Exhaust -ed!

@Safety Jim Buffalo NY. posted:

Can I install a stock muffler with out doing damage or losing too much HP?

No.

@Safety Jim Buffalo NY. posted:

Or is there and alternative set up that looks original but allows better flow?

Yes.

Check out the Vintage Speed website.

You sound like a perfect candidate for an SS143 in either 38 mm (1-1/2") or 43 mm (1-5/8"). Alternatively, perhaps a 130 mm Super Flow (assuming you shut it down at 5500 RPM).

At the very least you'll be limiting power output and may even cause the engine to run hot.  For the best drivability the exhaust must be matched to the carbs/heads and powerband.  With stock valve heads a 1 3/8" (optimal for best bottom end/lower midrange power) or 1 1/2" (if you really like to feel the top end! but drivability and hence mileage will suffer a wee bit) will be best.  With big valve (40x35 mm) heads 1 1/2" primaries are the best choice.  I would wager that a 1 5/8" system is too big unless the engine makes power to 7500 or 8,000 rpm. What cam/rocker combo is in it?  And I don't offhand know what this translates to with the Vintage Speed exhausts Stan's talking about.  Al

Stan & alb: Thanks so much. This is the motor as listed by CB.  110 HP.  So, it looks like the, "Sporty"  130mm sport 38mm should do it per Stan's recomendation.  I will look into that one. I wish they published average decibel readings at idle and various RPM's. That data would be pertinant to this decision.... 

   Thanks again!   Jim

CB Perf Builders Choice.

Jim, the 1776 motor I built has almost identical specs to yours and I run the VS "Sporty" 130mm sport 38mm exhaust. I haven't seen overheating and it pulls very strongly past 5500 rpm.

The tone is throaty, but not anywhere near as loud the Tri-mill that came with the car. Marianne and I can have comfortable conversations while driving down the highway.

Just another data point.

Good to read your posts Jim, and good pun ... best of luck on finishing this up.

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Jim, here's the Vintage Speed I went with - 1.5", Superflow. I have a pretty mild 2 liter (that I estimate to be around 120 hp).

The sound is pretty close to stock 356. Here's a short video:

Thanks again to all of you!  Alb, Stan and Sacto, I ordered the SS143 with 130mm sport 38mm from vintage speed.  They have a great site with plenty of video & audio and specs. And, thanks to Sacto for the video he sent.  Right now I can drive it. However, it is not enjoyable at the sound level produced.  Why would EMPI make a nice looking stainless muffler that is missing the baffles and sound deadening materials inside?  So, annoying!

Ray in Canada!  Thanks for chiming in. So good to hear you are up there surviving this crazy year!  I hope the border opens soon and we can all have a real get-together again!

P.S. Since I have the new exhaust coming in, I may open the EMPI stainless and see if I can, "glass pack" it. Or, fill with #4 course stainless steel wool to see how that sounds. It may be used on another project. (1600cc in a Karman Ghia may be in my future.)

Jim

I would love a sound as quiet as Mitch's on my car (like, there is NO WAY I can ever hear the whine of the fan), but I'm wondering how much power I would lose going from a noisy Berg extractor to, essentially, a stock 356-style muffler and lots less noise.  I'm guessing 10% - 15% but only guessing and also guessing that the power loss would be at 5 grand and above.

Still, to ride without a constant drone would be really, really nice.  Given that, I suppose I would just complain about wind noise.....  

Not sure how much you would lose but on my original IM I had one muffler per side which was called the most quiet version of a muffler that they were supplying if that’s any help to you ... 2110cc

Jim, glad to hear from you and happy the motor is running well. Sounds like you made good choices, and this new exhaust should finish it off.

Thread drift/story:

At work we had a guy named Ed, who had stuff written about him on bathroom walls. Nothing bad, but he drilled through a wall into a customer's electric panel. He was shocked slightly but generally unharmed, company paid to fix said electric panel. Thereafter he was known as Sparky. But on the bathroom walls were written things like "Spark-Ed", basically any words that described him with an "ed" at the end. It was pretty funny to read as more and more were added LOL! Thanks for the comedic reminder, Jim.

