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exhaust... again

Stan GalatStan Galat
OK, so I've been putting off a new exhaust for over a year. I've got a mild 1776 w/ dual ICTs. JPS built the car with the Monza exhaust, with the duals cut off and chrome tailpipes welded in place. It looks and sounds great, but is pretty restrictive, even for the engine I've got, and would be totally unsuitable for anything larger. Last fall I got the VW header, collector, dual outlet, genuine Mexican VW exhaust that CIP sells, and
Kirk is now putting on his cars. I like the idea, and the cost ($60), appealed to my inner tightwad. The problem is- it has got to be the most poorly made part I have ever seen. It is cheap, and built to fit that way.

I decided yesterday to buy a CSP 1-1/2 exhaust. The non-stainless model was about $400 the last time I checked. The last time I checked the exchange rate with the euro was about $1.09= 1 euro. It's now $1.29. CSP is only stocking the stainless model now, and is selling them for $700- $200 for 1-1/2" heater boxes. By the time I weld the flanges on the exhaust for the heater boxes, weld the bung in for the O2 sensor (that I dont have yet), send the exhaust back to CA to be ceramic coated- I'll have just about as much in the exhaust as the entire engine cost. I just can't spend $1200 for exhaust.

If I spend that kind of money, I want perfection. My engine is a mild build now, but if I want a 2110 some day, I'd like the header to be big enough for it. EVERYthing I read tells me 1-1/2" isn't enough for over 2 liters. I'd be happy with 1-1/2"- for $700 (total), but not twice that.

I tried Kymco- they had a decent 1-3/8 thing header in their add the last time they had an ad. They have their own headers made locally, and are reported to have decent build quality. I ordered one in November, and asked for no heat risers, and ceramic coating. I called last night- still no headers (they may never have them and "forget about custom").

My question is this- what are my other options? 1-3/8 is fine for my motor, but I don't want to spend more than $350 on it. 1-1/2 would be fine, if I could get out for $660.

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Stan GalatStan Galat
OK, so I've been putting off a new exhaust for over a year. I've got a mild 1776 w/ dual ICTs. JPS built the car with the Monza exhaust, with the duals cut off and chrome tailpipes welded in place. It looks and sounds great, but is pretty restrictive, even for the engine I've got, and would be totally unsuitable for anything larger. Last fall I got the VW header, collector, dual outlet, genuine Mexican VW exhaust that CIP sells, and
Kirk is now putting on his cars. I like the idea, and the cost ($60), appealed to my inner tightwad. The problem is- it has got to be the most poorly made part I have ever seen. It is cheap, and built to fit that way.

I decided yesterday to buy a CSP 1-1/2 exhaust. The non-stainless model was about $400 the last time I checked. The last time I checked the exchange rate with the euro was about $1.09= 1 euro. It's now $1.29. CSP is only stocking the stainless model now, and is selling them for $700- $200 for 1-1/2" heater boxes. By the time I weld the flanges on the exhaust for the heater boxes, weld the bung in for the O2 sensor (that I dont have yet), send the exhaust back to CA to be ceramic coated- I'll have just about as much in the exhaust as the entire engine cost. I just can't spend $1200 for exhaust.

If I spend that kind of money, I want perfection. My engine is a mild build now, but if I want a 2110 some day, I'd like the header to be big enough for it. EVERYthing I read tells me 1-1/2" isn't enough for over 2 liters. I'd be happy with 1-1/2"- for $700 (total), but not twice that.

I tried Kymco- they had a decent 1-3/8 thing header in their add the last time they had an ad. They have their own headers made locally, and are reported to have decent build quality. I ordered one in November, and asked for no heat risers, and ceramic coating. I called last night- still no headers (they may never have them and "forget about custom").

My question is this- what are my other options? 1-3/8 is fine for my motor, but I don't want to spend more than $350 on it. 1-1/2 would be fine, if I could get out for $660.
Alan MerklinAlan MerklinDrclock - Elkins, West Virginia Supporting Member
This post will surely bring a few replies but this is what I use and it works well!
When you get this $80.00 set up from J.C. Whitney it has a flat black paint
on it, I scuff it off using a 3m Scotch Brite pad and hit it with high temp rattle can black. Then lightly...pass over the painted area with a propane torch to "bake" the high temp paint.
.
JC Whitney... Go to www.jcwhitney.com and enter the part numbers

Made for a Beetle T-1....NO modifications are needed to fit a Speedster...it's a simple 30 minute bolt up process!!

"Hide-out" muffler kit(AHBO17684T)$39.95 and 4 into 1 extractor(AHB83950SR)$39.99
The free flow muffler tucks up under the right rear wheel well.... even the factory attached support bracket happens to be in the correct location to be bolted to the 2x2 frame rail!
This set up is hidden from view, sounds good w/o being too loud.

Alan
FM Former Member
Stan I can feel your pain. Any exhaust you get is going to be a compromise either for the 1776, or for the 2110. First decide what way you want to compromise. I did the same and came up with a Kymco 1 1/2" Thing header Which still needs a tail pipe and mufflers. There are several options at this point, the one I chose was to use a larger pipe and free flow mufflers. But like I said before you're trying to keep one foot on the dock and one foot on the boat. You can see my solution in my file under Eddie. Eddie
WideRidezzzWideRidezzz
After 'exhaustive' research, ouch, I saw a similar train of thought between the conservative mechanic and the power-builders.Exhaust can be too big.
Exhaust has to want to rush out the back, be sucked along, anxious to be expelled. Bigger diameter piping and exhaust, like teenage boys with nothin' to do, tends to hang out and doesn't have that same sense of urgency...

