Engine oil recommendations

The fuel pump thing has made Carl a little gun-shy. It all sounds well to me too, so that's a third.

Calling ALB,

 

Just a quick update:  I followed your advice (after reading the chapters on bobistheoilguy of course) and tried Brad Penn 10W 30 in my car.  Hated to drop 5 quarts of 30w after only about 25 miles but........

Here are my first observations and hopefully they are not all on my head:

-car seemed to start quicker and attain its idle sooner

- oil pressure was about 40 lbs (if I can trust an old "Vintage" CMC gauge)

- oil pressure stayed up and, as the car began to warm when driven carefully, the pressure began to come down.  By this I mean that as I drove it got down to about 25 - 30 lbs or so going along at about 2,000 RPM.  This was not the final resting place as I took a short drive on a 50 something degree day and came back home as it looked like rain.  

Waiting to try a longer drive to see if the car will get to the 10lbs per 1,000 RPM number.  It was falling so I think it might get there.  

Every other time I started the car it seemed the pressure didn't get quite that high but the needle really jumped this time.  It also seemed to rev more freely too!  That's probably in my head.  Anyway, that's all for now until I can get out again.

Frank

Frank- Glad to hear it's headed in the right direction, and your observations, while somewhat subjective, are similar to other people's. I know it's sometimes painful to dump what seems to be perfectly good oil, but if you learned something from the experimentation and your engine's a little happier, sounds like a win to me. Al

As Terry pointed out, I'm a 'frugal guy"

 

I'm looking at 3 quarts of Gibbs DT50 (15w50) drained from speedster...although it's surprisingly dark it only has 15 to 25 miles on it.

 

I'm thinking of diluting it with equal parts of 10w40 for winter storage (and an occasional 'fire up')....or am I being too frugal? 

Over the weekend I replaced the nearly new Brad Penn 20w-50 with 10w-40. Below are my non-scientific observations:

 

If the car has been sitting for a couple days I disonnect the coil wire and turn the engine over until the little red oil light goes out. Then I reconnect the wire and fire her up. At startup, the mechanical clashing and tapping takes a few moments to quiet down as the oil coats the various moving bits. With the new oil, the light takes less time to extinguish and the mechanical noises stop noticably quicker.

 

Operating temps are reached a bit sooner but oil pressure is lower, no longer as high at startup and reduced to 10lbs. per 1,000rpm at operating temps.

 

Regarding operating temps: at 80 degrees ambient, 1,800 - 3,500 elevation, Penny ran 190-200 @ spirited speed, head temps around 300. Compare this to 200-220 under the same course and conditions. Head temps were consistant with both runs.

 

I'm anxious to see how the new oil reacts to the 100+ degree weather this summer. I do have my fingers crossed, but it seems that Penny is a happy girl with the new blood.

How much is the 3 quarts of oil worth? 

How much is your engine worth?

Compare the two

Sound good, Terry.

Sounds similar to mine Terry.  I like the idea of a lighter weight oil at start up.  I'm also waiting for a more spirited drive and higher RPMs to see how overall temperature stands.

I just bought a case of Amsoil 10w-30 ZRod Synthetic. ZRod for zinc for flat tappet engines. Currently running Torco 20w-50 Racing Oil and motor is running hot. I'll update once or if I see any difference.

Terry;

 

Is the 10w-40 also Brad Penn?  I live mostly in Stockton, so similar summer heat like you. So can I assume that you think the only potential issue might be summer heat which is 20+ over the test ambient.  The higher summer temps might push the lighter oil to temps 200-220 +  ?.

The improved start up performance is a big positive I guess? Would this overall lower oil temp have a positive effect on mpg?

 

Thanks,  Art

After I realized my oil purchase debacle I went back to Walmart, hoping they would also carry VR1 10W-30.

Nope.

My local Walmart only carries 20W-50.

CRAP!

Now I'm 'in the hunt' for a dino oil in the 10W-30 range.

