Excellence Sept,2003 issue

I'm new to your group,and I am investigating the options of a speedster replicas. Would anyone care to comment on this article? They talk about this featured IM car with a tubular frame without using a VW floorplan. I thought the Beck product has the tubluar steel frame, and all of the others including IM use a VW floor pan. What's right? Any help and comment to keep me straight will be appreciated.

All cars are built with a Steel Frame. Vintage and JPS use a VW pan with a steel frame mounted to it. IM and Beck use an entirely steel frame, no VW pan.
-=theron
(Message Edited 9/16/2003 3:59:08 PM)

The confusion has possibly come from the fact that IM didn't always manufacture "from scratch."

Early on they also used the refurbished VW pans.


And now some guys who aren't "newbies" will post with the exact date and time when IM stopped using the VW pans....

George?

Mike, did you work ATC for the FAA?

Jim

The exact date was....dammed if I know.
Ron
Okay, the earliest I've heard off/seen is late 1984. I think that Brian from Waaaayyy up north has an 84 tube car (which is weird, because mind is an 84 too, but a pan car.

Iv'e got a 83 pan frame with interm. markings on hinges etc.
and a data plate on drivers door jam that reads "manufactured for
so+so, special custom blah blah blah by cmc.
---------What do I have?------------

The IM is just sold (a month ago) sounded exactly like Bruce's. '83 IM with a pan, and IM markings.

Dave

Mike, now go find an August 2003 issue and look at the 911-4 engine

Mike,
I've yet to drive a tube-framed replica so I can't hazzard a guess as to that advantage/disadvantage. One thing that has permeated this forum is the 'mine is better' syndrome.

All the makers are capable of building you a fine car. It has been my experience through ownership and attending shows and meets of late, that you have to work a little harder, stay vigilant a bit more and be prepared to say," No, that's not good enough!" with some builderzzz, while others are willing to go the extra mile, willingly, and it isn't predicated neccessarily as long as your wallet permits!

My take on the Excellence mag article was this; they like Porsches, they live Porsches. In the old days 356 owners had to deal with snide remarks that our Porsches were nothin' but glorified VWs (right, wrong or indifferent) The Intermeccanica replica is less VW, so the article was 'safe' to put in their magazine.

I've now seen Dale's speedster and uh, names, names, names...Shit, anyway, the dude with the ivory-colored Intermeccanica convertible 'D' and they are both exceptional. Rick Antunnes has an equally exceptional Vintage, but he had to work the phone lines and Kirk's ass-off to get the car the way he wanted. At the kit-car show a few weeks back, two JPS speedsters (also pan-based) were outstanding enough to gleen an award for John Steele, the manufacturererererer.

Does Rick's car belong in Excellence magazine? Do any of John Steele's offerings, sure, they look like Porsches just like an IM, but the aforementioned cars have more of a VW heritage and I think that is a tough sell for some Porsche folks.
My buck seventy-five's worth
MM

(Message Edited 9/17/2003 11:34:34 AM)

My thoughts on Porsche "people". We just had a big car show here a few weeks ago and I brought my JPS. Well, it got lots of oh's and ah's and at one point an elderly couple walked up and we started talking about the car. They were Porsche people, have several of them, a 911, a 944 and some o ther one. Anyway we had a nice chat and they invited me to join the Southern Oregon Porsche club on a tour coming up to Crater Lake. I said I'd be glad to tag along. They gave me the e mail address of the local club president so I dropped him a line saying I'd like to tag along if that was OK. I mentioned the members name that had invited me. Well, he blew me off like I was some
dude driving a DKW. He said you had to drive a REAL Porsche to be included. I know that isn't true as there have been a number of posts lately about attending PCA events. My point is I guess there are nice people and there are bores in every club I've ever been in. I mentioned to him that I may buy a Porsche someday but if I did I wouldn't join his PCA chapter as long as he was in Charge, got no response from that.

Bruce

I just got this months

Bruce and Stan:

One thing I miss now that I no longer have an old British sports car is belonging to a local club and going to swap meets and car shows. As soon as I sold my TR6 and bought my .....miata....., I lost that sense of community that I had had for many years.

