Engine smell electrical/metal

As an amendment - My wife says it smells more like a burnt smell than electrical but then my nose is terrible when it comes to trying to distinguish odors.

Check all wiring, Look for something on the exhaust system.

Brakes dragging?  Have you touched or got close to drums/discs after spirited driving?  Touch wheel first before the drum (from experience). 

See if you can get it up on a lift or jack stands and see if the valve covers are leaking oil onto the heater boxes.   The oil then smolders on the boxes and gives off a "burnt" smell.   The solution is new valve cover gaskets, properly installed.

Chris,

Do you drive with the lights on? If so check the temperature of the headlight switch. The switch is the weak link here and when mine got hot it had a similar smell to it and I found it quite quickly. I reached under the dash and touched the back of all the electrical components that I could. When I touched the headlight it was really hot. Added relays and I haven't had a problem. So I'd check over all of the electrical components first.

Check all the ground wires, check the alternator wire, feel along exposed wires and see if any feel abnormally hot. If the battery is being overcharged it can smell but that is usually more of a sulfur like smell.

And as Bill said, make sure nothing is touching the exhaust or that nothing has stuck to the exhaust. I had a plastic bag get caught up in my motorcycle exhaust once. It melted and fell off but there was plastic residue stuck to the pipe that was a booger to clean off. Smelled like plastic melting even after I got it off.

WOLFGANG posted:

Brakes dragging?  Have you touched or got close to drums/discs after spirited driving?  Touch wheel first before the drum (from experience). 

There are disc brakes on my car. Not sure what you mean here by "touch wheel first before the drum"? Can you explain in a dumbed down non-mechanical step-by-step suggestion. The brakes seem to work fine. I stopped quickly the other day when someone braked for a pedestrian (So little time and so many pedestrians) and also the other day when I had to dodge a deer. Fawn came running out of nowhere. He survived and I recovered.

But I am intrigued by your answer I just need some simpler and more detailed reference to your suggestion.

Gordon Nichols posted:

See if you can get it up on a lift or jack stands and see if the valve covers are leaking oil onto the heater boxes.   The oil then smolders on the boxes and gives off a "burnt" smell.   The solution is new valve cover gaskets, properly installed.

Could be this (above) as I had a new German swing axle gasket installed on the right rear wheel area and the mechanic had some trouble with it.

Robert M posted:

Chris,

Do you drive with the lights on? If so check the temperature of the headlight switch. The switch is the weak link here and when mine got hot it had a similar smell to it and I found it quite quickly. I reached under the dash and touched the back of all the electrical components that I could. When I touched the headlight it was really hot. Added relays and I haven't had a problem. So I'd check over all of the electrical components first.

Check all the ground wires, check the alternator wire, feel along exposed wires and see if any feel abnormally hot. If the battery is being overcharged it can smell but that is usually more of a sulfur like smell.

And as Bill said, make sure nothing is touching the exhaust or that nothing has stuck to the exhaust. I had a plastic bag get caught up in my motorcycle exhaust once. It melted and fell off but there was plastic residue stuck to the pipe that was a booger to clean off. Smelled like plastic melting even after I got it off.

I do drive with the headlights on. Usually high beam even during the day. I don't drive to often in the evening. So I will check this the next time I am out. Thanks.

Confirm a good ground and use a relay.

Chris, as Robert and Alan note, the headlight switch and lack of a proper relay are famous trouble points on the VS - although both are easily fixed. Many of us don't drive after dark much, so this never becomes an issue.

Obviously, the easiest test is to go for a drive with the lights off and see if the smell is still there.

If it turns out to be the light circuit, there are many threads in the archives here about what to do.

Right after you stop the car after a spirited drive, walk around the car and touch all four wheels. If any of them are really hot then you've got a brake shoe or pad dragging. A little warm is fine. A significant difference between wheels the story.

