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Well here goes ! This week i put 64 miles on "Rhonda" with 7 oil temp. senders wired to a rotary switch to one gauge. This was done to reduce the cost of the test and to be able to scroll thru the different senders at will and log temps. at various places on my engine.  I can tell you now that I am surprised at my findings and that some of my preconceived findings were totally wrong.

Let me set some parameters of my test. I have a 2110cc, dual Weber carb. engine that dyno. tested at 140hp. Built by me. I have a new 36hp doghouse fan shroud with a std. 5 row internal oil cooler, no thermostat, no flaps, no sled tins. I have 1 5/8" heater boxes, 1 5/8" A-1 exhaust system. My carb. jets are 120 mains, .49 idle, 220 A/C s and F-11 emulsion tubes. My Plugs read coco brown and my exhaust is dark grey. My "Fast" air fuel ratio meter reads 13.8 to 1 and I get 23 mpg (if i don't have my foot in it. which is hard to do yet)

My gauges in the car are Dakota Digital CHT and Oil Temp. Both are accurate to within 2 to 3 degrees.I tested them on my stove with a pot of boiling water and a battery to 212 degrees F. I tested (and numbered) all 7 oil temp. senders. They are all within + or -3 degrees of 212.

Any morning I can walk out and look at a thermometer hanging on my garage in the shade an get a reading of what the current temperature is around my neighborhood. i use this as a standard when I initially turn on my ignition switch and read what the two Dakota gauges say. The Dakota Gauges are consistently indicating 3 degrees lower (with error corrections to the boiling water data for each sensor). Using the rotary switch while the engine is cold I can scroll thru each sensor and make the corrections. What I have done on the data submitted here is just average out those temps to make it easier to follow and there isn't that much variation anyway. The data below is what I have consistently recorded and averaged on 5 road tests in unusually hot weather even for out here in So Cal.

 

 

Average ambient air temp: 93 F.    Average cold engine temp at gauges before start-up: CHT 89 F.   Oil temp. 90 F.

 

                                                        Cylinder head temps. at time of data logging

 

Oil temp sender locations           Street CHT: 337        Freeway CHT: 333       5 min. Idle CHT: 330

 

Thin Line Sump          152 F.          157 F.          170 F.

 

Rear oil pressure relief valve          175 F.          182 F.          170 F.

 

Type 3 dip stick block-off plate          188 F.          189 F.          185 F.

 

External oil cooler in          180 F.          192 F.          174 F.

 

External oil cooler out          173 F.          187 F.          163 F.

 

Dog house oil cooler in          163          172 F.             150 F.

 

Dog house oil cooler out                     162 F.                    171 F.                        151 F.    

 

 

 

  Notes about what the above data tell me:

 

 1.  The doghouse cooler isn't reducing the oil temp. that much at any speed. This was a big surprise for me.

 

 2.    The external oil cooler does a better job of cooling the oil

 

 3.   The oil temp gets reduced more up by traveling thru the hoses and crankcase from the external cooler to the doghouse cooler.

 

 4. The Thin Line sump is the worst place to monitor oil temps. I believe that cool air flow over the surface of this sump gives faulty readings but  does contribute to cooling the oil in the sump.

 

 5. The rear pressure relief valve give accurate readings but because the oil has to slowly reach around the plunger to give the sensor a change in temp. it is always lagging in giving an accurate and timely reading. I noticed that sometimes it was lagging as much as 15 degrees.

 

 6. The Type 3 dip stick block-off plate allows it's sender to have excellent access to the oil temp in the crank case. It gave more accurate and faster change readings than the External oil cooler inlet readings which had a chance to cool somewhat thru the oil filter before reaching the oil sender just in front of the External oil cooler.

 

 7. The External oil cooler does a better job of cooling the oil than the stock oil cooler. (Mine is located in the left rear fenderwell) The temp sender on the inlet side would be my next choice of placement as it is receiving the oil directly from the pump and sump. It reacts to changes in oil temp rapidly.

 

 8. When I think about how that gallon or so of oil circulates thru the engine in seconds and that the stock oil cooler is like a thick core radiator with only about 20% of the fans air directed to it, I can see why it doesn't have a chance to cool the oil very much. Plus some of the oil is bypassed by the front relief valve.

 

 9. I did not choose to put a sender in the bung for the oil pressure sending unit. I think it is a poor place to do so because it would practically have no contact with any oil flow and at best would give you crankcase metal temperature only. I know that a lot of people put them there but i just think that there are better places on the engine to install one. As a mater of fact, there is a stock plug about 2 inches from the oil pressure port and on top of the crankcase that would be a much better alternative. But it could only be installed when you have the crankcase apart to prevent metal shavings from getting into the oil galley and to insure you don't insert it to far into the oil galley to impair oil flow.

 

That's if folks. The following are photos of just where I installed the senders on the engine.........Bruce

 

 

 

Attachments

Images (6)
  • oil cool adapt1: Welded bungs for temp senders
  • temp sender 1
  • temp sender 2
  • temp sender 3-4: where temp senders on cooler adapter protrude for wire connection
  • temp sender 5
  • temp sender 6-7
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Very interesting results, Bruce. What weight oil are you using? You did mention the engine had Webers- 40's or 44's? How high does the engine rev with power (or better yet, do you know the cam/rocker combo in it)? Compression ratio? How would you describe lower rpm "driveability". Do you feel when the rpm's are high enough and the powerband "comes on" the cam, or is the power more linear? At what rpm's (or range) was the part of the test run at? I think a valuable test would be to put sled tins on it and see what (if anything changes).

