd

Todd,

There are several of us around here who may be able to help with your problem. Feel free to give me a call...936-273-4259 or 936-827-3337 cell, we have a fair amount of special tools that are needed for working on these beasts, and collectively we have all had issues where outside assistance was appreciated, if only to lend moral assistance...

We have a couple of torque meister's to effectively tighten gland nuts and axles, as well as a pretty broad range of experiences on engines. No experts, just practical experience learned over years and situations like yours...we have all had painful experiences...

Jim

WAIT!

Don't do anything until you remove the starter, then try turning the engine by hand. Maybe it's the starter teeth that have jammed up the flywheel and locked the engine.

Or have you done this already?

Not yet. Taking the started out was my first move. I'll know if I can't get the starter out.

Jim, thanks for the offer. I'm thinking flywheel came loose. If so, I'll give you a call. I don't have a tool that can get it to 220 lbs of torque (Except a breaker bar and my weight). My compressor is not big enough.

Todd

Todd; as Martin said I'm inclined to think that it was something that you did the last time you worked on the engine. I believe the correct end play is about .005" as per Gene Berg's literature. Maybe the problem is related to improperly installed/broken pressure plate and/or release bearing. I don't think it's related to the motor itself. Wish you the best.

It would be nice if the gland nut just came lose. Cross your fingers that the roll pins didn't shear.

I Pulled the engine.

The flywheel nut came off and was lodged in the flywheel. It took a bit of force, but I got it out. The Flywheel is jack-ed up. I will replace and lock it down this weekend, and then give it another go.

Todd

Todd,

Do you have the 8 dowel pins in the flywheel / crank? If not you need it. Also, you need to be on the look out of the dowel holes being oblong and not holding pins securely. I would also recommend red loctite on the pins and flywheel as well as the gland nut. I have both a flywheel lock as well as a torque meister tool that makes 300 ft pounds easy to do. I am more than happy to loan them to you.

I do not have a drill guide for drilling the 4 extra holes in your crank if that has to be done. Kermit, at ASK Imports, 3507 Bering, Dr.Houston, TX 77057 713-780-1331, sells them for not much money. He also has new gland nuts and all other manner of parts for VW's if you don't know him, you need to....good guy and helpful....

Please feel free to give me a call if you think appropriate...

Jim

Todd, as stated above. You MUST have the proper torque!!!

I'll talk to Kermit today. He have helped me a bunch over the last year. If the pins need replacing, I screwed. I have to crack the case, correct?

As far a the torque goes, I'm going to take it to a shop and have the torque it down. I don't have the air compressor nor tools to do it.

Todd

This may be way off the mark but make sure the crank has not been damaged. If there is a small crack in the thread portion, where the gland nut goes, that could have caused the gland nut to back out.

I would think you should replace the gland nut with a new one and be sure to lube the roller bearings inside the nut where the transaxle pilot shaft inserts. You need just a little grease, but you do need some. Failure to lube the gland nut or put grease on the pilot shaft will make it stick as it goes in and out.

Todd,

You will probably find it a lot easier to just buy a "torque-meister" tool ($60 +/-) and properly torque the gland nut yourself, when compared to hauling the engine off to somewhere else to have the nut torqued ($$?). Or: Jump Jim's offer to loan you the tool.

In either case, getting the nut torqued may not be your biggest problem. As already mentioned by Jim, I think you are almost guaranteed to have ovaled the dowel-pin holes in both the crank and the flywheel. If that is the case, both the crank and the flywheel are esentially ruined. Sorry.

There is some glimmer of light though. I have heard of "oversize" dowels, but I don't know where to get them. Or, also as Jim says -- if you have a 4 hole crank and/or flywheel you can drill them to an 8 hole pattern. This will give you 4 new servicable holes.

If you put the engine back in the car with ovaled holes, then plan on pulling it back out of the car, shortly -- no matter how tight you get the gland nut. If the holes are ovaled the flywheel will slap back and forth and loosen the gland nut and . . . . well you alraady know the rest.

Mark

The car is going to sit on jacks for a few weeks. I'm building out a 2100. Might as well, this flywheel issue is getting bigger and bigger as I go.

Todd

Give a call if you need stuff, Todd.

Crank shafts can be repaired. It requires the machinist to weld up the rear of the crank, drill new holes then wedge mate the flywheel to the crank. Because of the welding, the machinist usually has to turn the main and rod journals due to warpage which then requires oversize bearings.

Depending on the model of crank installed, it may be worth fixing but if it's a low cost crank, it may not be cost effective.

I know this because many years ago, I had a flywheel come loose on a stout 2110cc engine with an Okrassa crank set up for Porsche rods. It was a very expensive crank that wasn't worth throwing away. The salvage repairs, cost about 1/3 of what a new crank cost, at that time.

Been there done that, If you wanted a bigger engine from the getgo then Yes build it. You don't need any what if's and you'l never be satified with less.

But you can get a crank and a new bearing kit matched to your old case and new crank. Fixing the old motor is a can do. and a cost efective thing to do. but requires special attention to the crank fit. You also have to be very carful not to mix the cam bearings or you may as well do it all.

Most would prefer to reline bore and recase save and not take the gamble and just start over.

But yes it can be saved. I've seen it done

Todd...
where are you located?? I am in Katy Texas, so if you need some tools or something...email me...


Michael

Todd ! I hope you can save it. I understamd Mike is pretty good. and you do have a good chance . also don't forget to size the new rod bearings to the rods then the new crank. make sure they match

Be very careful as you dismantle not to have any cam bearing halfs fall lose slide a old front end flat spring into the cam area on both halfs of the case and you should be able to keep the cam bearings in place the lobes will cause problems but it will work Better still lift one case half by the camshaft. as ahelper watches the lower side cam bearing halfs making sure they stay in the lower case half.

If you replace only the crank and rod bearings with a new crank taking the extra care you should get happy results.

I almost forgot put magnets at the lifterholes you don't want any of them to fallout and get mixed eather. if your tapits get mixed or a single cam bearing half is put in backward BY BY cam.