I bought a case of Swepco 306 15W-40 dino oil for my Vanagon a while back, and if I can't find anything locally I'll probably end up ordering another case.  It's a great oil, but a bit pricy.

 

 

Ron- The local Lordco will have it, or can have it within a matter of hours.

OK...I talked to an Amsoil rep yesterday for about a 1/2 hour on the phone.  I met him at a camping and gun show last year talked to him for about another 1/2 hour then and kept his card for future reference.  He was there to sell oil to guys with ATV s, campers and generators etc. I'm going to get a high zinc 10w/40 that he has to try in my speedster and another grade to run in my new generator. He can also hook me up with WIX filters if I want.  He's offering wholesale prices on anything I buy for $20 a year, whatever that is. I have 4 vehicles on the road and it may be worth it. I'll let y'all know how it goes.

Art, it's an assumption on my part to suggest the increase in ambient temps will increase the oil temps. I also assume that the higher the oil temps the thicker the viscosity of oil since it is multi-grade. Maybe someone more knowledgeable could enlighten me on the subject. Thicker oil = higher pressure? Higher pressure = higher/lower temps?

 

All I know presently is that the engine souuds better and runs cooler under similar conditions with the 10w - 40. Gas mileage? I'll let you know in a couple weeks, after the trip down to SLO for the West Coast gathering. Are you coming?

 

 

 

Art, the 10w - 40 is Brad Penn as well. Reasonably priced through Amazon Prime, although I purchased it locally from my buddy, Tony Murjano.

I know Valvoline VR-1 is not available in that grade, only 20w-50 and 10w-30.

 

Well, Al, a mere twenty dollars to get enrolled as a preferred Amsoil wholesale customer sounds like a a terrific deal....and WIX filters too?

 

Maybe this guy has an inside track on scissor lifts & two posters?

Terry, it's good that you'll be recording performance information on the 10w40 over a period of time... I believe that we have similar engines...(2110 44 Webers)... and I intend to do the same since switching over to 10w30 this week.

 

Let's compare this information later in the summer.

If 10w40 seems to perform better, then I think I know someone who can get me a decent deal on some 10w40...plus a WIX 5151!!!

Terry, thanks for all the info.  I have no records of what my car is running on.  It was changed very recently by the seller.  We won't be able to make SLO, our dog is in chemo therapy.

I agree with your first statement with a qualification; most of the time there is enough reserve in the cooling system that it isn't really noticeable, and whether it's enough to be measurable with the gauges we use is (I think) up for debate. I've read (on the Samba, by someone I believe knows what they're talking about) the doghouse cooling system can cool a 75 or 80hp engine under continuous full load conditions. This of course assumes proper air/fuel ratios and enough air intake into the engine compartment so operating temps don't skyrocket beyond normal parameters. Pushing a beetle down a flat highway at a constant 60mph (with no headwind) only takes about  18 or so hp (so the gas pedal isn't even near full throttle) means the cooling system is still more than capable. Depending on the engine, it could still be running on the carb's idle circuit(s). So, while higher ambient temps mean slightly less heat transfer from the engine to the cooling air, even driving across Death Valley at 120'F outside is possible.

 

Now, drive the same car at 75mph across the 120' desert floor and do you think it will make it? Wind resistance cubes (I believe) as the speed goes up and the cooling system has to be operating at near to or full capacity, and will it be enough, or will it die partway across of thermal overload?

 

My point is, if you know your car and can hear what it's saying when it's talking to you, you'd know that the 2nd scenario is somewhat risky (and dangerous, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms...).

 

2nd statement- Do you mean the oil viscosity continually varies with temp to it's maximum? I'm under the impression that at below about 170'F the oil is the lower weight and above it turns into the higher weight- no real in-between. Depending on the oil, at about 240-260?' it starts to thin out again, and I believe the higher temps break down the additives faster. Can anyone else shed some light here?