Jim, I have passed on a lot of KGhia' for two reasons, they want stupid money for junk that is bondoed up to the ears ....

So no matter what you buy you have to have a full pan off restoration which would be needed unless of course someone has already done it.  I know @Rich Drewek has a beauty that he totally restored in red with full suspension upgrades that is awesome.  

Hi all you guys! I’m still alive and kicking. My ears were ringing from an alert posted to me. Ray was once again trying ti help me sell the Ghia which is just collecting dust. I really need a fair offer to cover a couple of bathroom tile jobs on the new house.

The world is ready for a fiberglass KG body. Really, really ready.

@Stan Galat posted:

The world is ready for a fiberglass KG body. Really, really ready.

On a tube frame with Suby power.  Mmmm...

You guys have me kind of salivating at the idea of a Ghia with subaru power on a new chassis and all kinds of upgrades.   I have done a bunch (4) VW body off restorations and have always made out pretty well when the sale time came. I like to be sure things are running and work like new or as close as I can come.  I do the interior and the body work. The engine work is always new with jugs/pistons and outward or more inside if needed.  The idea of a F/glass body is awesome!   So, who is game to start making molds? 

PS.  After a 10 mile drive on the new motor today, I found a small puddle in the garage and a little trail of oil dots up my driveway.  So, I cleaned up underneath to find the culprit and I could not locate an ongoing leak.  Starting the motor, crawling underneath and voila! The oil was dripping from the very near the pully.  I shined a light inside the compartment and saw a running drizzle coming out of the dipstick tube cover.  Ugh!  Now I started looking at the, "recommended" airbox plumbing and found that there was no vent from the airbox. I drilled the right carb cover and tapped it for a fitting. Ran a hose from the airbox to the carb cover and, no more leaks!  Wow, so simple but easy to overlook.

Jim

Ghias are second to the 356 shape but it would be pretty cool to have a convert or coupe in FG

Just got my exhaust today. Can wait to fire it up.

NICE! Is that a Gene Berg breather on the stock filler/alternator stand?

No, Kaddie shack sells them.

Very cool. It looks like an exact copy of the Berg unit. I just cleaned one up and re-installed it on a motor I just rebuilt.

I see you have crossbar linkage, as does the motor I just did. It's funny, Berg says this breather won't work with crossbar linkage. It does work, you just have to be careful and make sure there is no interference.

That exhaust looks great!  Nice looking motor!

@DannyP posted:

Very cool. It looks like an exact copy of the Berg unit. I just cleaned one up and re-installed it on a motor I just rebuilt.

Looks like a Gen stand that’s been modified to take a 2 bolt 356/912-style oil filter as opposed to the screw in Type 1 type. I found one in a box of spare 912 tin right after I bought a CB angled filler to use with my shroud update.

@JB356SR posted:

Just got my exhaust today. Can wait to fire it up.

Wow! That was quick; where did you order to get it in two days? I ordered mine from aircooled.net and it got to me all the way from the Vintage Speed shop in Taiwan in a couple of weeks. They are very well made units and you will be happy with it. It's quieter than people think; never as loud as the Tri-Mil units.

@Impala posted:

Wow! That was quick; where did you order to get it in two days? I ordered mine from aircooled.net and it got to me all the way from the Vintage Speed shop in Taiwan in a couple of weeks. They are very well made units and you will be happy with it. It's quieter than people think; never as loud as the Tri-Mil units.

I ordered it directly from Vintage Speed. I got it in 2 weeks

How did the VS sport exhaust turn out?   Can you post a video with the sound?

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@MarylandGuy , if you scroll up in this thread a bit, to here , I've posted a video of my VS exhaust on a 2-liter type 1.

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@Sacto Mitch sounds really good with the superflow.  For my 1776 the sport will probably work best and is supposed to be a little quieter so I wanted to hear that too. 