Your first post didn't state type brakes. Often folks have discs front and drum rear (or all drum or all disc).  I've has the piston(s) freeze on a caliper where a pad drags and makes the rotor red hot. Had I touched the rotor I would have severely burned end of finger.  Fortunately for me I smelled the heat and touched the wheel near by instead.  Same can happen on drum brakes - often there when shoes are adjusted too tight or emergency brake hung up. On even rear disc brakes there could be a brake shoe with a brake drum used for the parking/emergency brake.  An old internally collapsed rubber brake hose can keep pressure on brake pads (or shoes if drum) too.

Wimsey356 (Chris) posted:

Robert M posted:

Chris,

Do you drive with the lights on? If so check the temperature of the headlight switch. The switch is the weak link here and when mine got hot it had a similar smell to it and I found it quite quickly. I reached under the dash and touched the back of all the electrical components that I could. When I touched the headlight it was really hot. Added relays and I haven't had a problem. So I'd check over all of the electrical components first.

Check all the ground wires, check the alternator wire, feel along exposed wires and see if any feel abnormally hot. If the battery is being overcharged it can smell but that is usually more of a sulfur like smell.

And as Bill said, make sure nothing is touching the exhaust or that nothing has stuck to the exhaust. I had a plastic bag get caught up in my motorcycle exhaust once. It melted and fell off but there was plastic residue stuck to the pipe that was a booger to clean off. Smelled like plastic melting even after I got it off.

I do drive with the headlights on. Usually high beam even during the day. I don't drive to often in the evening. So I will check this the next time I am out. Thanks.

Whatever the cause is when you find the cure let us know.

By the way, I really like the motor with matching paint but that loom on the plug wires has to go. 

Interesting method of getting more air in the engine compartment as well. I hadn't noticed the louvered plate before.

I put a louvered firewall plate on my Baja Bug, many years ago.  This one, like mine, is probably just attached to a solid wall.

edsnova posted:

Right after you stop the car after a spirited drive, walk around the car and touch all four wheels. If any of them are really hot then you've got a brake shoe or pad dragging. A little warm is fine. A significant difference between wheels the story.

Tested this method out but not the case here. No heat.

crhemi (Bill) poboiinhawaii posted:

By the way, I really like the motor with matching paint but that loom on the plug wires has to go. 

Thanks regarding the paint match. Not my doing but I like it also. What do you suggest regarding the "loom" on the plug wires. Any ideas, and pictures to show what it could look like. I am a visual guy.

Ron O posted:

I put a louvered firewall plate on my Baja Bug, many years ago.  This one, like mine, is probably just attached to a solid wall.

The louvered plate firewall is attached to a solid wall. Whoever put the car together did the louvered firewall as well as side walls left and right and a piece down near the bottom of the engine compartment all in chrome. Fun to clean before a car show but looks great.

Sacto Mitch posted:

 

Chris, as Robert and Alan note, the headlight switch and lack of a proper relay are famous trouble points on the VS - although both are easily fixed. Many of us don't drive after dark much, so this never becomes an issue.

Obviously, the easiest test is to go for a drive with the lights off and see if the smell is still there.

If it turns out to be the light circuit, there are many threads in the archives here about what to do.

 

Not the lights. I drove with the lights on regular, as well as high beam during the day and felt all around behind the dash and up under the light switch but no excessive heat. So ruled that one out.

So after a mechanic took a look I think we know the cause. The winner goes to whoever guessed dripping oil. We added some dye to the oil and I have done some spirited driving. Great winding road with hills and curves from Lake Cowichan to Port Renfrew (Vancouver Island BC). Lots of 3rd and 2nd gear shifting. The car goes back to the mechanic on Monday and with a black light we can trace the dye to where the slow leak is coming from. But there were drips along the muffler and a lot of oil on the rear brake pads (so much so that my parking break was not holding). After cleaning up the oil the parking break now functions perfectly and after our drive yesterday (4 hours on the road) the smell was about 90% gone once I parked it in the garage.