Now having a roadster (it's not even a 'Speedster'), where do I belong? It's not a Porsche, it's not a Volkswagen, it's an orphan, and my only friends are you guys. What a sad life I live ;-(

Seriously, I have been to a few car shows since buying the roadster, but as much as I like 57 Chevys and customized rods, the fit isn't there. I am planning on going to a major British car show this weekend, and maybe I'll disguise my roadster as an old Austin. I might try the local Porsche club someday, but you need a really good disguise to fool them.

Maybe that's it. If I had removable (but not magnetic, of course) badging on my car, my problem would be solved. One week a British Union Jack, with Austin badges; the next week, the German flag, with Porsche badges; the next week....

RJC

Bob, try to fake some electrical problems while you're with your british car friends. That should fool 'em.
ed

LOL, Ed !!! Good one, years ago I had a '64 Triumph Spitfire which I enjoyed - if and when it decided to START! I can relate to that remark.

There was a guy in my area who was restoring a lotus something or other in his garage. The electrical system shorted out and burned downhalf of his house.
ed

Robert, go ahead and enter the British Car Show. Tell them it is a replica of what a British car would be if Germany had won WWII.They both leak a little oil, nobody has roll up windows but you my friend have an electrical system that works. You might also try " I'm here to supply 12volt electrical power for the show"

Pauly,
Thanks for the compliment on Old Yella! I think it belongs more in Popular Mechanics in the "how-to" section on where to put the missing washers... (O: (LO"Real"L).
I also think that Exceleeeeeeeeeeeeence would self ignite if they ever featured a Phat-(V)S Speedster in there but I really don't care. The essence of these cars is fully captured in events such as the now famous N-Cal Tour Du Vin (O:
2HOTUB
(Message Edited 9/18/2003 10:44:01 AM)

Quite spending your hard earned bucks on Excellence as they (porsche
people) don't look at replica's as anything more than a low cost
wanna-be.Try HotVW's.More useable info in it for VW based cars.
Hell,I own two Porsches and don't even have a yuppie Porsche hat or
his and hers Porsche sweaters. You know ,the white ones with blue
and red bands on the sleaves!I don't think I would mix well with this
group as thy don't see the advantage of a small block chevy in one
of they're beloved cars.
Jim

My feelings exactly Jim!
Just the name of the magazine is pretentious. I once gutted a Jag XJ12L and installed a Chevy 350 with my brother. Speed, realiability and luxury. The Jaguar Snobs always gave me a bad time about it.

I don't mix well with people who think pedigrees are everything.
-=theron

I have had numerous newer 911 drivers and two or three supposed authentic Speedster owners approach my car with certainty that my flared tub is the real deal, I let them go on with their beliefs and take their complements and only tell them the facts about my car when asked directly. It is the wave thing that throws me, some Porsche Guys wave, some do not but in reality I do not really give a hoot.

The real barnburners for me are the egoists in their second hand Boxsters that portray a Porsche Piety that demands that they scoff at our distinct cars as if they were junk heaps, To me a Boxster is a bigger fake then our cars, but that is just my opinion and I certainly hope I did not offend anyone by my remarks.

Interesting comments and sentiment building here... Being a Porsche owner and a Vintage owner I find I enjoy the company I keep with this forum and this car club... Now maybe I haven't given my affiliation with the local Porsche club time to mature and mellow, and maybe it is as it was written in the 'Richest Man in Babylon'

... a young man, disapointed with his lot in life journeys to a new town and fresh start. He encounters an old man coming from the young man's destination. He asks the old man, " what sort of people will I meet in this new place?"

the old man replies, " what sort of people did you know in your last place?"