 

Thicker oil does generally equal higher pressure, but if (especially at start-up and immediately therafter) it's too thick to flow properly until it's super heated by the bearing and main or rod journal, that can't be good either (for the oil or the parts).

 

Whether higher pressure = higher or lower oil temps- While the oil has to be thick enough to prevent contact of bearings and rotating parts, the simple act of pumping any fluid creates heat, and pumping a heavier fluid creates more heat (whether it can be measured I don't know, but wouldn't that be a great discussion!), so there has to be a balance. It has to be heavy enough to lubricate and protect parts, yet thin enough to lubricate at start-up and not bypass the cooler at sustained highway speeds. The oil and cooling systems in these engines work reasonably well, and when combined with some modifications (full flow filter, sump, Hoover mods, piston squirters, extra cooler with thermostat) will take care of an engine that produces 2, 3, and even 4 times the power of the original 1600 on which it is based.

 

Just a thought- When you've done everything you can so your engine cools properly and you still want to run harder when it's really hot out but your engine's telling you to cut it out? Water injection into the air cooling stream at the fan intake-

 http://www.seinesystems.com/MPC-Home.htm

I've just seen their web page, but doesn't that look promising!

 

And a couple pics of what a vintage racer did to ensure enough air into the engine compartment. Note the size of the tube and opening into the engine compartment, and the fact that the intake is up front, ensuring the engine a good supply of the coldest air possible.

 

 

I ended up ordering a case (24) of Swepco 306 dino oil.

Definitely not cheap, at $12 per liter, after taxes and hazardous shipping costs.

That's double the cost of my VR1 dino oil, but search as I might, I can't find anyone local who sells VR1  10W-30.

With my Big front oil cooler and sump I'll probably go through 7 or 8 liters per oil change, so it won't take me long to go through 24 litres.

Did you check with Lordco?

Hello Ron,

 

SPECTRO (petroleum/Dino) SAE 10w30 might be an alternative.

 

They're located a few miles from me and have a good reputation with motorcyclists...(lots of ZDDP...1800ppm of zinc and phosphorus)

They may have distribution in the B.C. area because they're aggressively expanding into the flat tappet raucous Harley market!!

 

I.L.C, 993 Federal Road, Brookfield CT 06804

Phone (800)243-8645...Fax (203) 775-8720

 

 

Back from SLO. Not so scientific results using Brad Penn 10w-40:

 

On the way down the ambient temps ranged from 58 - 90 degrees. Average speed was 70mph. Highest oil temp was 195. Lowest oil pressure was 8lbs per 1,000 rpm. I averaged 29 mpg

 

On the way back the first 40 miles were at 70 degree temps. Then it started climbing. By the time I got to Vacaville my thermometer registered 110 degrees in the cockpit. My average speed was 70 mph. Oil temps got as high as 230. CHT as high as 350. The oil pressure gauge must have been overheating because the needle kept moving up and down while the revs stayed constant. Maybe I was overheated and was seeing things. I had a bit of oil slinging from the crank pulley. I pulled over a couple times to let Penny cool down a bit. By the time I reached home I felt like a rotisserie chicken - Penny was still running strong. 

 

My conclusion is that the lighter weight oil works better than the 20w-50 I was using before.

But running an air-cooled engine in 100+ degree weather for 5+ hours is a stupid thing to do.

Al, I've searched all the automotive outlets in town for Valvoline VR1-no luck.

I've also got a case of Brad Penn sitting in my shop, which I'll switch to when the engine is broken in.

Very interesting, Vince.

As usual, I see that you chose a perfect specimen for your studies.

Please remember to oil the frogs as well.

 

Terry

Where do you think the "perfect specimen" came from...

I had to kiss one of the frogs...

Here, I come with a bottle of Dawn dish soap.

I don't know Art, I kind of like her dirty......

I'll bet that removing the duct tape on that pretty young lady hurt her a bit, but I'm also sure that our Vince was ready, willing, and eager to kiss it and make it better.

Vinny- I'd like to see more of your "scientific testing"...