I was changing my oil and I realized that my year old vintage speedster does not have an oil screen. I removed the cover plate and the gasket but no screen. Is this normal? Thanks, Gary Turner
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I was changing my oil and I realized that my year old vintage speedster does not have an oil screen. I removed the cover plate and the gasket but no screen. Is this normal? Thanks, Gary Turner
Some engine builders will remove it, but ONLY if the engine's been fitted with an oil filter.
If you don't have a full flow oil filter on it - definately put one back in since it atleast catches the big pieces so you know you have a problem. Some like to remove what the factory engineers put in - guess they know more. I like the shroud cooling flaps and bellows thermostat too.
Gary,
the subject of the screen has come up several times. I have had problems with a screen on one of my engines, a problem that I was able to solve by removing the screen. Simply put, when my engine was cold the screen didn't pass enough oil to pump up all my hydraulic lifters. While investigating that problem I found that Gene Berg for one stated he "never built a performance engine with a screen".....
In my thinking if I had a stock or near stock engine, I would leave the screen in. Any engine that requires more oil flow for what ever reason, I would take the screen out. But, I also would not run such an engine with out an external oil filter....while in this area I also recommend a magnetic drain plug if you don't already have one. It is surprising how much steel fuzz is generated by these engines and I would rather have it stuck to a plug than in my mains..
the subject of the screen has come up several times. I have had problems with a screen on one of my engines, a problem that I was able to solve by removing the screen. Simply put, when my engine was cold the screen didn't pass enough oil to pump up all my hydraulic lifters. While investigating that problem I found that Gene Berg for one stated he "never built a performance engine with a screen".....
In my thinking if I had a stock or near stock engine, I would leave the screen in. Any engine that requires more oil flow for what ever reason, I would take the screen out. But, I also would not run such an engine with out an external oil filter....while in this area I also recommend a magnetic drain plug if you don't already have one. It is surprising how much steel fuzz is generated by these engines and I would rather have it stuck to a plug than in my mains..
All the above posts are correct. If your motor has a full-flow system you're home free but if not get a screen and install it right away.
Use a screen. If your cam starts going flat, or debris comes from anywhere else, the pieces go through your oil pump screwing up the pump. You won't notice anything wrong until the lack of oil toasts the entire engine. Usually at high revs. Use a screen.
Unless you are using 90wt oil, the screen shouldn't slow down the flow of oil.
Unless you are using 90wt oil, the screen shouldn't slow down the flow of oil.
Ron, while Gene Berg was not in his day un-opinionated he added a reat deal of enginering and knowledge to this sport. Of course he also built many hudreds if not thousands of engines, many of which are running today, so the man knew something...He was clear on the point of strainers, this is a direct quote lifted from the Berg website "Oil strainer information. An area of extreme importance. The inlet or suction side of any pump is extremely limited in what it can do as compared to the pressure side and should never be impaired in anyway, whereas the pressure side is capable of overcoming a great deal of extra resistance. For that reason, I have not used the stock oil strainer in any of my high performance street or race engines since 1966. I found that it often caused too much restriction on the suction side of the oil pump with a little higher performance and high RPM engines. This problem was traced to oil starvation and all out bearing and/or crankshaft failures from the oil not being able to pass through the stock restrictive oil strainer screen fast enough to provide adequate flow to the pump."
Based on what Gene and a couple of other builders also say, plus my own experience, I think I will stick with my recomdation, anything more than stock lose the strainer and do a full flow filter system.
Gene goes on to say "Contamination was a concern, however, all of my engines from 1961-on had full flow oil filters protecting the engine. Some concern about metal particles going into the oil pump before filtering was solved when I went to the farm supply house and bought a "cow" magnet that is about 1/2" round by 3" long. I hose clamped it on the outside of the pickup tube extension for the larger sump. I have used this configuration successfully for years over 30 years. For those that do not know, a cow magnet is what they feed the cows to pick up metal (such as broken barbed wire) from the stomach and pass it out of their system.
Another concern is the weight of the oil. Remember, the heavier the oil, the less it lubricates. We run 20 weight in our race engines and 10-30 weight in all street engines. Only if the temperature is constantly above 80-85 degrees would I consider 10-40 weight. 5-30 should be used when temperature falls to below 45 degrees. For freezing temperatures straight 10 weight would be my choice.
The point is, if bearing life is substandard or failures have occurred, these are items you should be looking at:
GB 212 Pickup tube magnet with clamp to attach to outside of deep sump pickup tube. Originated by Gene Berg in 1964."
Based on what Gene and a couple of other builders also say, plus my own experience, I think I will stick with my recomdation, anything more than stock lose the strainer and do a full flow filter system.