 

Even though the data is a little hard to read (and thank you for re-formatting it), your observations and pics in this thread are still valuable- maybe ask Theron to combine the 2 results threads?

AL....Thankyou for the kind words. Sorry I was so late last night to get something out there. Hope I didn't keep you up. Even the second try at the data was not very good but if you look at the columns, the first one on the left is street driving, next is freeway and the last column on the right is a five minute idle period. On top of each column I logged the CHT before I scrolled thru the temps.

 

I totally left out the parameters of the drive as well. Street test was stop and go traffic for about 3 miles after warm up.

Freeway test was at 72 mph on mostly flat road for about 5 miles. Then home again. It's more or less a loop trip

I have 4.12 R&P and .82 4th so 72mph on my rig works out to about 3200 rpm.

 

I have Weber 44s with 32mm venturi's which makes in-town driveability pleasing.  On cold startup I get some hic-ups until until CHT reaches 250F. Idle speed can be adjusted down to 500 pretty easy but I prefer 800 because it sounds better.

The cam has 262 duration and .454 lift with stock 1:1-1 rockers and nearly 1/2" lift at the valve, double valve springs, light pushrods and lifters. Comp. ratio is approx. 8.5 to 1 and mini wedge port heads. On the dyno it turned 132 hp at 6000 but usually max HP readings on dynos are "flash readings" and sort of meant to impress more than have value. (sorry, I said 140 in another post so I was probably wearing baseball gloves while typing that)

I have not knowingly hit 6000rpm yet but i think it was flattening out at about 5800. Just been busy with all this other stuff and I only have about 1500 miles on it now so that will come later.

Sled tins....Would be an inexpensive test so maybe I'll put some on. Why do you ask? Do you have idea/opinion you wish to verify?

 

On another note. I extended the fuel tank vent hose down lower so that the "slosh" would spill out under the car but i still get fumes. What is the check valve some of us talk about to cure this? I went to a motorcycle shop to see one and the guy didn't know what I was talking about. I figured that if he didn't know that... I was in the wrong place.  Well....gotta go outside and play......Bruce

 

Originally Posted by aircooled (Bruce):
 7. The External oil cooler does a better job of cooling the oil than the stock oil cooler. (Mine is located in the left rear fenderwell) The temp sender on the inlet side would be my next choice of placement as it is receiving the oil directly from the pump and sump. It reacts to changes in oil temp rapidly.

 

 8. When I think about how that gallon or so of oil circulates thru the engine in seconds and that the stock oil cooler is like a thick core radiator with only about 20% of the fans air directed to it, I can see why it doesn't have a chance to cool the oil very much. Plus some of the oil is bypassed by the front relief valve.

 

The stock cooler never actually gets a chance to do much with your setup. The oil has already been cooled by the external cooler and because the bypass valve is pressure controlled, the already cool oil (excessively cool in my opinion) is routed around it most of the time anyway. You would need to remove the external cooler to determine anything about the efficiency of the stock cooler. In my opinion, you need to add a bypass thermostat to your external oil cooler to help maintain a proper higher oil temperature.

Bill...Yes. I think it's the most suitable place and gives the fastest changes in temps. If you have that block-off plate, just drill and tap a hole in it for your sender at the lowest part that still allows the sender bulb to clear the lower part of the hole under the block-off plate.

If you do not have that block-off plate it's a totally different story and can be installed but would require engine dis-assembly to safely insure no metal chips from drilling and tapping would get into your sump. If your lucky and have one of those, no longer made, dipstick temp senders, your already there.

I am still totally amazed at what's actually going on and when, inside my engine oil system......Bruce

Hi Justin.... I think you might have something there about using a thermal bypass on the external oil cooler. It's on my list. It was very evident during warm up that the oil was just flowing thru the external cooler (fan off) and I could see the temp rise, gradually reaching the 180F mark. At approx. 182F the cooler fan comes on and I could see the temp. drop. At that time the engine cooler had a wider gap in it's in/out temps.(4F.)

The external cooler fan does not shut down until the oil temp gets to 169F. To find this out I had to shut down the engine, let it cool a little then start again and let the cool oil circulate and take readings. It took a little playing around to stabilize the temps but I couldn't see any other way to find out. The engine just wouldn't cool down enough at idle to get that cooler fan to shut off.........Bruce

"I extended the fuel tank vent hose down lower so that the "slosh" would spill out under the car but i still get fumes. What is the check valve some of us talk about to cure this?" 

 

http://www.cyclegear.com/TRACK...ube-with-Check-Valve

 

Pull off the two inch piece of tubing they supply and throw it away.  Put the valve on the end of the hose coming off of your tank where the cap is at and quit fuming about it.  (See what I did there)

 

I also looped my fuel line up and over the hood hinge which helps also.

 

Here's a previous blog about it:

 

https://www.speedsterowners.com...6#442091980995399716

Originally Posted by Robert McEwen:

"I extended the fuel tank vent hose down lower so that the "slosh" would spill out under the car but i still get fumes. What is the check valve some of us talk about to cure this?" 

 

http://www.cyclegear.com/TRACK...ube-with-Check-Valve

 

Pull off the two inch piece of tubing they supply and throw it away.  Put the valve on the end of the hose coming off of your tank where the cap is at and quit fuming about it.  (See what I did there)

 

I also looped my fuel line up and over the hood hinge which helps also.

 

Here's a previous blog about it:

 

https://www.speedsterowners.com...6#442091980995399716

Same here and ran the vent hose to the rear passenger wheel, no more fumes

Last edited by Bill Prout
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