The mechanic suspects a bolt near a rod and casing? (sorry I am completely non-mechanical) anyway he showed me photos of everything that he took on his phone when the car was on the hoist. I have taken my car to this guy a few times and trust him. We often take our vehicles to the same car shows etc. and the car always runs well after he has worked on it and his cost is honest and fair. I got burned for $1200 for next to no work being done by I "professional" place.

The mechanic I go to wants to make sure the dye will lead him back to the suspected leaking bolt first before he tries to take things apart. So at this point it could be anything from a cracked and dried out ring, gasket, seal of some type to the screw or something in that area being cracked or just loose.

Stay tuned until Tuesday for the continuing saga of this event. And cross your fingers for me that the cost is not exorbitant.

In the mean time should it stop leaking, do check to make sure you have oil :!)

Alan Merklin posted:

In the mean time should it stop leaking, do check to make sure you have oil :!)

 

Yes, thanks, I have checked with my dip stick and also that thing you pull out to see how far up the thingy that the oily mark makes.

Let me add something here, going off your first remark that it did not smell like oil or burnt wires: "It smells a bit electrical or like a tin metal smell. NOT oil or gas smell."  OK.  This engine is air cooled and is made out of aluminum mostly and in fact some tin, which is to say sheet metal.  when it gets hot, it gives off a distinct aroma (note I did not say odor).  I have come to recognize this as completely normal.  I had two 356s back in the day, and now the Speedster.  And as I said, I came to recognize early on this aroma as hot aluminum, and maybe other metal things.  I will often stick my nose down at the rear engine lid grill after running and the engine is off and take a whiff, just to see if things smell "normal"  Also, depending on what carbs you have, there could be some gasoline smells after it's parked in the garage hot.  A little boil-off of gas in the float chambers as the carbs get hot from the engine.  In both cases, these are normal.

Not to say there may not be an oil leak somewhere. These engines, no matter how well made, will leak (ooze??) oil a bit here and there.  Again, considered normal.

Thank you so much for your reply. It was very informative. I am learning new things all the time with these cars. The learning curve is steep. The oil leak was coming from the left Webber twin carb. I have been told I have the better quality Webber carbs on the car - what ever that means.  I have posted a new topic on whether to import a "new" engine from the US or buy a Chinese made one here in Canada. The new topic relates to the follow up on my engine smell.

Wimsey356 (Chris) posted:

Alan Merklin posted:

In the mean time should it stop leaking, do check to make sure you have oil :!)

 

Yes, thanks, I have checked with my dip stick and also that thing you pull out to see how far up the thingy that the oily mark makes.

Allan in looking back at my comment about the dip stick it came off sounding a little snarky rather than humorous. My apology.

all is good :~)

Hmmm . . . wondering how a carburetor leaks oil . . .

I was wondering that too. Breather hose?  New engine? I missed something.

There was a time long ago ,in a place not so far away , when all cars smelled like that. Jus' sayin'

Al, you are right.  They say that the sense of smell is our most basic and primal sense, with neurons hooked up way down deep.  It is why smells can evoke strong and primal memories.  All of which tends to explain the secrets known and exploited in the perfume industry, but I digress.  As mentioned, early on I came to recognize and understand what a properly functioning air-cooled aluminum block and steel cylinder barrel engine smelled like.  When I get that in the nose nowadays, it takes me back to yesteryear in an instant.  Also the whine of the engine, which is close, but not quite the same as my old P-cars.

So maybe Ed can start another sideline: Eau de Type-1 -?-

... and, if there is enough oil going into the carb via the breather to cause it too leak out the gaskets or other ports, then there really is some serious trouble here.  [Note: if that much, how well could that carb be working??] The other thread about all of this is diving deeper, and I hope a good diagnosis comes out of that.  Suffice to say, this engine is not quite right, and might be REALLY wrong, just can't tell which yet.