Has anyone heard of installing a Subaru Turbo in a Speedster. I am interested in any info. Thank you..
Dave B
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Has anyone heard of installing a Subaru Turbo in a Speedster. I am interested in any info. Thank you..
Dave B
Dave B
there is some information from a guy at ricola.com who once did it..........but, if you really wanted it done right you could look into local sandrail shops I guess they do it all the time. For a brand new one currently being built use the link at the top of the page to specialty autoworks they have a limited availabily listed on the subaru turbocharged and are doing the non turbo version as standard equipment.
David.
There is a guy here in OKC that I just recently heard was doing a Suby into a CMC. I'll do my best to get you some type of contact info. I don't know about the year/type or turbo/non, but do know a way to get info. I'll try and get it to you with some calls. Jim
There is a guy here in OKC that I just recently heard was doing a Suby into a CMC. I'll do my best to get you some type of contact info. I don't know about the year/type or turbo/non, but do know a way to get info. I'll try and get it to you with some calls. Jim
I am not sure that a conversion from a VW-based to a Subaru-based 356A is a good way to go. SAW basically created its design from the ground up. SAW is a mid-engine concept, while VW-based configurations are rear engines. I think there may be more involved here than folks realize. I would think that a better option would be to try and get a good price for the old (almost new) car and then order one from SAW. However, it is not clear to me why you wish to make the conversion. Both cars would seem to fill a certain niche.
What kind of a "damn the torpedos, full steam ahead" attitude is THAT?
A Subaru is, basically, a water-boxer. In other words, it is a water cooled, horizontally opposed, 2 litre VW/Boxer engine that just happens to be licensed from VW and manufactured by Subaru. It is, basically, the same as a type 4, with water jacketed cylinders and no fan housing (making it a lower profile, like a type 3, but basically the same front-to-back length and overall weight).
All you really need to do is fab up a set of hangers for the radiator and cooling hoses, and get an adapter plate for the engine-to-transmission interface (which exists from several sources or you can easily make one from 3/8" steel plate) and put it all together. OK, so it may be a TAD more complicated than that, but I can't imagine a whole lot standing in the way. You sure as heck don't need anything more than a "normal" late 60's VW pan to hold it all together unless you put a WRX turbo-rocket engine in there.
The advantage to the SAW approach is solving the same problem that Porsche was toying with when they built the 550 Spyder - improving weight distribution to make it handle flatter. Both Porsche and SAW solved the problem with a mid-engine design (which was actually easier for SAW, since they took an entire Subaru front end - includng transmission and drive axles - and mounted it all in the REAR like a Fiero. This is not to say that the rear-engine design is BAD, just not as neutral-handling as a middy (DUH!).
The REAL advantage to going with Subaru, is (beyond the obvious improved engine cooling and cockpit heating) similar engine charistics to the original VW engine (the crank even turns in the same direction), but with a much improved induction system (with electronic fuel injection for starters) and the potential for GREATLY improved horsepower/performance, right out of the box. The Subaru designers have also beefed up the engine case a la the Type 4, so it's much stronger than what we're used to with a type 1 case. Hell, just dropping in an engine from a Forester would give you over 130 hp and you haven't even thought about turbo charging yet! This sounds like a VERY easy conversion for a Speedster, and might make a lot of sense.
I'm glad that there are still guys out there willing to try shoe-horning a Buick 389 V8 into an Austin Healey 3000 like I did in the late 60's, or all those guys on a web site listed above that have put all manner of foreign engines into VW Old-Beetle sedans just to see what would happen. Sure, Carrol Shelby had MASSIVE axle-hop with his first AC-based Cobras, but he solved it, AND his understeer problems, too, to produce one hell of a great road racing car. Maybe someone will do the same with a rear-engined suby-tub (OK, so it'll NEVER be a hell-of-a-great road racer, but if it were as good handling as what we have now, we've gained more power and reliability, right?)
Dos centavos de los "Speedah Guys" desde Rhode Island
A Subaru is, basically, a water-boxer. In other words, it is a water cooled, horizontally opposed, 2 litre VW/Boxer engine that just happens to be licensed from VW and manufactured by Subaru. It is, basically, the same as a type 4, with water jacketed cylinders and no fan housing (making it a lower profile, like a type 3, but basically the same front-to-back length and overall weight).
All you really need to do is fab up a set of hangers for the radiator and cooling hoses, and get an adapter plate for the engine-to-transmission interface (which exists from several sources or you can easily make one from 3/8" steel plate) and put it all together. OK, so it may be a TAD more complicated than that, but I can't imagine a whole lot standing in the way. You sure as heck don't need anything more than a "normal" late 60's VW pan to hold it all together unless you put a WRX turbo-rocket engine in there.
The advantage to the SAW approach is solving the same problem that Porsche was toying with when they built the 550 Spyder - improving weight distribution to make it handle flatter. Both Porsche and SAW solved the problem with a mid-engine design (which was actually easier for SAW, since they took an entire Subaru front end - includng transmission and drive axles - and mounted it all in the REAR like a Fiero. This is not to say that the rear-engine design is BAD, just not as neutral-handling as a middy (DUH!).
The REAL advantage to going with Subaru, is (beyond the obvious improved engine cooling and cockpit heating) similar engine charistics to the original VW engine (the crank even turns in the same direction), but with a much improved induction system (with electronic fuel injection for starters) and the potential for GREATLY improved horsepower/performance, right out of the box. The Subaru designers have also beefed up the engine case a la the Type 4, so it's much stronger than what we're used to with a type 1 case. Hell, just dropping in an engine from a Forester would give you over 130 hp and you haven't even thought about turbo charging yet! This sounds like a VERY easy conversion for a Speedster, and might make a lot of sense.