Gene goes on to say "Contamination was a concern, however, all of my engines from 1961-on had full flow oil filters protecting the engine. Some concern about metal particles going into the oil pump before filtering was solved when I went to the farm supply house and bought a "cow" magnet that is about 1/2" round by 3" long. I hose clamped it on the outside of the pickup tube extension for the larger sump. I have used this configuration successfully for years over 30 years. For those that do not know, a cow magnet is what they feed the cows to pick up metal (such as broken barbed wire) from the stomach and pass it out of their system.
Another concern is the weight of the oil. Remember, the heavier the oil, the less it lubricates. We run 20 weight in our race engines and 10-30 weight in all street engines. Only if the temperature is constantly above 80-85 degrees would I consider 10-40 weight. 5-30 should be used when temperature falls to below 45 degrees. For freezing temperatures straight 10 weight would be my choice.
The point is, if bearing life is substandard or failures have occurred, these are items you should be looking at:
GB 212 Pickup tube magnet with clamp to attach to outside of deep sump pickup tube. Originated by Gene Berg in 1964."
I agree the magnet can substitute for a screen, though I'm not sure I would put it on the pickup tube unless it was inspected and cleaned on a regular basis.
We used to use them on Racing and customer engines all the time here in the Northeast back in the days.....cleaned and replaced them on Racing engines at the end of every season, and recommended cleaning them on customer (street) engines every 50,000 miles. Never had a problem, although I didn't know Berg was selling them.
They cost about $1.50 each (but you'll need to buy two clamps, too) at farm supply stores (Tractor Supply, JSC, Agway, places like that, any place that sells bulk feed for dairy farmers).
There are two sizes - all you need is the smaller one, which is about the size of your index finger. Just tell'em you want a "Cow Magnet". They'll know.
They cost about $1.50 each (but you'll need to buy two clamps, too) at farm supply stores (Tractor Supply, JSC, Agway, places like that, any place that sells bulk feed for dairy farmers).
There are two sizes - all you need is the smaller one, which is about the size of your index finger. Just tell'em you want a "Cow Magnet". They'll know.
We use a "tuna can" and magnets on the high output race/street engines and haven't had a problem yet. Except we DO seem to blow up oil filters with some regularity. Hopefully the new pressure release Berg pump cover will take care of this for next season.
(If we EVER raced NOPI we'd be hung for all of our mishaps, luckily it's almost expected at Nostalgia Day or Gasser Wars and the like. Old race cars. like old dogs and old men, just seem to leak a little bit every now and again.)
This arrangement has worked for three years, day in and out, plus it's WAY easier to remove and check it than it would be with the mags strapped to the tube.
(If we EVER raced NOPI we'd be hung for all of our mishaps, luckily it's almost expected at Nostalgia Day or Gasser Wars and the like. Old race cars. like old dogs and old men, just seem to leak a little bit every now and again.)
This arrangement has worked for three years, day in and out, plus it's WAY easier to remove and check it than it would be with the mags strapped to the tube.
The next time you toss out a Hard Drive, rob the magnets out of it first.
If you're using a steel sump plate, stick them there (outside the motor). They're strong enough to work without risking having them inside the sump.
Greg B
TC,
may I recommend using a NAPA filter in place of the more common stuff? I think a 1515R is a replacement for a Fram HP1. I am about 6000 miles from my car so I am working from memory, which is not all it could be. I have never blown a NAPA racing filter and it does a far better job of filtering. At the risk of starting a religous war the Fram leaves a lot to be desired as can be investigated in detail on a couple of oil based web sites....I won't buy anymore of them as well as the more common stuff.....I am running 70 psi at operating temps, so cold, I would guess much higher is very possible....36mm gears....full flow
may I recommend using a NAPA filter in place of the more common stuff? I think a 1515R is a replacement for a Fram HP1. I am about 6000 miles from my car so I am working from memory, which is not all it could be. I have never blown a NAPA racing filter and it does a far better job of filtering. At the risk of starting a religous war the Fram leaves a lot to be desired as can be investigated in detail on a couple of oil based web sites....I won't buy anymore of them as well as the more common stuff.....I am running 70 psi at operating temps, so cold, I would guess much higher is very possible....36mm gears....full flow
To echo Jim Dubois' post. I've had good experience with the NAPA Filters since changing over last year.
Greg,
Great use for the rare earth magnets in a hard drive. They are many, many time stronger than conventional magnets. I have a couple old hard drives sitting around. I am going to give it shot. Thanks
-=theron
Great use for the rare earth magnets in a hard drive. They are many, many time stronger than conventional magnets. I have a couple old hard drives sitting around. I am going to give it shot. Thanks
-=theron