Here is a video I found of a 356a which would be the ultimate goal but not just an exhaust fix. 

https://youtu.be/GJRAnbFn1kE

@MarylandGuy posted:

@Sacto Mitch sounds really good with the superflow.  For my 1776 the sport will probably work best and is supposed to be a little quieter so I wanted to hear that too.

Hey, I've got a 1776 with the superflow sport. Here's a video from a year ago with my wife complaining about my driving. We like it. Conversations at 55 mph are fine, but it sounds sporty. We dumped the TriMil for this one.

Fuel Injection and Electronic Ignition for VW engines - Speeduino Style | SpeedsterOwners.com - 356 Speedsters, 550 Spyders, Replicas and more

Thanks Michael.  Is yours the superflow or the sport from Vintage Speed?  Sounds really smooth.  Below is a link to a video of my 1776 dual carb so you can hear the sound after a cold start.  My issue may not actually be the exhaust.  The engine has this whistle/whine sound that really comes out too.  Could be from some of the upgrades we did, but not sure.

https://youtu.be/XcA3aS3VUTE

Let me know what you guys think.

No need to worry; the whine is the normal fan whine. The engine is a little shaky; it needs a little bit more tweaking. Pointer: when actuating the throttle try to grab the linkage bar at the center instead of actuating it at any of the carburetors.

Thanks @Impala.  The engine definitely does still have some shake to it when idling.  I'm at about 500 miles.  Had adjusted the carbs mix and throttle at about 200 miles and thought we had it smoother, so maybe they just need to be dialed in more. 

So you think the sound fix is going to be the exhaust replacement?   My recording was close up with the lid open.   If I step away, that whine isn't as noticeable and it does seem to be more on the exhaust that is making the Harley sound. 

The whine is definitely the normal fan whine; you even hear it in the old stock cars. Combined with the pea shoooters it's part of the normal "fweem" in aircooled VWs.

@MarylandGuy, it's the sport exhaust. Part number 155-204-05200.

I agree with @Impala, the whine is normal. It is a bit rough at idle, but that might just be because the engine hasn't warmed up yet.

Pricey, but it "sounds" like 155-204-05200 is the right one for my build to address the loudness and get closer to a Porsche sound. 

Paul, keep in mind you have small cam in that 1776 and it "presents"  a bit at idle.  Looks like your fan belt has stretched a bit  /  loose too .... take one shim out between the pulley sections to tighten it up a little, pushing on the belt with your finger you should have 1/2" deflection.

Doesn't seem to be more than 1/2" deflection when I press on the belt.  Maybe it was because in the video I was running it cold?  I'll check it again tomorrow. 

I tweaked the idles a little and it smoothed out the shakes... I need to get an air flow meter to keep it set right.   Madness fully set in at this point.

I placed the order for the VS 155-204-05200...  Hopefully it doesn't take too long to get here so I can see how this puppy sounds.   I will keep everyone posted and create another video comparing my before and after when I get it.  Thanks again for the advice and videos. 

If you have a Facebook account you might try to see if aircooled.net still has the offer in which if you give them a like in their Facebook page you get 20 or 25% discount on an order. They are a Vintage Speed dealer. I was lucky to take advantage of that offer and basically the shipping was free when all was said and done. Got it delivered about two weeks after ordering.

Oops, I spoke to soon; you already ordered. I believe I posted this suggestion earlier in this thread. Hope you caught it. Either way you’re going to be pleased. It looks the part, is quieter than the Tri-Mil (although I don’t dislike their throaty sound) and will very possibly be the last exhaust system you buy.

I did check the aircooled.net facebook page and didn't see any promotions for that for a few years.   I was able to get 5% off from the vintage speed facebook page, so all in the exhaust was $617 including the shipping fee.   

I plan to sell the Tri Mil to hopefully get a few bucks to offset the cost. 

I think its the right call to go right to the final solution rather than waste time testing cheaper options... now just need to count down to when it arrives.