I'm glad that there are still guys out there willing to try shoe-horning a Buick 389 V8 into an Austin Healey 3000 like I did in the late 60's, or all those guys on a web site listed above that have put all manner of foreign engines into VW Old-Beetle sedans just to see what would happen. Sure, Carrol Shelby had MASSIVE axle-hop with his first AC-based Cobras, but he solved it, AND his understeer problems, too, to produce one hell of a great road racing car. Maybe someone will do the same with a rear-engined suby-tub (OK, so it'll NEVER be a hell-of-a-great road racer, but if it were as good handling as what we have now, we've gained more power and reliability, right?)
Dos centavos de los "Speedah Guys" desde Rhode Island
Gord; talking about engine swaps; do you remember the Corvair conversions in the '60's & '70's? I think those engines are kind of cool; it's a shame Ralph Nader appeared on the scene and killed them (no political undertones)....
I agree with Gordon, you got the car already, just modify it. These cars are replicas or custom cars, have fun with it. I keep reading posts on how Porsche owners frown upon us, not to mention the uproar when adding a Porsche badge is brought up, yet deviations from making it look authentic get the same reaction or are ignored (Joe Soltis had to point out his air ducts to get any feedback). The bottom line is that a Subaru Turbo EJ20T will fit with room to spare, KEP sells the kit with adapter plate and flywheel and also has the wiring diagrams to modify the harness. The radiator can easily be put up front, or with a bit more fabrication, in the rear wheelwells. After that you have a car the is reliable for hundreds of thousands of miles, has a potential 0-60 of just over 4 secs, has heat and air conditioning, and if you are doing it yourself, cheaper than any modified vw engine. There is plenty of info on how to do this on the web, look for bug, sandrail, or especially bus conversions. This site has it specifically done to a Speedster (www.ricola.co.uk), and he did it in his back yard. If you want some more links, email me and I will send them over.
It seems to me that Gordon just supported my contention that there may be more involved that folks realize. I think there is a difference between doing it yourself or having to pay a professional to do it for you. Many assemblers are probably unwilling to tackle something they are unfamiliar with. On the other hand, if you have the skills and are willing to accept the possible down time involved in the conversion, certainly one can have at it. My experience with this type of customization is that you had better know the possible costs before undertaking such a project. I believe my original suggestion remains sound if you don't have the skills or desire to minimize the down time.
I agree with Charles, that it is possible, but not very cost effective if you were going to pay someone else to do it. If I had the talent to do it myself I would be tempted, because of the more reliable engine and better hp. But in the end I think it would be easier for me to just by a brand new SAW cabriolet.
I'm not sure how easy it would be but, everyone seems to leave out the fuel system upgrades for the fuel injection, maybe this isn't that big of a deal compared to doing the engine swap.
I'm not sure how easy it would be but, everyone seems to leave out the fuel system upgrades for the fuel injection, maybe this isn't that big of a deal compared to doing the engine swap.
This is the video that convinced me:
www.freddydynamite.com/images/subaruengine.avi
www.freddydynamite.com/images/subaruengine.avi
Ricardo - Ralph Nadar did not kill the Corvair, General Motors did. That is a popular misconception. I worked at Fisher Body Central, right next door to Chevrolet Engineering in Warren, Mich during that era. Drove a '62 swing axle, and later a '65 IRS. By the time that Nader book got published, Chevrolet had all ready intoduced the IRs models. But the President of GM was running scared, in fear that Ed Cole of Chevrolet was going to take his job away from him. So the Pres had the bean counters kill the Corvair by not funding further development, and never trying to rebute the Nader charges. It worked. Just a few years later, the early smog controls killed of any possibility of air cooled engines being legal without a lot of capital investment in engine development. GM does not like capital investment. That is why I left. That is why the Japanese took a huge bite out GMs ass. That is why GM has moved from 65% market share back then to about 38% or so today.
p.s. I got my '65 to corner so hard that I tore the spot welds out of the rear suspewnsion mounting points. That was fun.
p.s. I got my '65 to corner so hard that I tore the spot welds out of the rear suspewnsion mounting points. That was fun.
A company here in the UK specializes in fitting Subaru engines to VWs, and regularly advertise in UltraVW magazine. Their website is www.tsrdragracers.co.uk and might be worth a look for information.
(I have never dealt with this company; neither do I have any association with them)
(I have never dealt with this company; neither do I have any association with them)
Wow David! Thanks for your great insight! That's why I love this site so much...I learn a lot from all of you here!!! Corvairs are pretty cool cars don't you think?
Ricardo - my Corvair was purchased used for $1500, driven by me for 250,000 miles and sold - still in running condition - for $500. Try that for value received!
Now for the bad news. Three engine rebuilds. Originally 98 horsepower. Two speed automatic (no "park" position, you better trust the hand brake!). Bench seat. I kept waiting for the damn thing to die so I could get rid of it. It never once stranded me. It was absolutely the most reliable piece of transporation I ever owned. But towards the end, I was working on it every weekend, so I finally sold it. I think a lot of you VW guys probably had similar experiences.
Now for the bad news. Three engine rebuilds. Originally 98 horsepower. Two speed automatic (no "park" position, you better trust the hand brake!). Bench seat. I kept waiting for the damn thing to die so I could get rid of it. It never once stranded me. It was absolutely the most reliable piece of transporation I ever owned. But towards the end, I was working on it every weekend, so I finally sold it. I think a lot of you VW guys probably had similar experiences.