I got the sense that 11/2" was a good fit for both 1776 and 2110. The configuration and length of the tubing is the critical element both in performance and price. That's where we wind up paying the premium price; the guys that have the bends in the right places know it and sell it priced accordingly.

Ron ORon O1984/2010 IM, B.C. Canada
You could also consider the BAS exhaust system, which looks very similar to the CSP system. They also sell 1 1/2" flanged heater boxes. Don't know the prices. They may have stock in the U.S.
I'm not an expert, but from what I've read/heard a 1 1/2" system is good up to a very heathly 2110. I have a fairly hot 2110 and I went with a custom 1 5/8" system. In reality, I doubt I would have noticed any difference if I had installed a 1 1/2" system. Maybe at the top end (6000+ rpm), but how often do we go there?
Ron

Try Volks Authority (California) at: www.volksauthority.com/
D DavesD
I would recommend ordering a 1 5/8" system from A1.
I paid $500.00 for my system - this included an O2 sensor bung welded in.
If you need heat, you can order 1 5/8" heater boxes from Gene Berg.
To save money on coating, order you system unpainted - use Black Velvet paint - it's kind of expensive -$16.00/pint, applied with a Preval sprayer kit.
To prep it for painting - dress the system with a scotchbrite pad, then wipe it down twice with lacquer thinner, hang it up with coat hangers - apply one coat, wait 24 hours, and apply a second coat.
Black Velvet neeeds to be thinned 10% - you can use naptha to thin.
Stan GalatStan Galat
Eddie,
I want what you've got- if Kymco could even ACT like they cared if I bought an exhaust from them, I'd do it in a heart-beat. I'd love the 1-1/2" thing header, but it's custom, and I can't even buy a standard 1-3/8" thing header. I could get exhaust built locally w/o problem, and the 1-1/2" primaries would work well for a 1776, up to a mild stroker (in the 2 liter neighborhood. I'm in IL, Kymco is in CA, and the advice was "stop in and check every once in a while". Well, next time I'm through....

Ron,
I was under the impression that the CSP exhaust WAS the BAS exhaust. The Volks Authority website is something- they conveinantly cut off the phone number in the top box. I emailed them- we'll see.

David,
Re: A1- I tried a websearch for A1 exhaust- I couldn't find anything. Do you have a good web adress? I'd love to check it out...

Thanks for the suggestions- please keep them coming. I'd like a nice 1-1/2" header that wasn't $700. I'd live with a 1-3/8" for the 1776 if it were cheap enough, but I'd like the 1-1/2" and just to be done with it.
FM Former Member
Alan,
Does the J.C.Whit header hang below the rear body panel? (Can you see it from behind the car?)
Or is it one like Vintage uses for "Things" that has tighter radius tubing, making the whole system even with the bottom of the engine case, so it doesn't hang down below the rear body panel.

It's hard to tell from the J.C.Whitney catalog pics.

Thanks,
Greg B.
FM Former Member
Gordon, Berg does have heater boxes, all the way to 2" I believe, but they are something like $650.00 for a pair. I guess if you want heat and also want a large diameter exhaust, that is your only option so pay the money. I am having a tough time with that and am looking for other solutions. Other than heated seats I haven't come up with anything yet.
FM Former Member
Stan, I would be less than truthful if I told you I remembered. When I had my system built I first bought a bug header coated with bung, and realized it wasn't going to fit. It was then I realized I didn't have too many options. So I decided to get exactly what I wanted. Kymco hadn't built a 1 1/2' thing header yet and it took two tries, but good things come to those who are patient and spend lots of money. I think the header with the boxes was $499 coated. the mufflers were $70 each and the custom tailpipe was $300 with coating, so I guess about $1000. Eddie
FM Former Member
hi guys, just to let you know---i contacted a welder [who currently
does vw turbo headers etc..] and have sent him some "sidewinder"
type pics for his perusal. he said 1.5", 1 5/8", chromed or painted
your choice. This question comes up all the time, i'm surprised
none of the "builders" have mocked up a "speedster header". My
concerns [i think are typical] are ground clearence, rear body clearence,quality and fit[slip joints for different widths]. I don't know if its available but if it is...is anyone interested in a "group rate" price? its worth a try.----bruce
ps-i like the "sidewinder style" as it opens up your choices for
mufflers.
Stan GalatStan Galat
Ron O,
I contacted Volks Authority- $600, mild steel, $180 for the 1-1/2" boxes- I weld the flanges on the header, the bung for the O2 sensor, and then ship back to CA for ceramic coating (since I can't find anyone here...). It's pretty much the same price as CSP for something "OK".

Bruce,
The sidewinder type header seems to make the most sense to me. There are a LOT of muffler options if you aren't making an immediate hard bend out of the collector. I think a V8 camaro muffler would be just about perfect. I'm interested- please get a price.
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