A horrible job of paraphrasing, but a lot of times we get what we expect. Rick, can you see Jim drueling over a Popular mechaniczzz centerfold of your car? Just kidding... wax on, wack off!
MM

Some guys get it; some guys don't.
John Steele and I met several "real" Speedster owners at the "Hangover Run" last New Year's Day in Malibu. They were all very complimentary about our cars and invited us to join them on their monthly drives to hook up with the Santa Barbara Porsche Club members at the Camarillo Airport for breakfast. We arrived in a caravan of two "real" 356s and three JPS Speedsters. There were at least 60 Porsches there - from Cayennes to Carreras to Boxsters to 356s.
Basically, several SBPC members came up and asked all sorts of questions about the replicas (components? cost? etc.) and, I believe, were genuinely impressed with the authenticity and practicality of our cars. (The idea of having a Speedster that's reliable and daily-driveable is pretty appealing to any Porsche fan.)
And, naturally, there were others who wouldn't even talk to us, presumably because we "didn't belong," not having the authentic credentials to be a part of such an exclusive fraternity.
There are "snobs" in every group you can name. It's been my experience that these people are missing out on a lot of things in life, which is kind of sad.

Having owned a 994S for many years now I've also experienced a whole lot of the "that's not a real Porsche" attitude from the "snobs" at the few events I've attended.
But I think you all will agree that the dentists and surgeons who own the newest, coolest, most "real" 911's are the same guys who spin them into the fences in the first turn of a slalom run.

I tend to believe, true car guys will ogle or give the once over to just about anything that is a unique and motorized, most cars guys are happy to meet with other car guys no matter what their brand affiliation might be and over all car guys are good people.

Someone buying a car just because of a brand name is so not cool. All the snobby Excellence readers like that should wake up! We

You know something? Other than a little infighting between the real steel guys and the Gibbons/Outlaw et-al boys, I have never heard of a glass 32 Highboy refered to as a kit, or even a replica.

I agree with these posts.... and you are right, if it takes driving a beater 914 to be member, then to heck with it... it aint allll THAT fancy.

Jim Ward

Chris,

I tried to send you an e-mail off-line but it bounced. Is it correct in your registration - cscafario@yahoo.com?

Hi folks,

Your points of view on this topic are really interesting.

I am in the process of trying to sell my wife's '02 Jag 3.0 X-Type to open up a space to purchase an IM Convertible D. Why an IM Conv. D, or any Speedster type maker for that matter? Tell me another car manufacturer we can work with while they build your car to your specs. This is a great advantage. Two years ago, we had a swimming pool built and we were intimately involved in the constuction process. Now we have one of the nicest pools I have ever seen. It's all about relationships and communication. As for the PCA, I am a member, owning 6 Porsches over 15 years, including a Boxster that's my wife's daily driver. Sure some folks in PCA are jerks, but I love the mag. I also own a one-owner, 1957 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Spider that is one of the finest there is, and am NOT a member of the Alfa Romeo Owner's Club anymore because of the incredible number of A$$holes in it, especially in the Atlanta area. Alfas are great cars but their owners can be worse than Porsche owners for some reason...maybe they have Porsche/Ferrari envy.

Larry,

I agree with your post about there being prima donna's in most clubs. About the only club I've been in that doesn't have any that I've run across, and I've been a member since 78 is the Studebaker Drivers club. Yes, you can say that they don't have anything to be snooty about but that is besides the point. The only observation I have of the Stude group is that they almost without exception, very cheap. Maybe that is why they like Studes. It seems to me that most of the snooty clubs are European car clubs, although I was a member of the Austin Healey club but that was in the 60's and they were a group of nice people. That has probably changed now. I think this group we are in is the most knowledgeble and entertaining I have run across, nothing gets by them. Bruce

Larry,
There are actually a lot of limited production car builders who will work with you to produce the car of your dreams. This is not a phenomenon unique to replica Speedsters and Roadsters. Companies like Specialty Autoworks in Knoxville has made a business for 20+ years building street rods, Porsche Speedsters and exotics for many happy customers, some of whom are repeaters. I think that these companies would not survive long if they did not have strong customer support based upon good communication as well as good products. What makes customers happy is what good business is all about, or at least should be.

On another topic, my bride and I had an '86 Spyder Veloce which was beautiful, great fun, but a pile of crap in my estimation. We didn't have it long, but replacing universal joints at 11K miles, you gotta be kidding me. The body build quality looked primitive and living in a rust belt state at the time, I'm glad we didn't have it long enough to suffer what I felt would be the inevitable results.
just my 2 lire
John H
the Tennessee trubador and gondolier driver
oh sol o mio........!!!