engine tin surround on firberfab speedster

folks,

i am new to this forum, it looks like a good one :-)

i am working on a customer's car, a fiberfab speedster into which we are putting a type IV engine with DTM upright cooling shroud.

i am a relative newb when it comes to this type of vehicle, although i am very familiar with aircooled VW's. what i am looking for is reference on what people have done with the sheet metal that surrounds the engine. the DTM kit comes complete with the engine tin itself, but the speedster has no sheet metal at all in the engine bay, so we have to fabricate. what have people done in the area? what are some treatments for the seal between the engine sealing tin and the tinwork attached to the chassis?

i have considered cutting an original VW chassis to get the main lower apron section, the benefits of this are you could then use the stock rubber seal, and the shape would be perfect. any other good ideas? photos?

one of the reasons we need a new engine in the speedster is because it was overheated due to a complete lack of sealing tin between the upper and lower sides of the engine. we also want more grunt, which the type IV will provide. we also want the tinwork to dress up the engine bay. thanks for any input.

scott lyons

www.germansupply.com/

Scott,

Talk to Jake Raby he is the Type IV Guy.

He reviews and will answer the Type IV questions.

Good Luck,

Jack Blake

jack,

i know jake pretty well. my company, www.germansupply.com is the canadian distributor for jake's DTM, and we recently hosted him up here in canada to demonstrate the DTM at a VW show. he is a great guy, and super knowledgeable, for sure, but here's the thing - the sealing issues for the DTM install are no different than what one would encounter when installing a typical upright type 1 engine into the speedster. for example, the speedster in question currently has a dual port 1600. aside from the engine shrouds themselves, there is no tinwork at all in the engine bay, just a crudely installed piece of fiberglass sheet to the rear of the engine, and some foiled fiberglass insulation on the sides. i was interested in seeing and discussing what people have done to seal and dress up the engine bay on a typical installation, the theory and applications for these type I engine installations will apply directly to the type IV DTM engine installation.

i was also wondering if anyone has already made a sheet metal kit for the sides and firewall of the fiberfab speedster. of course this sort of sheet metal work is relatively simple to fabricate, but if someone has already created a kit or templates it will save a lot of time, as making the patterns for the pieces to fit well is most of the work.

regards,

scott lyons

www.germansupply.com/

I had the same problem with my 84 IM. Mine had a 911 type shroud. I ended up using aluminum. The fitting was trial and error using a cardboard template. After I had all of the pieces sized correctly I had them powdercoated black.
Ron
Below is a picture of the black 'firewall'(the four bolts are for the remote oil cooler, which sits over the tranny).

ron,

that looks like a nice simple solution. your engine bay looks very nice and tidy, and i dig the mallory. the photo doesn't show the tin between the engine and the chassis, is that the aluminum you are speaking of? did you use a seal of some sort between the engine shroud and the chassis?

scott lyons

Scott:

I have a CMC and ended up doing precisely what Ron O'Black did;

Make up templates with paper or light cardboard so everything fits, then cut them out of either aluminum or HVAC sheetmetal sheets. I used 10-32 screws and tapped the holes, but you could easily use sheetmetal screws into the frame tubes and lockwashers under the heads.

I have pics if you need them (look under nichols1 in photos)

I was able to use the IM fiberglass panels at the side of the motor. I fabricated the rear (back of the car) panel out of aluminum. I ordered the rubber engine sealing gasket from IM.
Ron

The "H" engine seal gasket can also be use one from a VW bus It is about 2-1/2" across and 5/8" thick has a groove on either side that catched the engine tin and the installed fiberglass or aluminum body panel ......... About $15 Alan

those are some good ideas. i was looking around the IM site yesterday and noticed an "engine compartment panels and seal" in the parts section. what style of rubber seal is used in this kit?

does anyone know if the fiberfab engine bay is similar enough dimensionally to use the IM panels?

the bus foam seal is a good idea also, i will look at that. it will work well with the DTM tinwork, which has no return on the edge, so the foam seal will fit perfectly onto the edge.

thanks for the input, gentlemen.

scott lyons
germansupply.com

My JPS has a type 4 with a vertical fiberglass cooling shroud by "Raceware". Car was delivered with no tin between the firewall and cylinders 1 and 3. The rest of the tin was just trimmed to match the shroud with no seal.
I have since remade the tin twice. The last time using brushed aluminum for a nice "German" look. I also added a rubber gasket riveted and siliconed all around the shroud. Now my cut aluminum has at least some semblence of a seal. I also filled the voids at the firewall. Further I added the large H foam bus tight around the pulley. Get minimum leakage. I have no cooling problems cruising at 75 MPH more like this thing never gets warm!).
If I ever make tin again, I will first glass a horizontal surface about one inch wide all the way around the vertical shroud, horizontal with the surrounding sub frame. This would give a solid base to mount either solid mount the tin, with a stock tin-to-tin type seal farther outboard, or just mount the stock seal directly to the shroud.

david,

that sounds very good. is the raceware shroud the one that has the alternator in the center and slightly resembles a 4-cam shroud in shape? i have only ever seen those in photos, and in the pictures i have seen you can never see the lower part of the shroud, so i am not familiar with how it looks where it meets the chassis. but in any case it is critical to seal this area properly or you will never get the cooling system to work properly, regardless of what type of shroud you are using.

scott lyons
germansupply.com

I made some sheet aluminium panels with ribs for the firewall, sides and back of the engine compartment. For the seal between the engine tin and the engine compartment I made 3 sections, one for either side of the engine and a curved rear panel. They all had the rolled channel in the edge so you could fit the original Type 1 rubber seal.

peter,

wow, that looks really good.

would you have any other photos you could pmail me? i would really like to see the treatment you did on the lower sections, especially the use of the stock seal.

my email address is slyons@germansupply.com

scott lyons

Like Tim the Toolman says, "you can never have too many tools (or horsepower)!"

Sounds great ......"you can never have too many tools (or horsepower)!"
Over the past year, I built two almost identical 1,400lb
'23 T' Bucket Roasters with "Chebby" 355 small blocks pumped up to 335 HP. The HP to weight ratio tells the real deal.
Wheel stands concerned me just a wee bit particualy at traffic lights, it tended to drift hard to the right or left .......depending on the crown of the road..... "body english" didn't do much for the cause and the view of the roadway a head was rather limited!

AWW . . just thinking about it . . . A vehicle that weighs about the same as a speedster but with Chebby V8 power. Probably has those 12 inch wide Micky Thompsons on the back too. Like a .357 Magnum, be sure its aimed in the right direction before you "pull the trigger"!